solving the refugee crisis

[Guest eyoismos]

I read in an article that Greece spent $2 billion on the migrants. The article does not say what is the source of that info. The actual amount is probably bigger. In any case, it is money Greece should have spent on Greeks instead of the migrants. Not to count all the lost tourism and business to Greeks on the islands especially.

 

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160209/1034468673/erdogan-eu-refugee-deal.html

 

spunik news is only around since 2014, and based in russia. so relative impartiality is yet to be proved

 

but it does suggest what i have been saying all along .... be f'ing careful of turkey and her Turkish bazaar type politics

[Guest FriendofGreece]

Thanks for letting me know. I never believe any one single source of news, though, as you know. 

[admin 31]

Interesting article arguing that we're coming to the end of the Merkel era: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/11/opinion/the-end-of-the-merkel-era.html?ref=international&_r=1

 

What's next? It's pretty worrisome seeing many far right-wing parties gaining ground all over Europe. Germany is no different.

[Guest eyoismos]

what is it you find surprising and worrisome, as you call it?

 

when the right wingers fuck up, the lefties gain ground

 

its only natural that when the left cocks up, the right wingers gain ground

 

you dont have to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out

[admin 31]

Germany doesn't have a left wing government.

[Guest eyoismos]

technically true .... BUT

 

lets face it, the CDU is very much a big-tent kind of party, and this whole refugee thing is so left, it would make one's head spin. but what most catch-all type of parties, like the CDU, cant realize or grasp as a concept, ... you just cant always have your cake and eat it too. something somewhere along the line is going to crack

[Guest PatrickT]

Germany doesn't have a left wing government.

 

Merkel is more left than the left party. Thats the basic fact and thats why he fails. The next chancellor will be a hard right wing chancellor. 

 

On a sidenote i find it funny that evrything i said is going on right now. Macedonia closes its boarder and gets support from EU. Greece is isolated and basicly under quarantine. Used as a giant camp and waste fill. 

[admin 31]

Nothing of what you said is true. FYROM is irrelevant and out of the equation. Greece has received financial support, and also support from NATO to control the flow of refugees from Turkey through Aegean. 

[Guest eyoismos]

καλά .... με σοβαρολογείς που προσπαθείς να μιλήσεις λογικά με το μουνόπανο ;

 

πάρε δυο ασπιρίνες και μέχρι αύριο θα σου έχει περάσει ο πονοκέφαλος που σου έχει δώσει η τρολλάρα

[Guest PatrickT]

Nothing of what you said is true. FYROM is irrelevant and out of the equation. Greece has received financial support, and also support from NATO to control the flow of refugees from Turkey through Aegean. 

 

 

you are as clownish as this eyosimus guy. They currently send several hundred million € to close boarder between greece and macedonia. Macedonia is a real nation. Greece some bimbo nation and failed state. 

 

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/f882340c-ccb8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377.html#axzz405H4pESE

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35557750

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/30/greece-threatened-closure-eu-border-dystopia

 

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160119/1033357238/germany-austria-border.html

 

Germany, Austria Planning to Close Greek-Macedonian Border to Refugees

 

http://www.politico.eu/article/juncker-drops-greece-bets-on-macedonia-eu-migration-refugees-asylum-european-union-schengen/

 

 

Refugees should stay in Greece rather than making their way to Germany.

By

FLORIAN EDER

 

1/26/16, 12:41 PM CET

 

Updated 

1/27/16, 4:48 PM CET

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker wants to put the EU’s southern frontier in all but name in Macedonia, not Greece.

In a letter sent Monday, Juncker backed Slovenia’s proposal for EU support to reinforce the Macedonian border with Greece to stem the northward flow of migrants. Under this plan, most migrants who got to Greece would stay in place, taking pressure off transfer countries but eventually also from Austria and Germany.

 

“I welcome your suggestion,” Juncker wrote to Slovenia’s Prime Minister Miro Cerar, assuring him of the Commission’s support for his plan for all EU countries to “provide assistance to the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia authorities to support controls on the border with Greece through the secondment of police/law enforcement officers, and the provision of equipment.” POLITICO saw a copy of the letter.

