Jump to content
Hellenism.Net

 

Sign in to follow this  
Guest PatrickT

25 years german reunion

Recommended Posts

Guest PatrickT

Today germany celebrates the 25h year of reunion and so much has changed. My nation was 40 years divided and victim of great injustice. 25 years ago that injustice was corrected.

I´m from Rostock which is in the former east but i was born right after the reunion. So i´m the first generation of the reunited germany. I don´t know what east germany was like but know what my parents tell me. After all it wasn´t too bad. Life was ok but change had to happen. 

The first years after the reunion were really hard. I would say from 1990 - 2004. East germany suffered extremly in the first years. Many stateowned corporations ended and hundred thousands of people went unemployed.

Entire germany was bound with itself during this time. From 2005 onwards things improved and germany became the power it is today. 

Now we have 2015 and young germans like myself have no difference between east and west that much. Sure some issues are still there and will most likely exist through the next decades but the reunion changed not only germany but all of europe and the entire world in a positive way. 

Wonder what foreigners think about that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

The Einheit was definetely a step forward to Germany but I don't think the way it was implemented is, in the long run, beneficial for Germany. For one, Germany had to give up on the claims of her people who were uprooted from the Sudetenland and Schlesien. And then there was the transformation of the EU which in the wake of the Wiederverainigung morphed into a prison for the purpose of containing German National ambitions. So here we are today with Germany being the leading Economic power and paymaster of the Union but punching way below her wait in terms of political power. In this morphed EU Polish national ambitions are OK but German self interest is seen as a reawakening of the Evil Hunn. Regardless of the fact that the Polish economy would collapse without Germany, the French, Brits and Americans wield greater power in Warsaw than the Germans. And this is the same in all Eastern EU Countries.

 

When the EU is asking for solidatity, being in the Greek crisis or the Refugee issue, everybody is looking at Germany. And if the Germans are reluctant to shoulder the burdens they are called Nazis. I think that Germany will never reach her full potential as the leading Nation in Europe unless she breaks herself free from EU fetters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest PatrickT

nations always only serve their own interests. I only care for germany and have very little feelings toardsvthe rest of europe. And most germans think like i do. At the moment the EU is beneficial for us. We dominate it absolutely, funnel money from all othrs too us and the ongoing crisis holds the € low and pushs our exports. If that changes, you can be sire thatbthe EU will be dropped like a hot potato.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Today germany celebrates the 25h year of reunion and so much has changed. My nation was 40 years divided and victim of great injustice. 25 years ago that injustice was corrected.

 

 

 

Injustice? Are you kidding? Germany destroyed Europe...twice! Wiped out huge populations in several parts of Europe, single handedly eradicated all the large Jewish communities throughout Europe, burnt and pillaged most European countries, and you're talking about injustice done to Germany? Are you for real???

 

The allies instead of wiping Germany out of the map they helped rebuild your nation, they supported you financially through difficult times and helped Germany become what it is today. How can you possibly talk about injustice. Injustice is what Germany has brought to the rest of Europe in 2 world wars. 

 

But you know what? What goes around comes around. Europe, and the rest of the world is changing. Nations which were powerful in the past overtime fade into oblivion. One time the Egyptians had a great empire, then the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Byzantines, the Ottomans, the Austrians, the Brits, the Americans...soon the Chinese, but eventually all will rise and then fall. That's the nature of our changing world. Some will remain in the limelight for a few centuries, others for a few short decades. Nobody stays up forever. There's a rise, and then there's a fall. And more often than not most great empires crumble from the inside. Germany, or the US or China may not decline in our lifetime (even though never say never...), but eventually they will decline, as did all the great players before them. It's only natural.

 

What's to come next, who knows. Maybe a unified Europe, or a unified North America, or we may go back to fragmented small countries as is the trend lately with everyone wanting independence (see all the ex-communist eastern European countries, see the Basques, the Catalans, the Scotts, the Bavarians and who knows who else...).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest PatrickT

Injustice? Are you kidding? Germany destroyed Europe...twice! Wiped out huge populations in several parts of Europe, single handedly eradicated all the large Jewish communities throughout Europe, burnt and pillaged most European countries, and you're talking about injustice done to Germany? Are you for real???

 

The allies instead of wiping Germany out of the map they helped rebuild your nation, they supported you financially through difficult times and helped Germany become what it is today. How can you possibly talk about injustice. Injustice is what Germany has brought to the rest of Europe in 2 world wars. 

