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Guest eyoismos

It isn't like some in Greece didn't forsee what was coming

but those guys were labeled "Conspiracy Theorists"

 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/aiOkmnwWa60

alleged prophesies ....by somebody who has tried to hook up with both pasok and ND, and who blames his woes on the media and others ... you know ... in typical greek political style - aka everybody else is at fault

 

not that some of the stuff he has come up with is off the mark. but then again many way over the top

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Guest eyoismos

πάντως εκείνο που με εξοργίζει ειναι ότι  μερικοί τώρα τα έχουν βάλει άγρια με τον ΑΡΚΑ

 

γιατί ;

 

επειδή .....

 

arkas4.jpg

 

Arkas1.jpg

 

arkas2.jpg

 

Arkas3.jpg

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Guest eyoismos

i was just reading the latest blog by paul krugman

 

Europe’s Moment of Truth

 

and i like what one of the comments that said

 

Problem 1: Greece borrowed money far in excess of what it could afford. Banks lent money they knew Greece could not repay, but realizing Europe would be their safeguard. Both parties were equally culpable: for every irresponsible borrower, there is an irresponsible lender. No amount of moralizing can repair this problem; it has happened and we have to live with it.

Problem 2: The Troika bailed out the banks. They did not bail out Greece. The Troika-imposed austerity eliminated any hope for growth, worsening the problems for the Greek economy. Banks should have suffered a severe haircut on their Greek loans. Greece needed investments, not austerity. Again, no amount of Monday-morning quarterbacking will solve this problem; it has happened and we have to live with it.

Problem 3: This is everybody's mess, and there is enough blame to go around. All seek a solution that validates their own prior bad decisions and shifts blame to others. All ignore the only problem that can still be solved: preventing Greece from becoming a failed state. This is not an economic problem; it is a political one, albeit with an enormous financial component.

If EU callously disregards the fate of a member country, it has become useless. We supported an overly bureaucratic and expensive EU, because we saw an integrated economy as a safeguard for peace and prosperity. If EU fails in the Greek crisis, it has lost its reason for existence.

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Guest PatrickT

The ECB right now has a meeting that will most likely decide to stop the ELA program. With that greek banks are finished. Its really interesting to see all this now. I only learned that procedure in theory so its amazing to see it going in reallife. 

 

A mistake gets corrected now that should have been corrected years ago. Basic fact is that greece never was a legitimate member of the € and the EU at all. The damage is done now and it is important to end it. The Euro without greece is stronger. The political and economical results will be positive.

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Guest PatrickT

Now its official, greece installs capital controls. Looks like the final collapse is near. 

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Guest

Greeks still don't get it. To fucking stupid to grasp the most basic of concepts. I'm ashamed to be part of this shithead nation.

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I thought you did not consider yourself Greek but Pontian. No need to worry about what us Greeks do then  :)

It's going to be a rough week. Let's see what's going to happen on Monday morning. Seems that banks are set to be closed for a week until the referendum is completed.

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Whatever happens during the coming week, the Greek government has fought until the last minute to defend democratic values and the rights of all european citizens. I am very proud to be Greek

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Partying it up on other peoples money is a democratic value huh?

 

The banks will open up again once the Drachmas are printed and then you guys can enjoy all the democratic values the Drachma can buy.

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Guest eyoismos

what i cant understand is why the EU as a whole has gone completely ape about a referendum, the ultimate of methods for citizens to decide their own fate

 

last time greece had one, was to decide if they should have a king or not

 

last time germany had one was in 2013 , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_energy_referendum,_2013, and that failed because of voter turnout - before that, 1955

 

****

 

and yet switzerland have them regularly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Referendums_in_Switzerland

 

ironically , their constitution was heavily based on what a greek came up with, ie. kapodistrias

 

even more ironic .... the very same is highly suspected (even convinced) of being murdered by European prompting

 

history repeating itself?

 

but the question remains ...why are the powers of europe pissed off with this undertaking?

 

three guesses  ...and if one doesnt get it with the first guess ....fuuuck are there some dumbasses around or what?