As Macedonia isn’t a member of the EU, Juncker said EU countries would have to reach bilateral agreements with the government in Skopje to dispatch police to the border with Greece. The rules in place for the EU’s border protection agency only allowed for missions within the EU, not for the “deployment of officers in the framework of a Frontex joint operation on the territory of a third country.”

Juncker’s proposals for strengthening Frontex, made last December, would address this “shortcoming,” as Juncker said, and pave the way for Frontex missions outside EU territory.

In the letter, Juncker said countries along the Western Balkan migration route, whether EU members or not, must stop “waving through refugees without informing a neighbouring country,” which is “not acceptable.” Greece has been harshly criticised by Germany and Austria, who warned that it could be excluded from the Schengen zone unless it did more to control its  southern as well as northern borders.

Juncker stated that access to countries all along the route should be denied to those not eligible for asylum or international protection. With regard to migrants who have already made it to Europe, EU states “and non-EU countries on the Western Balkans route should also actively prevent third-country nationals from leaving their territory in an unauthorised manner by crossing the border outside the border crossing points, or before their legal status is determined,” he said.

Greece’s minister for migration, Ioannis Mouzalas, told the Financial Times Monday that Athens had not been consulted on the Slovenian plan.

“We do not intend to become a cemetery of souls here. We cannot understand what kind of policy it is that a country would close its borders with Greece,” Mouzalas said.

 

 

 

I really came to the final conclusion that all greeks sseem to be completly braindead. We even send police and troops now there to close the boarder to greece. Yet you clowns sit there and sing "lalla evrything is fine".

 

Time for a reality check, your shithole nation is currently sealed off. 

 

The most funny part is, that its same procedure as last year. I told you guys we will crush greece. We will close the banks and let them starve. You said na na na we will give by. We make referendum and find a solution bla bla bla. 

Tsipras told idiotic greeks germany would have to accept the referendum...

 

The day when greeks voted against our program:

 

 

 

Two days later the "Oxi-Party" was over. Germany forced the ECB to cut of greece from the system and banks closed.

 

 

 

 

 

We made your grandparents to act like pathetic beggars. 

 

In the end greece signed an even harder deal that its people voted no. total capitulation.

 

 

And now same happenes again.

 

 

 

[Guest eyoismos]

.....  total capitulation.

 

 

And now same happenes again.

 

 

περίεργο πράγμα λοιπόν πόσο εύκολα αυτοσυγχαίρονται όλα τα μουνόπανο όταν καταστρέφουν ανθρωπότητα και νομίζουν οτι έχουν επιτυχιες με τα βρώμικα παιχνίδια τους

 

 

και το χειρότερο απ´ όλα  γελάνε που κατάφεραν αυτά που κατάφεραν

 

 

 

And now same happenes again.

αλλά όπως έχει διδάξει η ιστορία, επανειλημμένως, σε κάποια φάση, όλα τα μουνιά γαμιούνται

[Guest FriendofGreece]

Tear-gas should not be sprayed on Greeks who try to protect their country against the illegal migrants and the hypocritical imposition of the EU.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1252674/Greece-Police-tear-gas-anti-refugee-protesters-Kos.html

[Επισκέπτης]

To Vima:

 

Η υπό Γερμνανικήν Διεύθυνση περιπολία των Νατοϊκών – ναυτικών δυνάμεων στο Αιγαίο, πέραν των γκρίζων ζωνών που θα δημιουργήσουν μεταξύ Ελλάδας και Τουρκίας αποτελεί μια ανιστόρητη ομολογία της κυβέρνησης ότι είναι ανίκανη να διαφυλάξει τα εθνικά σύνορά. Γι’ αυτό είμαι σίγουρος ότι η στρατιωτική μας ηγεσία δεν αισθάνεται περήφανη. Και βέβαια η πολιτική ηγεσία ας αναλογισθεί τις ευθύνες της.

 

Aλήθεια ποιος θα τολμούσε να σκεφθεί ότι η αριστερή διακυβέρνηση του ΣΥΡΙΖΑ θα καλούσε το ΝΑΤΟ για να ελέγχει και προστατεύει τα θαλάσσια σύνορα μας; Aυτά μόνο στη ΄΄ Χώρα των Θαυμάτων ΄΄ συμβαίνουν. Δηλαδή άλλα να λες και άλλα να κάνεις.

