anti german hate in greece hits unknown levels

[Guest daman]

really?

no shit Sherlock ! and yet you dare to speak about greece and greeks and who they elected with such authority

 

wont even bother with the rest .... but thanks for reconfirming my assessment of you, as well - just like for dino

 

...which pretty much says it all ...

 

 

that sums you up in spades with most of your pathetic posts and demonstrated attitudes baring witness to that

guess in your little world, you never experienced the idea that some actually fight back, and wont tolerate your crap

 

must really burn you what you have encountered here, and often leaves you steaming that some wont let you get away with it

[Guest PatrickT]

Looks like im not the only german who was annoyed from the anti german hate commercials shown in athens sub system.

 

There is an article about it in Focus magazine today

 

http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/sie-draengen-weiter-auf-reparationszahlungen-griechenland-schuert-mit-weltkriegs-video-anti-deutsche-stimmung_id_4686093.html

 

In short:greek regime fuels anti-german hate with hate video. An article in "Der Spiegel" already adviced that german tourists should not go greece anymore and that greek products should be boycotted. Greek vegetables like aspargus already rott away here because people avoid it even when it is the cheapest.

 

Meanwhile we have reports here that the greek foreign minister begs his own embassies all around the world to send money back to greece. Not more than 100 banknotes per letter, if bank transfer is nit possible.

 

Considering the fact that greek business is already on the floor i wonder what exactly the greek regime tries to achieve with stomping on its tourism and agriculture branches.

[Guest eyoismos]

http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/sie-draengen-weiter-auf-reparationszahlungen-griechenland-schuert-mit-weltkriegs-video-anti-deutsche-stimmung_id_4686093.html

 

ε λοιπόν είσαι μεγάλο νούμερο ...μιλάμε άλλο εξωδιαστημικό πράγμα .... δεν μου λες .... πόσες φορές πρέπει να σου πούμε οτι άρθρα στα γερμανικά δεν λένε τίποτα σε μας ; ...εκτός από εσένα και τον αίαντα .... κοινώς αρλαμπουρνέζικα και δεν δίνουμε καμία βάση για καμία συζήτηση --- επαναλαμβάνω μιά ακόμα φορά , επειδή μου φαίνεται, και τουλάχιστον να υποψιάζομαι σοβαρά,  το μυαλό σου δεν έχει ούτε την δυνατότητα ή την ικανότητα να καταλάβει μερικά βασικά .... γράφε στα ελληνικά ή στα αγγλικά για να καταλαβαινόμαστε ...αλλοίως ας αρχίσω να γράφω εδώ στα ζουλού ... και τότε "Αλάτισε τον κώλο σου και ρώτα τι βρωμάει." που λέει μιά ελληνικη παροιμία

 

άσε πού άλλα βλέπεις, , άλλα ερμηνεύεις και αλλα καταλαβαίνεις ... και φυσικά και επιπλέον ...  επιβεβάιωση μιάς άλλης ελληνικής παροιμίας ... "όποιος έχει μύγα μυγιάζεται"

 

άντε τώρα

 

αλλά άσε ... θα αρχίσεις πάλι με τις κατηγορίες για βρυσιές και προσβολές εκ μέρους μας  ... οπότε ... σε παραπέμπω στην πρώτη παροιμία ... μπάς και καταλάβεις επιτέλους

[Guest PatrickT]

ε λοιπόν είσαι μεγάλο νούμερο ...μιλάμε άλλο εξωδιαστημικό πράγμα .... δεν μου λες .... πόσες φορές πρέπει να σου πούμε οτι άρθρα στα γερμανικά δεν λένε τίποτα σε μας ; ...εκτός από εσένα και τον αίαντα .... κοινώς αρλαμπουρνέζικα και δεν δίνουμε καμία βάση για καμία συζήτηση --- επαναλαμβάνω μιά ακόμα φορά , επειδή μου φαίνεται, και τουλάχιστον να υποψιάζομαι σοβαρά,  το μυαλό σου δεν έχει ούτε την δυνατότητα ή την ικανότητα να καταλάβει μερικά βασικά .... γράφε στα ελληνικά ή στα αγγλικά για να καταλαβαινόμαστε ...αλλοίως ας αρχίσω να γράφω εδώ στα ζουλού ... και τότε "Αλάτισε τον κώλο σου και ρώτα τι βρωμάει." που λέει μιά ελληνικη παροιμία

 

άσε πού άλλα βλέπεις, , άλλα ερμηνεύεις και αλλα καταλαβαίνεις ... και φυσικά και επιπλέον ...  επιβεβάιωση μιάς άλλης ελληνικής παροιμίας ... "όποιος έχει μύγα μυγιάζεται"

 

άντε τώρα

 

αλλά άσε ... θα αρχίσεις πάλι με τις κατηγορίες για βρυσιές και προσβολές εκ μέρους μας  ... οπότε ... σε παραπέμπω στην πρώτη παροιμία ... μπάς και καταλάβεις επιτέλους

 

 

[Guest daman]

[Guest eyoismos]

no ... just a plain old dumbass troll ....and nobody seems to believe me

 

i mean really .... i pretty much politely already told him ...

 

 

sorry its all greek to me ...oops... i meant all "spanish" to me, (so you can understand)

so i cant comment - no english or greek subtitles

 

 

........

