admin

Are you in your right mind comparing Kemal's to Erdogan's Turkey? There are 2 different political philosophies there. The fact that Turkey's economy still seems to be doing ok, when someone is looking from the outside doesn't mean much. There's trouble brewing in many fronts. The Erdogan government has been heavily involved in the turnaround Turkey saw in the 2000's (if you remember IMF came in to bail out Turkey in 2001: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/3269669/IMF-may-need-to-print-money-as-crisis-spreads.html),but in the process their economy has become more and more dependand to old world Ottoman practices. Check with your friends again, they'll probably tell you that in order to do business in Turkey you need to have contacts in the government or protection by powerful politicians. This was not the case 15 or so years ago. Also, Turkey is part of the "fragile five" (Google it for more info...) because of her weak growth, high inflation and high account deficits. They're a massive economy because of their huge population, and they can certainly still keep their heads above the water because of the low interest rates in the world markets today, but the writings of craziness and megalomania are on the wall (see Erdogan's palace). Turkey's secular democracy has been slowly changing under Erdogan and many people in Turkey don't like this. You see that things will continue being rosey for Turkey, I see trouble brewing in many fronts (political, financial, social). I guess we'll have to wait and see who's right.

You seem to forget the riots in Istanbul and Ankara just a while back. Turkey is a boiling pot ready to explode for quite some time now. It's just a matter of an important ground breaking event happening at some place in Turkey, at the right place and time, to get things rolling, Turks and Kurds will never come together, where did you get this idea from? It's obviously hard to predict how soon things will explode in Turkey and the country will break into pieces, but anyone who's seen how things evolved in Europe over the past 20-25 years will be able to draw parallels. We live in a time where small groups want to break away from the old world "large countries" which were created mostly in the late 1800's - early 1900's and brought together several different groups of people under their umbrellas. This may made sense 100 plus years ago. It doesn't seem to make sense anymore to many people out there. Ask the Catalans, the Serbians/Croats/Bosnians, the Moldovans, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Checks, Slovaks etc. who all decided (or are trying...) to break away from the "co-op" countries they were forced to be made part of. This is a new era. The era of small communities realizing their real cultural backgrounds and wanting to go back and explore and celebrate their roots. I can guarantee you that Turkey will fall apart sooner or later. I can certainly see the western, more European part of Turkey, breaking away sooner rather than later, then the Kurds will carve a piece of their own in the north east, then who knows who else will ask for independence. You have to remember that what is now Turkey was for centuries a multiethnic mosaic. The young Turks managed to glue all those pieces together for the past 100 years but those times are gone. Erdogan has been pushing things to the edge. The pot is boiling and can only take so much pressure before it explodes. I just hope that when it explodes some of the fragments won't hit Greece too, because the explosion is going to be pretty big and it will upset the balance in the whole area, the Balkans and the middle east. It goes without saying that this is just my non-expert opinion. I'm not an historian or a clairvoyant to be able to predict the future. It's just an "educated" guess based on what we've seen in the past in other places of the world, and what we see developing in Turkey in the past 4-5 years or maybe more.

In a different topic we discussed about the role Turkey should be playing in the area (Balkans). Seems that even though from the outside Turkey seems like a pretty "stable" country, the reality is far from this. There have been many incidents over the past few years which point to the direction of intense internal strife. My prediction is that we'll eventually see Turkey breaking up in 2-3 pieces. People in Istanbul and the Aegean coast already feel disconnected, on the most part, with their Turkishness. In the past we've seen a few people from Turkey visiting this forum and writing about this feeling they have that they, as part of the "pro-European" part of Turkey are different than the rest of their compatriots. Add to this that many Turks who live in Istanbul and the coast are now re-discovering their Greek ancestors and start feeling a connection to their Greek side (we've seen this too by a few people who have posted in this forum in the past). I think that Turkey today is ready for a change. There are a few strong minorities (like the Kurds) who have already started questioning the status quo. Also, the "pro-European" Turks of the western side of Turkey are asking for changes in the government and the army. The latest incident in Ankara points to this direction: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/world/europe/ankara-turkey-explosion-deaths.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0 There's trouble and changes brewing.

