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Erdogan and Russia

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The real losers are the Syrian people. The shooting down of a plane will not solve anything, if the Turks said from the beginning that it was about protecting the Turkmen, that is one thing, they claim they were protecting their air space, that's bull.

 

Saudis, UAE, Turkey and Iran are caught in a religious (ignorant) war and don't give a shit about the people, the EU has no balls, the US broke it and wont buy it, and Russia from the beginning is only concerned with keeping a nasty wont buy it puppet dictator in power.

 

This is just a sample of proof.

 

The sunni arab countries are more concerned with attacking shiites in Yemen than ISIS. And I am sure plenty of Saudis are donating money to ISIS.

 

Russia is propping up Assad and ISIS by attacking all the non-ISIS rebels.

The EU is just watching genocides and hope someone does something about it.

Obama FP is weak, I voted for the guy over the idiots the republican party keeps nominating, but what the f already.

China some super power they are, nothing but self serving assholes like most super powers.

And our friends the Turks, are simply looking to: 1) prevent any Kurdish gains 2) watch sunnis gain more power 3) influence... One of the most hypocritical nations out there. 

 

what a f-ing mess

 

http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/24/turkey-violated-greek-airspace-2244-times-last-year-fires-at-russia-for-doing-it-once/

 

 

On a separate note 

 

http://www.todayszaman.com/business_turkish-tourism-to-be-first-victim-of-russian-jet-crisis_405178.html

 

More Russian tourists for Greece!

 

 

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I mentioned this in a different topic too. I just hope that the morons we have as a government won't drag Greece into this. Let Turkey and Russia figure this out on their own. They're big boys.

 

I'm concerned that any escalation of the situation between Turkey and Russia won't only affect tourism in Turkey, but it will affect tourism in the whole area. A "war" between Turkey and Russia would be catastrophic for the whole area and as it is right now the money from tourism is the only thing that keeps Greece afloat. If we lose this too then we're done.

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I expect no war between each other, only possible retaliation moves.

 

The only place I see greece loosing in is possible energy investments in terms of future pipe lines

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Guest Xenophon

C'mon Putin, don't take this sort of shite from the Turks, give them a good battering. Screw the terrorist sympathising Erdogan, a leader who kills Kurds and Russians while allowing ISIS to run riot in Syria. Yet the US and NATO continues to support Turkey.

 

 

I'm concerned that any escalation of the situation between Turkey and Russia won't only affect tourism in Turkey, but it will affect tourism in the whole area. A "war" between Turkey and Russia would be catastrophic for the whole area and as it is right now the money from tourism is the only thing that keeps Greece afloat. If we lose this too then we're done.

 

This is a good point, but its hard to get into hypotheticals like that. If they did go to war, it would likely be in East Turkey, pretty far from Greece.

 

Has Cyprus' tourism even been negatively affected by the fighting in Gaza and Syria? I wouldn't know, but I'm just trying to make a guess based on a similar comparison.

 

Safe to say that if a Turkish war did damage Greece's tourism industry and economy, then Greece may be more likely to get involved since they would suffer regardless. But if Turkey got in a war with whoever and it was not damaging Greece tourism, then Greece would probably stay neutral.

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Guest FriendofGreece

It is a good thing that Putin has got a cool head. Turkey is playing with fire. In an area already saddled with conflicts, there is no reason at all to shoot the Russian plane.

 

Now that I know that there are many Turkic Syrians in Syria, maybe that explains why there are so many Syrian refugees in Turkey. I was wondering how the Syrians could enter and leave Turkey so easily.

 

Greece does not have money, how could it get involved in anything other than seeking help from the EU or whatever international organization?

 

Already because of the migrants, some tourism agencies have taken Greek islands off the itineraries in their packages. 

 

Syrians are the real losers but it seems to me Syria is their country, so they have to fight for it. The problems arise, in my view, because you have all kinds of foreign countries involved, each one with its own interest.

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This is a good point, but its hard to get into hypotheticals like that. If they did go to war, it would likely be in East Turkey, pretty far from Greece.

 

Has Cyprus' tourism even been negatively affected by the fighting in Gaza and Syria? I wouldn't know, but I'm just trying to make a guess based on a similar comparison.

 

Safe to say that if a Turkish war did damage Greece's tourism industry and economy, then Greece may be more likely to get involved since they would suffer regardless. But if Turkey got in a war with whoever and it was not damaging Greece tourism, then Greece would probably stay neutral.