 

Λυπάμαι εκφράζω τη βαθειά ανησυχία μου, ότι πορευόμαστε στα εθνικά μας θέματα, χωρίς πυξίδα και στρατηγική. Κοινώς, παρακολουθούμε τις εξελίξεις και τώρα πλέον είναι φανερό ότι η «μισητή» μέχρι χθες κα Μέρκελ έχει γίνει αναντικατάστατος ρυθμιστής και σε μείζονα εθνικά μας θέματα. Τηλεφωνικά θα τα λέει με τον

 

Πρωθυπουργό μας και θα χαράσσετε η εθνική στρατηγική μας κατά τις βουλές της σήμερα στο Αιγαίο, αύριο με τη FYROM κ.λ.π.

 

Η «μισητή» μέχρι χθες ευρωπαϊκή ηγεσία, (βλέπε πάλι την κα. Μέρκελ), αφού διαπίστωσε ότι με την FRONTEX δεν έγιναν σοβαρά πράγματα στο Αιγαίο, αφού τα hotspots δεν ολοκληρώθηκαν στο χρόνο τους, στέλνει το ΝΑΤΟ στο Αιγαίο για περιπολίες και η πολιτική μας ηγεσία δεν συμφωνεί απλά, αλλά και πανηγυρίζει. Βρε πως αλλάξανε τα πράγματα και ο Μανωλιός έβαλε τα ρούχα του αλλιώς.

 

 

Keep the Greek pride parade going all you want guys. The reality is Greece is shit and Syriza Alexi is the bigest turd this shitty place has produced to date. Greece is swirling down the crapper and most here still engage in apologetics.

[Guest FriendofGreece]

No to hotspots and no to the illegal migrants entering Greece. As I mentioned before, it is a crucial time for Greece. The migrants have to be stopped from landing in Greece. These are illegal invaders, not refugees.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/12156020/I-could-walk-around-starkers-if-I-wanted-to-nobody-cared.-That-peace-of-mind-has-gone.html

 

"Panos Kammenos, the defence minister, has said he fears that Greece could be turned into “a concentration camp, a warehouse for humans.”

Mr Gerasklis, the deputy mayor, is pessimistic about the next 12 months.

He points to the fact that Brussels has unveiled plans to send back to Greece tens of thousands of migrants who reached EU countries, under a rule known as the Dublin regulation which states that they should have applied for asylum in the first EU country they reached.

'I think we are going to have two million refugees coming to this country in 2016, including the migrants who may be repatriated from elsewhere in Europe. It’s going to be a very difficult year for the whole of Greece, not just Kos.' ”

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/greece-hotspots-refugee-registration_us_56bb8899e4b0b40245c506b9

[Guest PatrickT]

lol

[Επισκέπτης]

No to hotspots and no to the illegal migrants entering Greece. As I mentioned before, it is a crucial time for Greece. The migrants have to be stopped from landing in Greece. These are illegal invaders, not refugees.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/12156020/I-could-walk-around-starkers-if-I-wanted-to-nobody-cared.-That-peace-of-mind-has-gone.html

 

"Panos Kammenos, the defence minister, has said he fears that Greece could be turned into “a concentration camp, a warehouse for humans.”

Mr Gerasklis, the deputy mayor, is pessimistic about the next 12 months.

He points to the fact that Brussels has unveiled plans to send back to Greece tens of thousands of migrants who reached EU countries, under a rule known as the Dublin regulation which states that they should have applied for asylum in the first EU country they reached.

'I think we are going to have two million refugees coming to this country in 2016, including the migrants who may be repatriated from elsewhere in Europe. It’s going to be a very difficult year for the whole of Greece, not just Kos.' ”

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/greece-hotspots-refugee-registration_us_56bb8899e4b0b40245c506b9

Perhaps you should also mention that this is the same Panos Kammenos who was threatening to send ISIS terrorists to Germany last year.

And isn't he the guy who was saying Greece's sovereignity is not negotiable while his boss Alexi insisted that there is no such thing as sea borders?

Turns out there are sea borders and the command over the border patrols in the east Aegean is now in the hands of a German task force. And it gets even funnier: Alexi and Panos present this as an accomplishment!

 

The Greeks are getting what they deserve. They have voted those clowns into office after all. Not Once but TWICE.