Full article found here: http://blog.transparency.org/2014/10/28/speaking-up-for-greek-whistleblowers/

Defend it? Were they attacking you? You better wish you're not in their shoes one day and need help to survive...

Since you're making a connection to the Quebecois should I assume that you're a fellow Canadian from Quebec? Yes, it's true that while the French language continued evolving in France, it somehow remained "stagnant" in Quebec. I have a few French friends from France and they see Quebecois similar to the French people speak in some villages in France today. Probably the same thing happened with some pockets of Greek speaking people in Anatolia. At some point they found themselves surrounded by non-Greek speaking people but they continued speaking the language of their ancestors. However, the Greek language in mainland Greece evolved with influences from the French, English, Spanish, Italian, Ottoman etc. conquerors over the centuries. This is pretty typical and I've seen it in many Greek-communities throughout North America. It's pretty interesting meeting 2nd and 3rd generation Greeks who speak Greek the way their parents or grandparents taught them with an accent typical of the place their ancestors came from. I remember years ago I had met a Greek whose parents were from some remote village from Karditsa (central Greece), where people have a very distinct accent. The guy was in his late 30s but had never visited Greece in his life, yet he was fairly fluent in conversational Greek because he was speaking Greek to his parents and to the small community of Greeks in the place he lived. As expected this guy had the typical accent of a Greek who came from that area of Greece.

Yes, of course there were several different ancient Greek dialects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_dialects What is interesting about this is that Greeks who lived outside mainland Greece spoke dialects which were closer to the ancient Greek dialects spoken in their areas for ceturies. As an example, my paternal grandfather and that whole side of my family moved to mainland Greece in 1920 from a place called Aivali (or Kydonies in Greek) on the coast of Asia Minor opposite the island of Lesvos. Greeks in that part of the world spoke the Aeolic dialect for centuries. Even though in mainland Greece the language evolved to the koine Greek during Alexander's time, which eventually evolved into what we today call modern Greek, in some areas in Asia Minor Greek continued speaking a dialect which used many terms from the ancient Aeolic and Ionic dialects. I was always fascinated listening to my paternal grandfather talk with his brothers and sisters in their dialect. I always thought that it was some dialect from the island of Lesvos (that's where they were raised after their family moved from Asia Minor to Greece) but much later, and after I met with some scholars and linguists who were doing research around the Greek dialects of Asia Minor, I found out through them that what my grandfather was speaking was an ancient Greek dialect which was heavily influenced by the Aeolic dialect.

There are a few similarities in the Greek food we eat now with the food of the ancient Greeks that I know of, I'm no expert though For starters, Greeks back then, very much as Greeks today, consumed mainly what their land produced. So mainly grains (Greeks love bread!), several different types of fruits like figs, grapes etc., olive oil of course, fish, honey etc. Talking about things that survived from ancient Greece (and ancient times in general) to this day, and are related to food/eating, I'd add animal sacrifice. Greeks to this day "sacrifice" a lamp every easter. And even though most people would think that this is a "Christian" tradition it's really an ancient tradition, stemming from the animal sacrifices to the ancient gods. As far as the language goes, this is a long discussion, and I'll probably upset eyoismos if I say that phonetically Classical Greek would probably sound alien to modern Greek speakers. This is because even though the alphabet is more or less the same since ancient times some letters - and as an extension many words - were pronounced differently. I'm not a linguist myself to be able to provide a complete account of all differences, but a typical example is the letter B (beta) which in ancient times - according to the linguists - was pronounced as an English "b" (as in bee), while in modern Greek we pronounce it as a "v". So, in short, eve though modern Greek speakers can probably understand and pronounce correctly several ancient Greek words, they'd probably have a hard time fully understanding someone speaking ancient Greek the way it was spoken at the time. I'd also note that probably nobody today can reproduce exactly the classical Greek pronunciation. And that's not only because as native speakers of modern languages (modern Greek included) we carry over our native phonology, but also because classical Greek used pitch to differentiate vowels in words, while most (if not all) modern languages (modern Greek included) use stress instead.