 

if greece decides to build "wooden walls" around "athens" ...their absolute right as a democracy

if greece decides to build "wooden ships" to protect "athens" .... their absolute right as a democracy

 

and fuck the european powers  if they cant handle it ... problem is ...its not europe that is pissed off, its europe's financial institutions

so fuck them too

 

we decide our fate and nobody else

 

and its actually about time ... for far too long greeks have had the mentality of ....everybody else is at faulty and not us

 

THIS is, possibly a new beginning, a beginning that is sorely, dare i say desperately,  needed ... to take our destiny BACK into out own hands

 

because history has repeatedly proven what it has, that nobody gives a flying fuck about us as a nation, and has done nothing but interfere over and over and over again

 

so yeah ... i agree with Jen

 

and whatever comes, comes

 

and any successes or failures will be on our own backs, and nobody elses

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Guest

 


eyo:

 

what i cant understand is why the EU as a whole has gone completely ape about a referendum, the ultimate of methods for citizens to decide their own fate

The Greek cognitive dissonance in all her glory!

You can't understand because you are a Greek after all. So let me explain it to you in a way even a Greek can understand:

 

You go to the bank and borrow 1 mil. When the time to make your payment arrives you call your Bank and tell them whether to make your payment or not depends on the outcome of a referendum among your family members. And at the same time you ask for an additional loan. You don't think the Bank has reason to go ape?

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Guest eyoismos

i liked what samaras said in parliament today ( today with a question mark as per ert online) - quite logical

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Guest eyoismos

The Greek cognitive dissonance in all her glory!

You can't understand because you are a Greek after all. So let me explain it to you in a way even a Greek can understand:

 

You go to the bank and borrow 1 mil. When the time to make your payment arrives you call your Bank and tell them whether to make your payment or not depends on the outcome of a referendum among your family members. And at the same time you ask for an additional loan. You don't think the Bank has reason to go ape?

 

and the bank is obviously innocent of giving bad loans, right?

 

like i said before, if there are irresponsible borrowers, then there are also irresponsible lenders ... so if the lenders hurt ... fuck them ... just as much as they effectively are trying to fuck the borrowers, borrowers i would say that lived for far too long in cocoons that they decided to enclose themselves in, rightly or wrongly  .... BOTH must pay the price

 

but that is irrespective of the core question, considering that loans where taken on behalf of the family by "the usual suspects" and what they might have thought ...and often kept in the dark - and when the shit his the fan, all of a sudden a whole lot of truths, half truths and lies surface, often violently, to the top of the "game"... and those led by the nose for so long in their selective ignorance have now having to deal with the continuous slap in the face ...but so are the instigators of doing the slapping

 

however, having a referendum, something the the greek perception of reality have consistently and historically treated like a disease, is sorely needed and required as a start to new beginnings.... thus taking away the very weapons ALL off the political elite of yesteryear, let alone now, lay the foundations of destroying the random triggers the very elite have used sooo often to the detriment of the nation

 

seems like you like to wear selective horse blinkers ...thus making your "Greek cognitive dissonance" null and void and irrelevant

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Guest eyoismos

I am about 98% sure this is the beginning of a default, and maybe this is what is needed, as painful as it will be.

 

Game over for all.

yes and no

 

just watched a q&a with schultz, president of the european parliament

 

amongst others he said , as i understood it, that the referendum is most definitely a legitimate and legal and ethical use of democracy , but by the same token, the EU has the right to state their case as well to the greek people in order for them to vote. and as such, he pretty much suggested that the vote be "yes" -

 

its all part of democracy ...no matter how painful that might be to those financial power brokers, who still think in medieval terms and fiefdoms under their thumb

 

if that doesnt give the finger to the banksters who got pissed off , i dont know what does

 

the referendum is definately ok, in fact i would go as far to say imperative and about fucking time ,,,,no matter how pissed off those who are against it, to whom i say fuck you

 

like i said before

 

if greece decides to build "wooden walls" around "athens" ...their absolute right as a democracy

if greece decides to build "wooden ships" to protect "athens" .... their absolute right as a democracy

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Guest PatrickT

what i cant understand is why the EU as a whole has gone completely ape about a referendum, the ultimate of methods for citizens to decide their own fate

 

last time greece had one, was to decide if they should have a king or not

 

last time germany had one was in 2013 , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_energy_referendum,_2013, and that failed because of voter turnout - before that, 1955

 

****

 

and yet switzerland have them regularly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Referendums_in_Switzerland

 

ironically , their constitution was heavily based on what a greek came up with, ie. kapodistrias

 

even more ironic .... the very same is highly suspected (even convinced) of being murdered by European prompting

 

history repeating itself?

 

but the question remains ...why are the powers of europe pissed off with this undertaking?

 

three guesses  ...and if one doesnt get it with the first guess ....fuuuck are there some dumbasses around or what?