[Guest FriendofGreece]

The illegal invaders:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHAqCw9rXsQ

[Guest FriendofGreece]

Bravo Golden Dawn:

 

 

Greece needs a leader who stands for the Greeks and nobody else.

[Guest FriendofGreece]

Ajaxmonkey, I do not follow a lot Greek politics. I don't care for politicians. All I see is that the Greek people are suffering with austerity and with the migrants. I don't know why they vote for such and such politicians, people may put their trust in someone on an unfounded basis, in the hope that something better will happen. It happens all the time with elections. 

 

The Greek elite, the rich, the educated have all left Greece already. Those who remain are those who cannot afford to leave, or those who love their country and remain in the land of their ancestors. If diaspora Greeks can help Greece and Greeks in any way, please do. They need your help and they need it now. It is not the time to point fingers at them from the comfort and safety of the host countries where you live.

 

As for me, I am just an outsider. It does not change my life one iota the direction where Greece goes. But if you call yourself a Greek, my question is what can you do for your country and countrymen?

[Επισκέπτης]

Ajaxmonkey, I do not follow a lot Greek politics. I don't care for politicians. All I see is that the Greek people are suffering with austerity and with the migrants. I don't know why they vote for such and such politicians, people may put their trust in someone on an unfounded basis, in the hope that something better will happen. It happens all the time with elections. 

 

The Greek elite, the rich, the educated have all left Greece already. Those who remain are those who cannot afford to leave, or those who love their country and remain in the land of their ancestors. If diaspora Greeks can help Greece and Greeks in any way, please do. They need your help and they need it now. It is not the time to point fingers at them from the comfort and safety of the host countries where you live.

 

As for me, I am just an outsider. It does not change my life one iota the direction where Greece goes. But if you call yourself a Greek, my question is what can you do for your country and countrymen?

 

That's the problem you have no idea whats going on but that doesn't seem to prevent you from having strong opinions.

Yes there are Greeks who are suffering but there are even more who get money for nothing. Greece is a country of 10 mil and has 500.000 people who were send into retirement at 50. On average they would receive a pension of 1400 Euros a month while they would  pay around 30 euros into the pension system for the required 15 years they worked. That was how Pasok would buy voters. Austerity came and those guys lost 20% of the pensions they did not deserve in the first place. So they, together with the public sector roaches voted for Syriza. And now we have Alexi putting unvearable burdens on the few who are still trying to work in Greece so that he can continue to give freebies to the army of muchers that keeps him in power. That's the only thing he cares about. He doesn't give a shit about Greece being overun or sold out as long as he can be in office. This is how Greece works and whoever goes defending this shit is a moron.

[Guest PatrickT]

Ajax i have a question for you. Where does this idiocy come from? I mean i told teh morons here last summer that their referendum will be their doom. Yet they brushed it off and believed that germany is bound to pay greeks debt because the greeks referendum has some magical power on the german decission process to not support freeloading. The referendum was done and germany virtually crushed greece. Tsipras agreed to things much harder than the referendum he hold few days earlier. 

 

Now same happenes again. Greece voted against boarder security and allows evryone in. Fat Dude Panos even threatened to send Terrorists to germany. I said few weeks ago greece will be made the dumping ground and open air concentration camp. Macedonia will be the new frontline. It wasn´t even secret. german media reported it again and again. Yet the greek idiots were like: nothing what you say is trueee!!!! la la la la

 

Now the boarder closes. Greece is sealed off, a giant camp and germany and turkey close its sea boarder. 

 

I mean seriously...

[Επισκέπτης]

Ajax i have a question for you. Where does this idiocy come from? I mean i told teh morons here last summer that their referendum will be their doom. Yet they brushed it off and believed that germany is bound to pay greeks debt because the greeks referendum has some magical power on the german decission process to not support freeloading. The referendum was done and germany virtually crushed greece. Tsipras agreed to things much harder than the referendum he hold few days earlier. 

 

Now same happenes again. Greece voted against boarder security and allows evryone in. Fat Dude Panos even threatened to send Terrorists to germany. I said few weeks ago greece will be made the dumping ground and open air concentration camp. Macedonia will be the new frontline. It wasn´t even secret. german media reported it again and again. Yet the greek idiots were like: nothing what you say is trueee!!!! la la la la

 

Now the boarder closes. Greece is sealed off, a giant camp and germany and turkey close its sea boarder. 

