Jump to content
Hellenism.Net

 

Sign in to follow this  
Guest PatrickT

solving the refugee crisis

Recommended Posts

Guest FriendofGreece

There have been something like 100 or 150 more policemen assigned to Idomeni, but as long as they are told not to touch the migrants, what is the use?

 

Yes, they should assign more, in terms of thousands, but the issue is not the number per se but that they be given the authority to deal with the migrants as they see fit. 

 

I am sure the policemen must be frustrated not to be able to do anything. I believe not only policemen, but the army should be sent to Idomeni and wherever there are big crowds of migrants. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

This is an old article but it sums up the Greek government stance on how to treat the migrants, using persuasion, as if these people listen to anything except their wants and demands. The stance has not changed, the government is still waiting to persuade them.

 

No, the migrants may have a will, but we don't have to do what they want.

 

http://time.com/4254739/greece-refugee-crisis/

 

"Rather than moving to one of the spacious and well-equipped shelters that Greece has set up near its northern border, thousands of migrants have therefore chosen to sleep in the squalid shantytown near Idomeni. In the last few days, heavy rains and thunderstorms have turned the camp into a giant field of mud. Brawls have become commonplace whenever charities arrive at the camp to distribute food, and its residents have grown increasingly desperate in demanding that the border reopens. On Feb. 29, hundreds of the asylum seekers at Idomeni tried to break through the border fence, and the Macedonian police responded with tear gas canisters, some of which were shot directly into the crowd.

Greece will do everything possible, says Vitsas, to prevent such scenes from recurring. His committee plans to distribute Arabic-language pamphlets, explaining that the border is closed and that far more comfortable conditions are available to them in nearby shelters. “But most people don’t listen to that,” he admits.

On Thursday morning, he ordered shipments of gravel to be sent to Idomeni, so that the refugees can at least put their tents on something other than the mud and dirt. He realizes, of course, that this will only give the camp a feeling of permanence. “That’s the problem,” he says. “That’s my problem.” And even with all the resources of the Greek state at his disposal, he hasn’t figured out a way around it, because the problem lies in the will of the migrants themselves."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

I think there should be a change in mentality on how to view these people. Before Cologne, the media and the police were hiding the migrants thefts and sex attacks on the population and the police was saying there was nothing that they could do. It was only after Cologne, with a reversal of how the public views those people, that there were actions taken against the migrants. I think that in Greece, the mentality is still pre-Cologne era. Until that is changed, it is hard to take actions against them the way they should be taken. That is why people have to see the migrants for what they are. Illegal invaders who came in Greece and destroyed the country. Wait to see the decline in tourism and in farm production. 

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/greece-is-allowed-to-deport-refugees-back-to-turkey-rioting-forecasted-2016-4

 

"The Greek government’s migration spokesman, Giorgos Kyritsis, told the Observer newspaper (emphasis ours): 

We are expecting violencePeople in despair tend to be violent

The whole philosophy of the deal is to deter human trafficking [into Europe] from the Turkish coast, but it is going to be difficult andwe are trying to use a soft approach. These are people have fled war.

They are not criminals."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

FoG:

 

I think there should be a change in mentality on how to view these people.

 

 

perhaps.

 

What is urgently needed in the case of Greece though  is a dramatic change in how the Greek Government views the Police Force it commands. SYRIZA is an acronym for Coalition of the radical Left and pretty much the whole of Syrizas command crew emerged from the Anarchist scene. That's where they have their roots and it should not come as a suprise that they view the Greek police as the enemy. Whenever you have a sit in or some sort of action, such as the blokade of the bridge on the Kilkis/Thessaloniki highway you see SYRIZA or affilated ANTARSIA members closing ranks with the refugees or even organizing the actions. You'll never see or hear any SYRIZA members expressing support for the Greek Police. Their ideology stands in the way of that. And now they are the Government. Thanks to the "Wisdom" of the Greek voters. The chances of addressing the stupidity of the later are slim and this makes the outlook for Greece rather grim 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

Why don't the people get rid of the Tsipras government now, can they? There must sure be lots of people against Tsipras, especially what he did with the debt, as you mentioned previously? 

 

I really sympathize with the Greek police. I cannot stand seeing them being attacked with rocks by the migrants, those same migrants that they are trying to protect by defending them to cross the border at Idomeni.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/03/uncertainty-as-turkey-prepares-for-controversial-migrant-returns/

 

"Deportations from Chios were also scheduled to begin on Monday.

A Turkish ferry company, Erturk, confirmed to The Telegraph that one of their vessels would be transporting refugees from Chios to Dikili.