 

It's anybody's guess how much tourism in the Aegean would be affected by a possible war between Turkey and Russia. Also, what makes you think that in a possible war between Turkey and Russia there would be no attacks in the western part of the country? If it's an all out war then it's most likely that most of the attacks will be happening in the western side of Turkey where most of their infrastructure is located.

 

I'm pretty certain that we won't get there, but when you're dealing with 2 nutcases like Erdogan and Putin you can never be sure.

 

As far as Greece's role in a possible war between Turkey and Russia.  Firstly, as a NATO nation we may have to side with the Turks, secondly - and most importantly - Greece doesn't have the means to play the role of an aggressor in the area (be it against Turkey or against Russia) as we don't have the means (army personnel in terms of numbers or the firepower) to go against one of these 2 nations. We would be crashed within days if we'd try to do anything.

 

Saying this, it's a scary thought that if it comes to this it's going to be people like Tsipras and Kamenos who will be the ones to make the decision to go (or not go) to war against Turkey or Russia. Dumb and dumber.

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Guest

Lets cut the bullshit.

There are only two possible outcomes for Syria:

 

1. The US and her proxies (Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar) win and establish a Caliphate according to Saudi and Turkish ambitions.

2. Assad and the Russians win and reach an agreement with the legitimate Kurdish opposition and thereby force Turks, Saudis and the US to shelve their schemes.

 

Now put the pseudo-morality aside and ask which outcome is more favorable for Greece. The answer is obvious. The defeat of Turkey and the success of Assad and Russia is in our interest.

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Guest FriendofGreece

The two possible outcomes seem irreconcilable. It looks like Syria is for the long haul.

 

Although the Assad/Russia outcome is better for Greece, but Greece is part of the Nato. If Greece is asked to participate by Nato, it would be going against what is favorable for it?

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Guest

The two possible outcomes seem irreconcilable. It looks like Syria is for the long haul.

 

Although the Assad/Russia outcome is better for Greece, but Greece is part of the Nato. If Greece is asked to participate by Nato, it would be going against what is favorable for it?

That's the dilema we are in.

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Guest FriendofGreece

The thing is if Turkey becomes a member of the EU, who knows what bad things it will do to Greece. Turkey has been sending over those migrants to Greece with a specific purpose, being the destruction of Greece, hasn't it?

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Who says that the an Assad/Russia win is a favourable outcome for Greece? When was the last time Russia, in older or more recent times, did anything that would not benefit her first and foremost. It's just some idiotic Greeks from both sides of the spectrum (left and right) who for some stupid reason think that the Russians will come to save Greece from her misery.

 

Have they seen the misery most of the Russian people live in? Also, what exactly are they expecting Russia to do for Greece? Pay her debt? This is not going to happen. It hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen ever. Tsipras already went to Putin and got fuck all from him.

 

Quit kidding yourselves. Each country, and rightfully so, works for improving its situation without caring much for the common good or for the improvement of the situation in other countries. 

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Guest FriendofGreece

I just take it to mean that if the US/Turkey/proxies win, a stronger Turkey would bring more trouble to Greece.

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Guest

Who says that the an Assad/Russia win is a favourable outcome for Greece? When was the last time Russia, in older or more recent times, did anything that would not benefit her first and foremost. It's just some idiotic Greeks from both sides of the spectrum (left and right) who for some stupid reason think that the Russians will come to save Greece from her misery.

 

Have they seen the misery most of the Russian people live in? Also, what exactly are they expecting Russia to do for Greece? Pay her debt? This is not going to happen. It hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen ever. Tsipras already went to Putin and got fuck all from him.

 

Quit kidding yourselves. Each country, and rightfully so, works for improving its situation without caring much for the common good or for the improvement of the situation in other countries.

Wait a sec. So a Turkish win and an emboldened Turkey is in our favor? You can't be serious. Assad staying in power on the other hand and the Russian Navy and Airforce establishing a permanent presence around Tarsus and Latakia would be a great headache for the Turks. If, and that would be the best possible scenario, Assad reaches a compromise with the Kurds that leads to some form of Kurdish autonomy the Turks are faced with a major challenge. It is idiotic to claim that this would be detrimental to Greek interests. Lets face it, for Greece, it doesn't matter who wins as long as Turkey loses. This has nothing to do with our debt. It has something to do with Turkish expansionism and whatever puts a dampener on Turkeys ambitions is a plus for us.