Modern Greeks use a lot of things from their past, and this past includes remnants of things passed on to us from the ancient Greeks (several celebrations and feasts are directly influenced by the ancient Greeks, and so is our language and several expressions from the ancient times which we still use), from the Byzantine times (all the Christians traditions), and also from more recent times when the Greeks were influenced by the Ottomans. It's funny in a way, that while the Greeks changed the way they name their days of the week sometime around the Byzantine times (Deftera, Triti etc. and we still use these names today), most Europeans based their naming of the days in the original ancient Greek naming of the days of the week. So their Sunday is the original Greek "ημέρα του ήλιου" (day of the son), Monday is the "ημέρα της σελήνης" (day of the moon) and so on...

As a society we are responsible for all human beings in need. I'm not going to go as far as saying that we're obliged to offer them halal meals and build them mosques, but we should be trying to help them any way we can and at least fulfil basic needs such as food and water, and a safe place to stay. These people didn't choose to be born and raised in crazy countries, run by unreasonable nutcases. It was just the luck of the draw. They're making a conscious effort to get out of there and live a normal life. The least we can do is offer them the basic things they need to survive and help them rebuild their lives.

This is an awfully cold hearted comment, by someone who's himself an immigrant.

It's impossible to protect Greece's borders with Turkey. There are hundreds of islands across the coast of Asia Minor where migrants can land. In most cases it's a short boat ride from Turkey. Much safer and easier than crossing from Libya to Italy. The problem is that Turkey doesn't care to stop anyone from crossing to Greece/Europe. The European community needs to work with countries like Turkey, Libya and others and help them cope with the illegal migrants at their points of entry. This is a complex situation with many unfortunate souls trying to escape their rough lives at home and start a new life in a better place.

If most Germans had the same mentality you have then Germany would not be the country it is today. Thankfully most of your compatriots do not think like you do.

That's your personal opinion I guess, shared by 0 (zero) other people in the world.

Ok, I don't think we can seriously discuss this if you're claiming that the Turks did not commit genocides against people who lived in Asia Minor. Also, what a stupid question trying to find any mention of ΕΛΛΑΔΑ in ancient texts. ΕΛΛΑΔΑ as a term to describe the area we now identify as "mainland Greece" is only used since the mid 1800's. I don't think you'll find any ancient Greek texts talk about ΕΛΛΑΔΑ. Does this mean that ancient Greeks were not...Greeks? Your arguments are a mish-mash of propaganda, half-baked history and twisted personal ideas. I don't doubt for a minute that you don't feel Greek, and that's fine (and I guess the next question is why do you hang out in a Greek forum if you don't feel any connection to anything Greek...but that's a different discussion ). Don't tell me though that most Pontians in general feel the same way you do, because I know hundreds of them (not to say thousands...) and all of them are more fiercely Greek than any Greek I know.

This is how they do things in Turkey in 2015: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3262116/Turkish-officials-defend-shooting-dead-Kurdish-protestor-dragging-body-streets-saying-corpse-booby-trapped.html You should be happy you don't live there.

Are you for real??? The Turks, the masters of genocide, are a people to look up to? Not sure what you guys are taking in Texas but you're clearly delusional. If you see yourself as an Ottoman good for you. Most Turks (especially the ones in the Aegean coast) don't even see themselves as Ottomans. I think hanging out with Texans has been bad for you. I'd suggest moving to a more liberal and open minded state

I think it's clear that ajax's point of view about the Pontians is completely different than the view of the majority of other Pontians about themselves.