Mohammed, a 23-year-old mechanic from Syria, said he would “jump in the sea” rather than return to Turkey. “If the police try to put us on the boat, we’ll fight the police,” he said.

“We’ll kill the police,” a man standing nearby said, imitating slitting a throat."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

is it not ironic that syriza behaves like arseholes just like the those they "accuse", ie.  the police (and lets face, there is a reason why the fuzz had a so called bad rap, aka why the term "mpatsos" came about) .... but on another plain and level, and of course,  conveniently hiding behind the finger of "politically correct" and ignoring their own sins and even unforgivable violence..... case and point marfin bank "incident" (which of course they will deny), amongst many many others

 

having said that... i fully concur with what ajax said about their background and thinking (cough) process

 

lets just say one initially hoped for "change" whatever the hell that meant ... and of course, as recent events proved,  ended up being a ... lets call it slap in the face to the expectations of the greek populace who voted them in, at least those that did, and now are "crying"

 

"words" (as in what syriza deployed) can be such a siren, music to the ears .... (to remind all about the adventures of odysseas and what happened to his mates when they allowed themselves to succumb to them)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

By the way, did anyone notice how all the migrant babies are well-fed and their white clothes are always clean? I am surprised. African kids often have just skin and bones and wear no clothes and are the ones who really suffer much more than these free-loader migrants.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/man-threatens-throw-baby-police-7702094

 

"According to various reports, including Ekathimerini.com , the man threatened to throw the child at a Greek coast guard after they stopped him from smashing up a car."

"The child is held by the neck and legs and is roughly shaken as a series of people try to snatch the baby back off the man."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Relax. The fact that some of these kids look well fed doesn't mean that they haven't been through a lot over the past few years.

 

It's a difficult situation. Just put yourself in those people's shoes for a moment. You had to flee your home, travel through Turkey, pay your weight's worth in gold, risk being killed or drown on your way to Greece, then finally reach the Greek islands and Greek mainland and after living in appalling conditions for months a decision is made by the powers that be (the EU and Turkey) that you now have to forcibly return to Turkey.

 

Wouldn't you be upset? Wouldn't you feel desperate and ready to do whatever it takes to not return to Turkey?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

I understand all that. But the thing that these migrants do not understand is that they are in Greece, not in their own countries, and that it is not up to them to decide anything. They should be grateful that Greece did not all deport them a long time ago, instead of behaving like they do. I mean, threaten to throw a baby, how low can that be?

 

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2016/04/06/protesting-migrant-threatens-to-throw-infant-at-police-in-greece-video/

 

"General Secretaries of Migration Policy Vassilis Papadopoulos, the Interior Tzanetos Philippakos and National Defense John Tafylis advised the refugees not to trust unofficial information that the borders will open. They asked them to move to the safer refugee accommodation centers that are safe because the port doesn’t have the infrastructure to host them.

Migrants, however, said that they want to leave for Germany. “We are not asking for food, or housing or sleep. We only want the borders to open,” one man said to the television cameras."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

By the way, it was not to deport them to Turkey, but to take them to a better facility than the Piraeus port where they will be taken care, fed, housed and have medical care. But well, all they want is to go to Germany.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

 

"According to various reports, including Ekathimerini.com , the man threatened to throw the child at a Greek coast guard after they stopped him from smashing up a car."

"The child is held by the neck and legs and is roughly shaken as a series of people try to snatch the baby back off the man."

 

Had he done that anywhere in the US he would be arrested and charged with child endangerment. Child protective services would of course take custody of the kid. And that's how dumb asses like that piece of garbage should be handled. Refugee or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

There are more than 53,000 in Greece now, nobody has time to do what you said and nobody really cares any more. 

 

The police and border guards just want to move them to the designated camps to empty Piraeus because the tourist season is coming and the tourists need to take the ferries to the islands. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

funny you should say that ......

Οι κάτοικοι της περιοχής, απογοητευμένοι από την αστυνόμευση αλλά και... φοβισμένοι με τις άγριες καταστάσεις που είδαν τα μάτια τους το τελευταίο διάστημα, τρέχουν να αγοράσουν... όπλα!

"Ο κόσμος έχει τρομοκρατηθεί με όλα αυτά που συμβαίνουν γύρω μας. Δυστυχώς αυτή τη στιγμή, η Αστυνομία δε μπορεί να προστατεύσει σωστά τον πολίτη..." λέει ένας πωλητής όπλων, σε κατάστημα της περιοχής. Σύμφωνα με τον ίδιο, οι πωλήσεις όπλων έχουν αυξηθεί "300% και 400% πάνω" όπως λέει χαρακτηριστικά στην κάμερα του LiveNews.