 

I mean seriously...

You may not want to hear this but at the end it was EU (mainly German) money that led to this situation. In the 80's Andreas Papandreou showed up and promised the good life and the Greeks gave it a try. Papandreous promises would prove hollow and the realization that there is no free lunch would have prevailed if it wasn't for the enablers in Europe. The Europeans were so obsessed with EU expansion that they dumbed ridiculus amounts of money into Greece.

 

Papandreou would use this to deliver on his promises and so a whole Generation of Greeks grew up with the experience that you can have everything without doing a thing. This went on for close to 30 years and greated a generation that was conditioned to expect freebies. This generation has now the political power in Greece. It wouldn't have come to this whithout the enablers in the EU.

[Guest PatrickT]

You may not want to hear this but at the end it was EU (mainly German) money that led to this situation. In the 80's Andreas Papandreou showed up and promised the good life and the Greeks gave it a try. Papandreous promises would prove hollow and the realization that there is no free lunch would have prevailed if it wasn't for the enablers in Europe. The Europeans were so obsessed with EU expansion that they dumbed ridiculus amounts of money into Greece.

 

Papandreou would use this to deliver on his promises and so a whole Generation of Greeks grew up with the experience that you can have everything without doing a thing. This went on for close to 30 years and greated a generation that was conditioned to expect freebies. This generation has now the political power in Greece. It wouldn't have come to this whithout the enablers in the EU.

 

Thats a point but it doesn´t explain the idiocy. They ignore each sign against them and sing their happy song. 

[admin 31]

This is not idiocy. It's called "personal interests". If I were given free money for 30 years in the row why would I accept to give it up and work for it instead? I'd fight tooth and nail to keep this beneficial arrangement going for me for as long as I can. Nothing wrong with this, it's human nature.

 

Ajax is right in this sense, that if the Europeans (Germans...) wanted to stop this from happening they should just stop bailing out Greece at some point and let them deal with reality. If you keep filling Tsipras' wallet with European loans then you'll keep him in power forever and undermine any chance of getting Greece out of this hole.

 

All this assuming that the Europeans want Greece out of this situation. Seeing that they keep pumping money into Greece and supporting the Tsipras government I'm starting to think that they may have a different plan and reasons for supporting Tsipras and maintaining the status quo in Greece.

[Guest FriendofGreece]

Ajaxmonkey, your personal insults just show your upbringing. 

[Guest eyoismos]

i beg to differ FoG

 

my theory is that some thing or things happened in the past, and now, not only Ajax puts all his eggs in the same basket, but on top of that, holds a grudge against all the eggs

[Guest eyoismos]

 i see that now both ajax and admin are now allowing themselves to see the others truths that they seem to have self-denied in the past

[Επισκέπτης]

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

 

My attitude and motivation don't matter. The source of the issue are the twisted Ideas, principles and paradigms that govern Greek society. Without the will to question and re-evaluate those Greece is gonne. And yet here you are "Pondering" my past, of which you know nothing, as if it were the root cause of Greece's demise. Small minds indeed! 

[Guest eyoismos]

and then there are warped minds, who somehow think that pondering about the reason for their attitudes for some reason are even remotely associated with anything to do with the root cause of greece's demise.

 

oh wait .... same thing as the many greeks .... and their attitudes ..... and the demise of greece

 

well blow me sideways .... i guess you are greek too

 

Small minds indeed! after all ... the apple never falls far from the tree

 

[Guest HappyAsHellas]

Greece wants to join the single currency.

Mr Draghi "massages" the books.

The EU doesn't check the figures as they are utterly inept.

Greece joins the land of milk and honey.

Lehman brothers go belly up in spectacular fashion.

Global financial carnage.

Greece is bankrupt.

So are German banks...............unless.....

A bailout package is announced.

The Greeks can never afford it.

Not to worry, 90% of the funds go to the (predominantly) German banks to pull them out the mire.

The Greek taxpayer is handed the bill.

Everyone denounces the Greeks for avoiding tax as the root of this evil.

Varoufakis says it can never be repaid with this scheme.

German financiers fill their pants as he is telling the truth.

Varoufakis is forced out and the financiers breathe easy again.

Tsipras signs a death warrant given to him by Schauble.

The bankers are still as powerful as ever.

Pretend and extend.

It will end in tears.