To be fair, Turks are very hospitable too. Again, I hate generalizations, but living in Canada I have the pleasure of hanging out and getting to know people of many different cultures. Even though no two people are the same, no matter where they come from, there are some general characteristics shared by people of the same culture and background. What I've noticed is that in general Greeks, middle easterns (Turks, Kurds, Syrians, Lebanese etc.) are much more hospitable and friendly than people of Northern European and North American heritage. This is a fact. Saying this, I've met many Canadians (whose families have lived in Canada for several generations) who are extremely hospitable and excellent hosts. But that's rare. As it is rare to find a Greek, anywhere in North America, who's not more hospitable than the average North American.

Hold your horses folks. Who the fuck cares about Germany anyway. This is a Greek forum

Patrick, if you were born and raised in what used to be Eastern Germany you'll probably know better than we do the situation of your compatriots in the East. There's an interesting article in the Guardian about this: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/02/german-reunification-25-years-on-how-different-are-east-and-west-really 25 years later things have not really changed much in the core. East Germans are still much different than their western compatriots and it will take a long time before the 2 sides of Germany really unite in each and every way. And just to make another point: it only took 45 years (between 1945 - 1990) to create such a huge divide in the lifestyles of two very similar (or the same if you want...) people, the Western and Eastern Germans. Imagine what 400 years under Ottoman rule did to the Greeks, or what 100 or more years of Russian rule did to the Ukrainians, Georgians etc. I hope this will give you a bit of perspective, knowing that you were raised in an Eastern German family and you've heard the stories of bitterness your parents and grandparents have shared with you.

Injustice? Are you kidding? Germany destroyed Europe...twice! Wiped out huge populations in several parts of Europe, single handedly eradicated all the large Jewish communities throughout Europe, burnt and pillaged most European countries, and you're talking about injustice done to Germany? Are you for real??? The allies instead of wiping Germany out of the map they helped rebuild your nation, they supported you financially through difficult times and helped Germany become what it is today. How can you possibly talk about injustice. Injustice is what Germany has brought to the rest of Europe in 2 world wars. But you know what? What goes around comes around. Europe, and the rest of the world is changing. Nations which were powerful in the past overtime fade into oblivion. One time the Egyptians had a great empire, then the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Byzantines, the Ottomans, the Austrians, the Brits, the Americans...soon the Chinese, but eventually all will rise and then fall. That's the nature of our changing world. Some will remain in the limelight for a few centuries, others for a few short decades. Nobody stays up forever. There's a rise, and then there's a fall. And more often than not most great empires crumble from the inside. Germany, or the US or China may not decline in our lifetime (even though never say never...), but eventually they will decline, as did all the great players before them. It's only natural. What's to come next, who knows. Maybe a unified Europe, or a unified North America, or we may go back to fragmented small countries as is the trend lately with everyone wanting independence (see all the ex-communist eastern European countries, see the Basques, the Catalans, the Scotts, the Bavarians and who knows who else...).

Well said my friend. Even though I usually hate to generalize and say things like "all Greeks are hospitable" or "all Germans are heartless assholes" etc. in some cases it's fair to generalize, especially when a pattern repeats itself over and over again. When it comes to hospitality Greeks are really exceptional. Even though I've met many people in my life from many different cultures, and some of them are also very hospitable, I can really say that Greeks in general are amongst the most hospitable people I've been around to. I guess you could say that since I'm Greek myself I'm usually receiving some extra attention from fellow Greeks, which may be true, but nonetheless, Greeks' hospitality is legendary no matter where you go. I sincerely wish that the hardships Greeks are going through these days won't change their core values, and from what I'm seeing so far in most cases it's reinforcing them.

Yes, but this topic is not. So next time you'll mention Greece in this topic you'll be packing your bags and go find another "shit forum" to post your opinions.

I'd think that Germany is more of a Turkish/arab country by now, based on people of Turkish/arab descent living in Germany today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Germany In fact, there are many German international soccer players who are of Turkish/Arabic origin: Sami Khedira, Mesut Ozil, Mehmet Scholl, Gudogan, Nuri Sahin and others. As you grow up you'll eventually understand that our world is much more complicated than you think it is.