 

if greece decides to build "wooden walls" around "athens" ...their absolute right as a democracy

if greece decides to build "wooden ships" to protect "athens" .... their absolute right as a democracy

 

and fuck the european powers  if they cant handle it ... problem is ...its not europe that is pissed off, its europe's financial institutions

so fuck them too

 

we decide our fate and nobody else

 

and its actually about time ... for far too long greeks have had the mentality of ....everybody else is at faulty and not us

 

THIS is, possibly a new beginning, a beginning that is sorely, dare i say desperately,  needed ... to take our destiny BACK into out own hands

 

because history has repeatedly proven what it has, that nobody gives a flying fuck about us as a nation, and has done nothing but interfere over and over and over again

 

so yeah ... i agree with Jen

 

and whatever comes, comes

 

and any successes or failures will be on our own backs, and nobody elses

 

 

Since when can greeks decide in a referendum what money germany pays them? The majority of germans wants greece crushed, trashed, foiled up and kicked out of the EU. That said bringing up an referendum now at the end is laughable and an insult. In case you don´t know our finance minister Schäuble said greece should do a referendum if it accepts the contract and stays in EU or vote aginst it and leave. Doing it now when time is up is an insult aginst evry single european nation. 

 

On a sidenote greece doesn´t have the power to decide its own fate. At the moment it is a protectorate. Today at 0:00 it is bancrupt and from then on doesn´t even has a military left. 

 

Beside that what does Tsipras want the people vote about? The offer was pulled back, the decission stands that greece will fall out of the EU and Euro. A group it never belonged into from the start.

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Guest PatrickT

yes and no

 

just watched a q&a with schultz, president of the european parliament

 

amongst others he said , as i understood it, that the referendum is most definitely a legitimate and legal and ethical use of democracy , but by the same token, the EU has the right to state their case as well to the greek people in order for them to vote. and as such, he pretty much suggested that the vote be "yes" -

 

its all part of democracy ...no matter how painful that might be to those financial power brokers, who still think in medieval terms and fiefdoms under their thumb

 

if that doesnt give the finger to the banksters who got pissed off , i dont know what does

 

the referendum is definately ok, in fact i would go as far to say imperative and about fucking time ,,,,no matter how pissed off those who are against it, to whom i say fuck you

 

like i said before

 

 

It is amazing that you think greeks have the right to decide that tehy can steal otehr people (who actually work, something greeks as people don´t know) to steal their money. 

 

But you are right, its about time.

 

To the idiots here who call this great, important and brave:

 

griechenland-8-540x304.jpg

 

This women came from bank today. Her retirement payment could not be paid. Its the small people who get crushed from tsipras and his communist-nazi coalition.

 

Greece becomes a failed state. It can´t do the national service. No pensions, no police, no healthcare, no schools, no military and no security. And greece has no income.

 

There are no other allies. Russia denied help and so did china. greece can offer nothing. It produces nothing. It is sad to see a european ation to fall on the same level as an african nation. 

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Guest eyoismos

It is amazing that you think greeks have the right to decide that tehy can steal otehr people (who actually work, something greeks as people don´t know) to steal their money. 

 

 that you are a dumb fuck , we have established this long time ago, you are just confirming it again

 

Screen%20Shot%202012-05-29%20at%202.48.3

 

if you even had half a brain you would be talking about efficiency and productivity, in which case you would have a very strong case

 

if you had even half a brain you would recognize that nobody held a gun to germany or others to lend money, for so long and highly irresponsibly because of greed no less, so the "Stealing" accusation is pretty much null and void. the fact that greeks as  a whole where selectively blind, and very stupidly let me add,  to what was really going on and left with a burden is another story whatsoever. just as stupid as the voters of the eu for allowing such things to develop.... but europe, as in its people are  starting, and i emphasize starting, to wake up

 

and the fact that you persistently confuse, or rather equate the right wing "independent greeks" party with golden dawn re-emphasizes your political ignorance and stupidity

 

as for your crocodile tears expressed above.... falling on deaf ears and blind eyes .... BECAUSE of the crap you so often have thrown at every greek, irrespective of political affiliation

 

but at least some few grey matter cells lodged somewhere in some crevice in your void of logic skull have enough sense to change your last post where you mentioned, amoungst other rubbish,  greeks starving and you laughing

 

and dont deny it ... or do we need to ask admin to show your original post?

 

fortunately we are all , pretty much, impervious by now of your crap that instead of coming out of your ass , comes out of your mouth and hell bent of causing conflict and discord

 

the only question really is ...who's payroll are you on to become a permanent troll and candidate warmonger to boot?