 

But you know what? What goes around comes around. Europe, and the rest of the world is changing. Nations which were powerful in the past overtime fade into oblivion. One time the Egyptians had a great empire, then the Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Byzantines, the Ottomans, the Austrians, the Brits, the Americans...soon the Chinese, but eventually all will rise and then fall. That's the nature of our changing world. Some will remain in the limelight for a few centuries, others for a few short decades. Nobody stays up forever. There's a rise, and then there's a fall. And more often than not most great empires crumble from the inside. Germany, or the US or China may not decline in our lifetime (even though never say never...), but eventually they will decline, as did all the great players before them. It's only natural.

 

What's to come next, who knows. Maybe a unified Europe, or a unified North America, or we may go back to fragmented small countries as is the trend lately with everyone wanting independence (see all the ex-communist eastern European countries, see the Basques, the Catalans, the Scotts, the Bavarians and who knows who else...).

 

 

WW I was not started from germany but we got all the blame after the war. Germany was treated badly and that was the direct reason for Hitler to rise to power. When you take all hope away from people, you grow extremism. 

 

And dividing a country is horrible. I know from my parents and grandparents what it is like to never visit family, to be basicly locked away. Human beings want freedom or feel unhappy. My grandma always dreamed about traveling around the world and this was only possible after 1990. I don´t think you can ever imagine how happy germans were when the wall came down.

 

mauer-berlin-daily-h.p.stie_.jpg?itok=ly

 

and now 25 years later:

 

2,w=559,c=0.bild.jpg

 

We can be very proud for that. Because its such a gigantic revoluition and not even one person died. 

 

Not evrything went perfect and smooth but who would have believed that our nation becomes the dominant nation in europe again, more powerful and whealthy than ever before. Enture europe is carried on our shoulders and i´m proud for that. 

 

siegessaeule_2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

Countries like Korea and Vietnam were also divided into two after the war, because of the big powers dividing their portions. Germany is not the only one which was divided. The difference is that Germans were the ones that committed many crimes because of their megalomania.

 

Whining about it being unfair and how unhappy the Germans were because of the division does not go down too well. It rather sounds unrepentent and childish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Patrick, if you were born and raised in what used to be Eastern Germany you'll probably know better than we do the situation of your compatriots in the East. 

There's an interesting article in the Guardian about this: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/02/german-reunification-25-years-on-how-different-are-east-and-west-really 

 

25 years later things have not really changed much in the core. East Germans are still much different than their western compatriots and it will take a long time before the 2 sides of Germany really unite in each and every way.

 

And just to make another point: it only took 45 years (between 1945 - 1990) to create such a huge divide in the lifestyles of two very similar (or the same if you want...) people, the Western and Eastern Germans. Imagine what 400 years under Ottoman rule did to the Greeks, or what 100 or more years of Russian rule did to the Ukrainians, Georgians etc.

 

I hope this will give you a bit of perspective, knowing that you were raised in an Eastern German family and you've heard the stories of bitterness your parents and grandparents have shared with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Patrick, if you were born and raised in what used to be Eastern Germany you'll probably know better than we do the situation of your compatriots in the East. 

There's an interesting article in the Guardian about this: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/02/german-reunification-25-years-on-how-different-are-east-and-west-really 

 

25 years later things have not really changed much in the core. East Germans are still much different than their western compatriots and it will take a long time before the 2 sides of Germany really unite in each and every way.

 

And just to make another point: it only took 45 years (between 1945 - 1990) to create such a huge divide in the lifestyles of two very similar (or the same if you want...) people, the Western and Eastern Germans. Imagine what 400 years under Ottoman rule did to the Greeks, or what 100 or more years of Russian rule did to the Ukrainians, Georgians etc.

 

I hope this will give you a bit of perspective, knowing that you were raised in an Eastern German family and you've heard the stories of bitterness your parents and grandparents have shared with you.

Ottoman rule did not cause Greek Backwardness. To the contrary. Compared to the Byzantine era the Ottomans were ultra progresive and Greece would be even more backward without the benefit of Ottoman ocuupation. And lets not forget that the Georgians put themselves voluntarily under Russian rule to avoid becoming Ottoman subjects. If this was a wise decision or not remains open to interpretation.

 

As far as Germany is concerned, there is no cultural divide in Germany the divide is purely economic in nature. A Saxon is no more different from a Hessian than lets say a Bavarian. But decades of Planwirtschaft did prevent the formation of an East German Elite of industrialist. As a result of that East Germany is under represented in the elite of unified Germany. In other words: The East Germans don't have much of a lobby in the country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest PatrickT

Patrick, if you were born and raised in what used to be Eastern Germany you'll probably know better than we do the situation of your compatriots in the East. 