Τρόμος στην Ειδομένη! 400% η αύξηση στις πωλήσεις όπλων

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

The activists are the ones pushing the migrants not to move to camps and to revolt:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/08/greeks-struggle-to-shift-piraeus-migrants/

 

"In Piraeus, Greek officials criticised foreign activists for allegedly encouraging migrants to demand the reopening of Europe’s borders – despite there being almost zero chance of that happening.

The refugee crisis in Europe has attracted a range of volunteers and NGOs, from highly-respected organisations such as the Red Cross and Medecins Sans Frontieres to small bands of individuals, some from radical Left-wing groups.

Their presence is often signalled by the appearance of anti-establishment graffiti.

Around Idomeni, walls and motorway bridges are daubed with slogans such as “Smash the Fascist State” and “No borders, No Nations.”

Activists encouraged refugees to make a break for Macedonia last month. But the attempt was a failure, with the refugees rounded up and forced back by the Macedonian army and police. Three died while wading a fast-flowing river.  

Activists were “obstructing the plan to transfer refugees and migrants to organised shelters” the Piraeus Port Authority said in a statement.

“The time has arrived for the law to be strictly enforced against those who are taking advantage of the desperation and vulnerability of refugees and migrants,” it said."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35993767

 

"This second group had come from all over the world. From India, Morocco, Pakistan and the Palestinian Territories. There were also four Iraqis, among them a woman, the only one to board the boat. Today they were all heading in one direction, back to Turkey. Their dream of a better life in Europe was over."

"In the first three months of the year, 5,317 Pakistanis entered the country. Some of them are reported to have started a hunger strike at Moria camp on Lesbos.

"We risked our lives to come here, we don't want to go back to Turkey because they are going to send us back to Pakistan," one man, who called himself Ali, told AFP news agency.

"We don't want to apply for asylum in Greece, we want to go to Germany." "

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

the initial salvo of what i was talking about, and the pressure cooker effect

has it reached critical mass proportions? i dont think so, but the indications are certainly there

Ειδομένη: Τα ντοκουμέντα των άγριων επεισοδίων στα σύνορα - Τραυματίες και χάος σε συγκρούσεις προσφύγων με Σκοπιανούς - Φωτό και βίντεο!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

- Δακρυγόνα, χημικά ακόμα και σφαίρες από καουτσούκ έριχναν προς πάσα κατεύθυνση οι Σκοπιανοί
- Τραυματίστηκαν άντρες, γυναίκες και μικρά παιδιά μπροστά από τον φράχτη των κλειστών συνόρων
- ''Δεν υπήρξε παραβίαση των βόρειων συνόρων μας'' λένε πηγές του Πενταγώνου για τα άγρια επεισόδια
- ΕΛ.ΑΣ: ''Συγκεκριμένα άτομα που έρχονται με διαβατήρια κάθε πρωί οργανώνουν τα επεισόδια στο σημείο''
- Οι φωτογραφίες και τα βίντεο των συγκρούσεων κάνουν το γύρο του διαδικτύου και προκαλούν αίσθηση
ΣΥΝΕΧΗΣ ΕΝΗΜΕΡΩΣΗ

Τα επεισόδια μεταξύ προσφύγων και των αστυνομικών της ΠΓΔΜ ξεκίνησαν στις 12.00 το μεσημέρι, με άτομα να τρέχουν πανικόβλητα, άλλα να τραυματίζονται και την ατμόσφαιρα να γίνεται αποπνικτική μέσα σε λίγα δευτερόλεπτα. Όλα ξεκίνησαν όταν περισσότεροι από 2.000 πρόσφυγες και μετανάστες ξεκίνησαν από την αποκλεισμένη σιδηροδρομική γραμμή και έφτασαν στον φτάχτη των συνόρων.
 
Απλώθηκαν σε μήκος 500 μέτρων, κατάφεραν να ξηλώσουν τα συρματοπλέγαματα σε διάφορα σημεία και άνοιξαν την κεντρική σιδερόφραχτη πύλη. Τότε αστυνομικοί της ΠΓΔΜ απάντησαν με ''βροχή'' από χημικά, δακρυγόνα, χειροβομβίδες κρότου λάμψης και σφαίρες από καουτσούκ. Όλα αυτά έπεφταν προς πάσα κατεύθυνση με τους Σκοπιανούς να αδιαφορούν για τις γυναίκες και τα μικρά παιδιά, πολλά από τα οποία έπεσαν τραυματισμένα, άλλα αιμόφυρτα και άλλα με αναπνευστικά προβλήματα...
 