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Guest PatrickT

 that you are a dumb fuck , we have established this long time ago, you are just confirming it again

 

Screen%20Shot%202012-05-29%20at%202.48.3

 

if you even had half a brain you would be talking about efficiency and productivity, in which case you would have a very strong case

 

if you had even half a brain you would recognize that nobody held a gun to germany or others to lend money, for so long and highly irresponsibly because of greed no less, so the "Stealing" accusation is pretty much null and void. the fact that greeks as  a whole where selectively blind, and very stupidly let me add,  to what was really going on and left with a burden is another story whatsoever. just as stupid as the voters of the eu for allowing such things to develop.... but europe, as in its people are  starting, and i emphasize starting, to wake up

 

and the fact that you persistently confuse, or rather equate the right wing "independent greeks" party with golden dawn re-emphasizes your political ignorance and stupidity

 

as for your crocodile tears expressed above.... falling on deaf ears and blind eyes .... BECAUSE of the crap you so often have thrown at every greek, irrespective of political affiliation

 

but at least some few grey matter cells lodged somewhere in some crevice in your void of logic skull have enough sense to change your last post where you mentioned, amoungst other rubbish,  greeks starving and you laughing

 

and dont deny it ... or do we need to ask admin to show your original post?

 

fortunately we are all , pretty much, impervious by now of your crap that instead of coming out of your ass , comes out of your mouth and hell bent of causing conflict and discord

 

the only question really is ...who's payroll are you on to become a permanent troll and candidate warmonger to boot?

 

 

We are sick of your kind. Thats what you don´t understand. We, the german people, demand this bullshit to end. Once and for all. And thats what you can´t understand and you are unable to see, that otehr nations want greece to be out. 

 

I wont respond to your personal insults. You are way to low to bother with this. 

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Guest PatrickT

Ad as for greeks hard working. Greece produces nothing. Never did nor can. It had no industrial capacity, it has no working economy. It produces nothing, it creates nothing. What "work" do you talk about? The word "work" has a defintion. And greece does not fullfill it. 

 

You demand money for nothing. And that won´t work. Germany is not responsible to pay greece income. We are a democracy as well. And this game ends now. 

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Guest eyoismos

 

I wont respond to your personal insults. You are way to low to bother with this. 

 as opposed to your own, right? if you dont like it fuck off, otherwise as long as you dish it out, expect to be treated the same

 

you know what, though, i dont gave a rats ass anymore and wont even bother with your rants and raves any more...

 

you are below contempt, you fucking nazi prick

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Guest eyoismos

Frencois Hollande is punting for a yes vote in the greek referendum

 

and i basically agree

 

but i especially like one of the things he said ...something about the greek government asking for the peoples advice of what next to do

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Guest PatrickT

 as opposed to your own, right? if you dont like it fuck off, otherwise as long as you dish it out, expect to be treated the same

 

you know what, though, i dont gave a rats ass anymore and wont even bother with your rants and raves any more...

 

you are below contempt, you fucking nazi prick

 

 

I doubt that you have the capacity to even grasp the economical facts. Thats my field, not yours.

 

You also don´t understand that europe is tired about greece. You expect that we pay for greece. But we won´t and thats the core problem you dont understand. And thats also the answer of your question. You believe a greek referendum can force a greek solution on the german (european nations). But that won´t happen. And because of that greece is on the way down. 

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eyo:

 

like i said before, if there are irresponsible borrowers, then there are also irresponsible lenders ... so if the lenders hurt ... fuck them

 

So the lenders gave loans to Greece in good faith and now you say: Fuck them.

Typical Greek attitude. Who cares about the "malakes" right?

 

So what's gona happen when Greece needs Euros to pay for fuel imports?

What happens when Greece needs Euros to import pharmaceuticals, medical equipment and supplies?

What happens when Greece needs Euros to pay for food more than half of which is imported from abroad?

What happens when Greece needs Euros for pesticides, fertilizers and machines to increase or even maintain Agricultural production?

 

Is Greece gonna ask the "MALAKES" to lend her money on Good Faith?

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I don't think Greece says "we're not paying". This whole situation is obviously much more complicated than what you describe in your example.

What we don't want to pay is the exorbitant fees added to the original loans. 

 

In any case, obviously the Syriza government fucked up and made some enemies in the EU over these past few months. There's no denying that. If you're asking me I don't agree with the referendum too. What's the point for a referendum, especially when the question posed is completely irrelevant. If they really wanted to take direction from the people then the referendum should have taken place as soon as Syriza came to power and the question should have been "should Greece continue negotiations to stay in the EU and the Euro or not". As simple as that.