There's an interesting article in the Guardian about this: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/02/german-reunification-25-years-on-how-different-are-east-and-west-really 

 

25 years later things have not really changed much in the core. East Germans are still much different than their western compatriots and it will take a long time before the 2 sides of Germany really unite in each and every way.

 

And just to make another point: it only took 45 years (between 1945 - 1990) to create such a huge divide in the lifestyles of two very similar (or the same if you want...) people, the Western and Eastern Germans. Imagine what 400 years under Ottoman rule did to the Greeks, or what 100 or more years of Russian rule did to the Ukrainians, Georgians etc.

 

I hope this will give you a bit of perspective, knowing that you were raised in an Eastern German family and you've heard the stories of bitterness your parents and grandparents have shared with you.

 

 

You don´t understand germany and thats ok. You never visited it nor do you know its culture or history. There is less differences in germany between east and west than between south and north. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest PatrickT

Countries like Korea and Vietnam were also divided into two after the war, because of the big powers dividing their portions. Germany is not the only one which was divided. The difference is that Germans were the ones that committed many crimes because of their megalomania.

 

Whining about it being unfair and how unhappy the Germans were because of the division does not go down too well. It rather sounds unrepentent and childish.

 

 

I have learned one thing, that the only thing that matters is your own happiness

 

The division was a crime against humanity and human rights and reunion one of our happiest moments. If you think you can throw dirt on that then you are mistaken. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

Division is not a crime against humanity and human rights as killing people is. It was totally justified and fair. I could not care less whether Germans are happy or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Division is not a crime against humanity and human rights as killing people is. It was totally justified and fair. I could not care less whether Germans are happy or not.

in other words, you vilify todays Germans collectively for crimes, imagined or real, that were comitted in a time when most of todays Germans were not even born. That's an almost NAZI like sense of justice. Don't you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

No. But I think that the present Germans should reflect on the acts of previous Germans, real criminal acts and not imagined. So what if the division does not allow going where they want or visiting whom they want? It is a little payment for much crimes that were committed, nobody is killing those present Germans, but I don't feel any sympathy for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

let me get this right .... before the wall came tumbling down , its wasnt germans shooting their compatriots who where trying to cross to the west ...wait ... dont tell me  .... it was the russians
 
also ....
 

While 75 percent of Germans who live in the east said they considered their country's reunification a success in a recent survey only half of western Germans agreed. And that's not the only distinction indicating that the separation of the past prevails today.

 

seems to me not everything is rosy and clear cut as what might be thought of at first value

 

for example ...

Screen-Shot-2014-10-31-at-06.20.43.png

 

we have the lowest unemployment rate ever, Of course you always have a core group of hardcore associals who can nothing and so are unemployed.

so that is what easterner thinks about easterners ?

Screen-Shot-2014-10-31-at-06.21.44.png

Screen-Shot-2014-10-31-at-06.21.44.png

This has led to a paradoxical situation: Many young people in rural eastern Germany say they are forced to move to the west or to larger eastern cities because of a lack of competitive wages and job opportunities. Consequently, many eastern German companies cannot find enough young trainees for entry-level positions and are now recruiting in Poland or the Czech Republic.

 

and yet pradoxically ...

Screen-Shot-2014-10-31-at-06.22.50.png

remind me again how many turks are in germany.... and how the figures soon are to be inflated even more ..

 

and the biggest paradox of all

Screen-Shot-2014-10-31-at-06.23.43.png

hmmmmm ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

but yes... overall i reckon reunification has done a pretty good job ...at least at the levels of the common man

middle to top echelons? well we are all very much familiar about the industry leaders and their attitudes and ethics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

to your information: Germany has been reunited a while ago and all Germans can travel wherever they want. And they do that a lot. But what amazes me is your twisted understanding of justice. You expect people to pay for crimes comitted before they were born?

 

Do you aply the same standarts to the Americans? Should todays americans "pay" for the crimes comitted against the native population or for the injustice of slavery? Or what about the French and the Brits or the Japanese should they be held responsible for crimes comitted by their forebearers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

uhm ... you saying the above stats/maps are wrong? remember ...they are from 2013 ... have things changed so much in 2 years

i dont think so

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

my twisted understanding of justice? seriously?