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A Turkish win is definitely not a favourable outcome for Greece. But a win for Assad is not favourable to us either, and it's definitely not favourable to the Syrian people. They guy is a dictator, in case you didn't know it.

Things are complicated in the area of course, and as bystanders we're always asked to give our opinion in a lose-lose situation. It's like asking someone would you like to be killed by a gun or by a knife? The final outcome will be the same in both cases.

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Guest

A Turkish win is definitely not a favourable outcome for Greece. But a win for Assad is not favourable to us either, and it's definitely not favourable to the Syrian people. They guy is a dictator, in case you didn't know it.

Things are complicated in the area of course, and as bystanders we're always asked to give our opinion in a lose-lose situation. It's like asking someone would you like to be killed by a gun or by a knife? The final outcome will be the same in both cases.

So were the Syrian people worse off in 2010, when Assad had controll over the whole of Syria, than they are today where the greater part of Syria is held by Saudi and Turkish backed radicals and the country is overrun with international Jihadis? Lets look at the before and after pics:

Know-What-You-Bomb-Syria-Before-And-Afte

4d0b4c8e772f4f16d140434a7e35ea2a.jpg

tumblr_m0wrr6Qo1j1r1boeoo1_1280.jpg

 

 

And if the west had an issue with dictators and opression they should stop Turkey from bombing Kurdish possitions and Saudi Arabia from beheading people for writing poems.

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You could also post pictures of pre and post world war 2 Germany too. Were the German people worse off after 1945 when everything was destroyed in Germany or before 1939 when pictures would show a happy and prospering country?

Of course some Germans (and some Syrians) had it fine during those regimes. But overall many people suffered.

 

There's a 3rd picture in the series which is still missing.

In the case of Germany the 3rd photo would show a Germany prospering after WWII. For Syria, the jury is still out. We may see a Syria prospering in the future, but I very much doubt that this is what's going to happen, no matter which side wins this war.

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Guest FriendofGreece

I think in the case of Germany, it was helped by other countries after the war. It won't be the same with Syria. It would be like for Lybia or Iraq, look at those countries now.

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You could also post pictures of pre and post world war 2 Germany too. Were the German people worse off after 1945 when everything was destroyed in Germany or before 1939 when pictures would show a happy and prospering country?

Of course some Germans (and some Syrians) had it fine during those regimes. But overall many people suffered.

 

There's a 3rd picture in the series which is still missing.

In the case of Germany the 3rd photo would show a Germany prospering after WWII. For Syria, the jury is still out. We may see a Syria prospering in the future, but I very much doubt that this is what's going to happen, no matter which side wins this war.

Sorry but this is a stupid comparison. Germany was not bombed to liberate Germans from Hitler the dictator. It had to be bombed to stop the Germans from turning the rest of Europe into a pile of rubble. Assad didn't bomb Coventry or Warsaw now did he?

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Guest PatrickT

Looks like chancellor Merkel right now tries to negotiate between Erdogan and Putin. Maybe she achieves something

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Guest

Looks like chancellor Merkel right now tries to negotiate between Erdogan and Putin. Maybe she achieves something

I bet she'll try but in Erdogan's mind negotiation is synonymous with blackmail and extortion. So don't hold your breath.

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Guest PatrickT

I bet she'll try but in Erdogan's mind negotiation is synonymous with blackmail and extortion. So don't hold your breath.

 

I know Erdogan is a "difficult" character

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Guest

Russia is the enemy. Whats your problem with this? Of course i would not give russia the rights i take for myself.

Yes I get that. But, and I speak from a Greek position, do you even need enemies when you have an ally like Turkey?

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I agree, this is totally bullshit.

 

Turkey has been violating the Greek airspace for years. I've witness that myself several times. A few times as a soldier too. I clearly remember one time during military exercises on the island of Samos where Turkish airplanes flew over us while exercising with real ammunition. We were in Leopard tanks but the exercise included foot soldiers, artillery and air support unit. All using real ammunition. It could have taken just one idiot to open fire at those planes, bring them down and start a war. Such is the idiocy and risk taking of the Turkish military. Or I guess it could be just asking for trouble, and looking into starting a war.

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