21.jpg
22.jpg
1.JPG
3.JPG
Το κέντρο επιχειρήσεων στο Πεντάγωνο διαμηνύει ότι οι Σκοπιανοί στρατιώτες και αστυνομικοί δεν καταδίωξαν τους πρόσφυγες σε ελληνικό έδαφος. Τονίζουν ότι δεν υπήρξε παραβίαση των βόρειων συνόρων μας στην Ειδομένη και επισημαίνουν πως οι ένοπλες δυνάμεις παρακολουθούν τα όσα συμβαίνουν στην περιοχή αδιάκοπα...
 
Σύμφωνα με τις ελληνικές αστυνομικές αρχές τα επεισόδια ανάμεσα στους πρόσφυγες και τις αστυνομικές δυνάμεις της ΠΓΔΜ συνεχίζονται, με κάποια διαστήματα ηρεμίας ανάμεσα. «Δεν μπορούμε να μιλήσουμε ακόμη για εκτόνωση, η κατάσταση είναι σε εξέλιξη», ανέφεραν εκπρόσωποι της αστυνομίας, διευκρινίζοντας ότι κοντά στον φράκτη βρίσκονται άλλοτε δεκάδες, άλλοτε εκατοντάδες άτομα και όποτε ρίχνουν πέτρες και αντικείμενα προς την πλευρά των Σκοπίων τους «απαντούν» με τη χρήση χημικών.
Από το πρωί εκατοντάδες πρόσφυγες άρχισαν να συγκεντρώνονται στη σιδηροδρομική γραμμή, στην ουδέτερη ζώνη Ελλάδας- ΠΓΔΜ. Η ένταση ξεκίνησε όταν πενταμελής αντιπροσωπεία τους κινήθηκε προς τον φράκτη, στην πλευρά της ΠΓΔΜ και επιχείρησε να διαπραγματευτεί με τις αστυνομικές αρχές της γειτονικής χώρας, προκειμένου να τους επιτραπεί να περάσουν τα σύνορα και να συνεχίσουν το ταξίδι τους.
Καθώς δεν υπήρξε ανταπόκριση στο αίτημα, περίπου 500 πρόσφυγες κινήθηκαν προς τον φράκτη, εξωτερικά των σιδηροδρομικών γραμμών και ακολούθησε διαμαρτυρία, ενώ από την πλευρά της αστυνομικών αρχών της ΠΓΔΜ ξεκίνησε η ρίψη δακρυγόνων. Όπως αναφέρουν οι Γιατροί Χωρίς Σύνορα, πολλοί πρόσφυγες κατέφυγαν στα ιατρεία του καταυλισμού με αναπνευστικά προβλήματα.
 
Οι αστυνομικές αρχές της χώρας βρίσκονται σε εγρήγορση και αναμένεται ενίσχυση της παρουσίας τους στην περιοχή, που θυμίζει καζάνι που βράζει. Φόβοι για επεισόδια υπήρχαν από χθες, όταν άγνωστοι μοίρασαν και κόλλησαν φυλλάδια γραμμένα στα αραβικά, με τα οποία καλούσαν πρόσφυγες και μετανάστες να συγκεντρωθούν στη σιδηροδρομική γραμμή και να ξεκινήσουν για τα σύνορα.

 

Η συγκέντρωση έγινε το πρωί, με τους Έλληνες αστυνομικούς όμως να σπεύδουν αρχικά να την αποσυνδέσουν από το φυλλάδιο. «Κυκλοφόρησε κάποιο φυλλάδιο, όμως, στη σιδηροδρομική γραμμή έχουμε μία από τις διαμαρτυρίες που γίνονται καθημερινά, δεν πρόκειται για κάποια οργανωμένη προσπάθεια να περάσουν τα σύνορα, είναι γύρω στα 150-200 άτομα», ανέφεραν στο ΑΠΕ-ΜΠΕ εκπρόσωποι των αστυνομικών αρχών, μία ώρα πριν τα επεισόδια.

 

Ο κόσμος όμως αυξήθηκε και ξαφνικά όλοι κινήθηκαν προς τον φτάχτη. Τώρα οι αρχές ψάχνουν συγκεκριμένους αλληλέγγυους που ουσιαστικά προκάλεσαν τα νέα επεισόδια. Εκείνους που κόλλησαν τα φυλλάδια και ξεσήκωσαν για ακόμα μία φορά πρόσφυγες και μετανάστες του καταυλισμού. ''Υπάρχει μια συγκεκριμένη ομάδα ανθρώπων που έρχονται κάθε πρωί με τα διαβατήριά τους στην περιοχή και προκαλούν τα επεισόδια'' έλεγαν υψηλόβαθμα στελέχη της αστυνομίας στο Mega...