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I don't think Greece says "we're not paying". This whole situation is obviously much more complicated than what you describe in your example.

What we don't want to pay is the exorbitant fees added to the original loans. 

 

In any case, obviously the Syriza government fucked up and made some enemies in the EU over these past few months. There's no denying that. If you're asking me I don't agree with the referendum too. What's the point for a referendum, especially when the question posed is completely irrelevant. If they really wanted to take direction from the people then the referendum should have taken place as soon as Syriza came to power and the question should have been "should Greece continue negotiations to stay in the EU and the Euro or not". As simple as that.

You are expanding on the Novo-Graecian myth of the exorbitant fees. In reality, Greece's lenders were extremely generous. Greece received money at about 1.5%. That's way lower than other countries pay to raise money. But hey, suit yourselves. Lets see at what rates they'll be able to raise money from the markets. Hint: They wont get a penny no matter what they offer.

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Guest PatrickT

I don't think Greece says "we're not paying". This whole situation is obviously much more complicated than what you describe in your example.

What we don't want to pay is the exorbitant fees added to the original loans. 

 

In any case, obviously the Syriza government fucked up and made some enemies in the EU over these past few months. There's no denying that. If you're asking me I don't agree with the referendum too. What's the point for a referendum, especially when the question posed is completely irrelevant. If they really wanted to take direction from the people then the referendum should have taken place as soon as Syriza came to power and the question should have been "should Greece continue negotiations to stay in the EU and the Euro or not". As simple as that.

Greece basicly gets money for free from the EU and IWF. As soon as the program ends (today at 0:00), greece will only have acess from the free market. Greece is rated on junk level. You kmow what that means? No money from the market at all and interest rates as high as 40%.

 

Syriza is the collective incompetence and to be honest i'm shocked about that. A greek minister goes online in german Tv and tells people they can travel save in greece because their bank accounts are not in greek banks and they also can pay with their credit cards. He was unaware of the fact, that you need local banks for the payment processing. He actually believed the ATM and credit card machines are working with some kind of magic i suppose.

 

And such persons steer this nation into the wall. I can fully understand why the 18 €-Zone ministers kicked varoufakis out.

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Guest eyoismos

So the lenders gave loans to Greece in good faith and now you say: Fuck them.

Typical Greek attitude. Who cares about the "malakes" right?

 

So what's gona happen when Greece needs Euros to pay for fuel imports?

What happens when Greece needs Euros to import pharmaceuticals, medical equipment and supplies?

What happens when Greece needs Euros to pay for food more than half of which is imported from abroad?

What happens when Greece needs Euros for pesticides, fertilizers and machines to increase or even maintain Agricultural production?

 

Is Greece gonna ask the "MALAKES" to lend her money on Good Faith?

 

good faith? seriously? either you are a dumb ass to believe that, or the lenders are complete idiots

 

everybody in their right mind fully knows that if somebody tries to borrow more than he is capable of returning back  you dont give that person even more money to pay off loans

 

nope .. greed pure and simple

 

as for the rest of your little rant you conveniently forget what i also said

 

 

borrowers i would say that lived for far too long in cocoons that they decided to enclose themselves in, rightly or wrongly  .... BOTH must pay the price

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good faith? seriously? either you are a dumb ass to believe that, or the lenders are complete idiots

 

everybody in their right mind fully knows that if somebody tries to borrow more than he is capable of returning back  you dont give that person even more money to pay off loans

 

nope .. greed pure and simple

 

as for the rest of your little rant you conveniently forget what i also said

This is the view of a typical nitwitted Novo-Graecian loudmouth.

 

In a modern mercantile environment Good Faith is EVERYTHING.

 

Everytime I book a flight a month in advance I do so in the Good Faith that when I show up at the airport the airline will have a seat for me.

My credit card vendor pays the airline on my behalf in the Good Faith that I will pay my credit card bill.

When I place an order to Dell to ship a storage array worth tens of thousands to my clients location they do so right away in the Good Faith that I will pay the invoice they will send me three weeks later. And I place the order in the Good Faith that my client will pay the invoice he receives from me.

 

Doing business is almost imposible without Good Faith. Go and ask business owners in Greece who are unable to place orders to vendors, domestic or foreign, without paying cash upfront and you'll understand how difficult doing business is once faith has been lost.   

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