είπε ο γάϊδαρος τον πετεινό κεφάλα would be way more appropriate a response

 

as for the rest .... come on !!!!! you talk about native populations and slavery ,,, but i am am far more preoccupied with not exaclty saypmathising with neither the commies, or the nazis or the junta and its instigators and supports, and those that still havent got the fuck out of Cyprus ...amougnst others ..wont even bwgin talking about what the cia got up to in lets say south america or Guantanamo bay or non-existant weapons of mass destruction

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

you are jocking right? you do realize that the BRD and DDR where united in 1990?

yeah ... of course... but again the stats/maps  say 2013

what part dont you understand?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

my twisted understanding of justice? seriously?

είπε ο γάϊδαρος τον πετεινό κεφάλα would be way more appropriate a response

 

as for the rest .... come on !!!!! you talk about native populations and slavery ,,, but i am am far more preoccupied with not exaclty saypmathising with neither the commies, or the nazis or the junta and its instigators and supports, and those that still havent got the fuck out of Cyprus ...amougnst others ..wont even bwgin talking about what the cia got up to in lets say south america or Guantanamo bay or non-existant weapons of mass destruction

Oh boy! Are you being self-important again? Its not all about you eyo that post was a reply to the one made by FriendOfGreece. Can your ego deal with that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

so what you saying ? that those 400,000 plus greeks in germany dont count? or that god knows how many germans themselves visit out shores every summer? (over and over and over again i must add ) or how many German companies do business in greece ? (apart from you know what) or .... and all the rest

 

we like it or not hiding behind my finger is not my normal way of seeing matters

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

Oh boy! Are you being self-important again? Its not all about you eyo that post was a reply to the one made by FriendOfGreece. Can your ego deal with that?

 

then quote, so that we know who you are addressing, but i stand on what i said

can YOUR ego handle that?

but i apologize for not hitting the F5 key more often ... .and for showing my that my keyboard sometimes goes all wonky while i type :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

Ajaxmonkey, I think you make a big thing out of what I said. Even though some of the present Germans were not born at the time of the war, all I am saying is for the present Germans not to complain about something as the right to move around or to visit someone. Those rights were taken because of the crimes of previous Germans so live with it. That the division was made by the powers that were was a penalty on Germany, so is that not a payment they have to pay? Not me who invented it.

 

There is no need to talk about other people, simply because nobody divided America or Europe, them being the powers that be, or Japan - presumably Japan was useful to the Americans after the war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest PatrickT

Ajaxmonkey, I think you make a big thing out of what I said. Even though some of the present Germans were not born at the time of the war, all I am saying is for the present Germans not to complain about something as the right to move around or to visit someone. Those rights were taken because of the crimes of previous Germans so live with it. That the division was made by the powers that were was a penalty on Germany, so is that not a payment they have to pay? Not me who invented it.

 

There is no need to talk about other people, simply because nobody divided America or Europe, them being the powers that be, or Japan - presumably Japan was useful to the Americans after the war.

the good thing about being german is, that we are powerful enough to laugh about moronic statements like yours. And no, we did not pay. We crushed the wall down and fought for freedom. We are human beings. We fight for freedom. And honestly speaking, your "sympathy" is worthless and your opinion as well. You may come from weak ancestors, that accept evrything. But we don't.

 

P.s: keep in mind when you visit greece next time, you visit a german colony. A colony where we dictate them evrything. And they accept it as payment for their past crimes. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest FriendofGreece

Don't worry, Germany is going down the drain with all the migrants you have. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest PatrickT

Don't worry, Germany is going down the drain with all the migrants you have. 

 

 

Would be worse if we had as much greeks. It would take a long time before we reach that shit status that greece has. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest eyoismos

actually took a couple of years ....twice in the last century in fact.... and much bloodshed  ... and if it wasnt for the rest of europe you would still be there ...so i suggest you take that palouki out of your ass and get off your high horse of delusion

 

every nation fucks up throughout history .... your is no different

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

ΒΟΗΘΕΙΣΤΕ ΤΟ HELLENISM.NET!

Εάν σας ενδιαφέρει να γίνετε ενεργό μέλος του Hellenism.Net σαν moderator στο forum, ή αν σας ενδιαφέρει να γράφετε άρθρα/κείμενα στους λογαριασμούς Facebook, Twitter και Google+ του Hellenism.Net, ή αν ασχολείστε με προγραμματισμό ιστοσελίδων, τότε επικοινωνήστε μαζί μας!

Χρειαζόμαστε εθελοντές για να κρατησουμε το  Hellenism.Net ζωντανό!

Follow us

Hellenism.Net Facebook Feed

×