 

Παρά τις προσπάθειες για εκκένωση ή έστω αποσυμφόρηση της περιοχής, πρόσφυγες και μετανάστες αρνούνται να φύγουν και επιμένουν να ζουν κάτω από αντίξοες συνθήκες κοντά στα σύνορα. Χθες το πρωί ο φτάχτης των Σκοπίων άνοιξε για λίγο, για να επαναπροωθηθούν στην Ελλάδα 25 πρόσφυγες από τη Συρία και το Ιράκ.

Τα άτομα αυτά είχαν περάσει νόμιμα τα σύνορα στις 3 Μαρτίου, όταν επιτρεπόταν η διέλευση, αλλά εγκλωβίστηκαν στα σύνορα της Σερβίας. Αστυνομικοί τους γύρισαν στα Σκόπια και η ΠΓΔΜ τους επέστρεψε το πρωί στην Ελλάδα δια... της πλαγίας οδού. Άνοιξαν ένα σημείο του φράχτη και ανάγκασαν τα 25 άτομα να μπουν στην Ειδομένη...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest PatrickT

Those savage beats tried to storm the boarder again.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa5AgufPa2E

 

I have highest respect for Macedonia and their border patrol. They defend europe against those primitives. Its typical that no greek police could be seen. I think greece should finally kicked out of EU ad Macedonia take its rightful place. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest PatrickT

They're despicable, treating kids as if they're criminals.

 

kids? you call stone throwing, allahu akbar shouting terrorists who want invade europe "kids"?

 

Is this a kid for you as well?

 

7780605494_salah-abdeslam-aurait-cherche

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

They're despicable, treating kids as if they're criminals.

 

 

The Macedonians deserve praise and respect.

What would you do if a mob shows up at your door and tries to force their way into you house?

Would you just let them pass because some among them grab babies and threaten to use them as projectiles?

And then what? In a best case scenario they will hunker down and trash your place and make life for you and your family unbearable in a worst case scenario you can watch them gangrape your wife and daugther and then they slit your throat. Would you take the risk of that happening or would you rather defend your domain with all you've got?

 

Lets get real here. The well being of their babies is none of your concern. Your obligation is to the well being of your family and your people. And that's exactly what the Macedonians did. They defended their domain and did not defer the handling of the angry mob to their northern neighbors in Serbia. The purpose of security forces is "TO SECURE" against trespassers not to hide and watch them get their way as the Greek police does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

η αλήθεια να λεγεται εδω

 πρώτον οι σκοπιανοι ΔΕΝ είναι μακεδόνες, και οτι τους αποκαλείς έτσι ειναι ντροπή σου

δευτερον καλα κάνουν οι σκοπιανοι , απο την πλευρα τους, και προστατεύουν τα σύνορα τους, και δεν μπορεί κανείς να τους κατηγορίσει για αυτό

τρίτον όταν πυροβολούν με σφαίρες καουτσούκ μικρά παιδάκια και εγγυες γυναίκες, τους καθιστά εξίσου ζωα με τα διαλεκτά τσογλάνια που θέλουν να πετάξουν μωρά ενάντια τους

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Οι κάτοικοι της Μακεδονίας είναι Μακεδόνες σε αντίθεση με τους κατοίκους της βορειοκεντρικής Ελλάδας οι οποίοι είναι, κατά πλειοψηφία, πρόσφυγες από την δυτική Ασία.  Σαν τους Σύριους δηλαδή.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Οι κατοικοι του Φυρομ ειναι 100% σλαβοι κι Αλβανοι. Οι κατοικοι της Ελληνικης Μακεδονιας ειναι ενα μιγμα απο διαφορες φυλες, Ελληνες, Σλαβοι, Αλβανοι, ποντιοι κλπ. κλπ. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

ΒΟΗΘΕΙΣΤΕ ΤΟ HELLENISM.NET!

Εάν σας ενδιαφέρει να γίνετε ενεργό μέλος του Hellenism.Net σαν moderator στο forum, ή αν σας ενδιαφέρει να γράφετε άρθρα/κείμενα στους λογαριασμούς Facebook, Twitter και Google+ του Hellenism.Net, ή αν ασχολείστε με προγραμματισμό ιστοσελίδων, τότε επικοινωνήστε μαζί μας!

Χρειαζόμαστε εθελοντές για να κρατησουμε το  Hellenism.Net ζωντανό!

Follow us

Hellenism.Net Facebook Feed

×