 

if you are going to post, at least make an effort to post something that we both can understand - afterall this is a greek website where everybody posts in english or greek

 

and if i sometimes post in greek ... it has never been addressed to you, or concern you ...besides .. like i said ...greek site ... but if actually interested ... try google translate

 

 otherwise .... its like me posting in bantu on some german site ...absurd to say the least

 

but typical of trolls ... he totally ignored what i suggested ...and  then has the nerve and audacity AGAIN gave us another german link

 

so i answered him in greek ... maybe ... i thought oh so foolishly ....that he would actually get the message

 

but i guess he thought he was being clever by showing us a picture of him and that little girl and a snippy little quote underneath that

 

its almost tempting now to have another dig about certain germans never wanting to listen to anything anybody else might say, and everything must be their way or the highway ... you know all that "might is right" bullshit that he often adores to quote

 

but i will resist the temptation and i wont

 

[Guest PatrickT]

In case you did not notice, i translated the link in short into english. Also the video shown has greek letters written on it. How do you expect me to find greek news? I dont speak greek.

 

Beside that, no im not a troll. This is a grek forum. I'm interested in german - greek relationship. I brought up so,ething that i felt not so happy about when i was in greece. Your problem is that you cant take criticism.

[Guest eyoismos]

oh please spare me and us all with the bullshit

 

you honestly think i didnt feed those couple of sentences through google translate?

 

the headline talks about anti-german sentiment NOT hate ...the first paragraph, short as it it, talks about german tourists need strong nerves .... etc etc and that i gathered from a terrible google translate

 

and there is no way in hell of being ofputting the video clip through google translate, at least not yet

 

but that is not thew point,. the point is that your translations stink to high heaven...and at this point, considering your history here in Hellenism ....nobody in their right mind would trust your "translations" , let alone your interpretations, with a ten foot pole

 

and of course you where not happy about the videos. but then remind me again why such moves by the greek government got up to this (a move by the way, by the way, that many in the opposition strongly opposed, and rightly so)....

 

could it be that somebody doesnt listen as well from the other side, thus forcing them to make more people aware what happened. not only addressing to greeks who seem to have conveniently forgotten, but to all visitors...most of which ALSO seem to have forgotten

 

you are the last person I, and many others, would even care to take criticism from, when accepting criticism is not reciprocated ....especially when real shitty and ultra-biased translations are given by you as sentiment of a whole nation

[Guest PatrickT]

oh please spare me and us all with the bullshit

 

you honestly think i didnt feed those couple of sentences through google translate?

 

the headline talks about anti-german sentiment NOT hate ...the first paragraph, short as it it, talks about german tourists need strong nerves .... etc etc and that i gathered from a terrible google translate

 

and there is no way in hell of being ofputting the video clip through google translate, at least not yet

 

but that is not thew point,. the point is that your translations stink to high heaven...and at this point, considering your history here in Hellenism ....nobody in their right mind would trust your "translations" , let alone your interpretations, with a ten foot pole

 

and of course you where not happy about the videos. but then remind me again why such moves by the greek government got up to this (a move by the way, by the way, that many in the opposition strongly opposed, and rightly so)....

 

could it be that somebody doesnt listen as well from the other side, thus forcing them to make more people aware what happened. not only addressing to greeks who seem to have conveniently forgotten, but to all visitors...most of which ALSO seem to have forgotten

 

you are the last person I, and many others, would even care to take criticism from, when accepting criticism is not reciprocated ....especially when real shitty and ultra-biased translations are given by you as sentiment of a whole nation

 

 

What if i tell you that i don´t care about what happened 70 years ago? I don´t care about it. It doesn´t bother me and nobody else in germany. I could say we don´t give a shit, but that would be rude. This videos gain nothing for greece but generate a backlash and hurts greek economy. I´m in my early 20th. If you think some bad WW II videos melt my heart then you are mistaken. Not my time, not my business. We own greece nothing. 

 

Beside that, we do listen to the greek side. But they only talk rubbish and our government made the conclusion that we pull our program through. If greece doesn´t like it, it can always chose to go bancrupt. Greece finance minister Varoufakis said that would push greece back into the stone age. It is free to do this step. 

 

Our government is responsible for german interests. And it does whats best for germany. Thats what they are elected for. Actually they do a great job. Beside that our austerity program worked in all nations. Ireland, Portugal, Spain and even italy have economic growth. Spain even has the biggest growth rates in the entire EU.

 

Greece too had good economic prospects. It had the biggest growth rates of all EU nations, before the communist-nazi coalition went into office. Of course now all that collapsed and greece faces death. But thats not our business. Its the greeks government business. And so far the greek government holds no power over the german budget. So if we decide, after listening to them, that we don´t want pay. We won´t pay. 

 

Beside that, its fun to watch. 

[Guest eyoismos]

It had the biggest growth rates of all EU nations ? what? based on loans? what kind of growth is that? ESPECIALLY considering those loans have shown nothing to justify any resulting delusional growth rate based on moneylenders fancy graphs

 

hardly

 

before the communist-nazi coalition went into office? seriously ? the greek economy was already fucked up before then.... the new government if anything revealed the obvious to the rest of the world what they pretty much inherited .... this does NOT translate to support, as you so obviously nd systematically imply, NOR does it suggest that they are, even taking an extreme view of whateve nature, dubiously "successful" in some of there dealings 0 logical or illogical - always ccording to the eye of the beholder, and subject to interprettion, based on preconceived notions and ideas and ideologies, possible or perceived, and feelings of possible threats to the status quo , supported or not ....hell.... there is even big discontent withing its own rankings - there is a reason for that

 

...... and that bit about nazi ....priceless .... right wing dos NOT translate nazi...it means right wing. if you want to talk nazi , at least have the intelligence to talk about golden dawn

 

i have said it before, and i will say it again .... you are a prime victim of Godwin's Law ....and AGAIN you reaffirm it - its painfully obvious you havent a clue what nazism is all about

 

and you can deny as much as you want about ww2 but the fact remains ...there are a hell of a lot of people , and i mean a shit load, that are alive today and have lived those times, and having to deal with the consequences of those horrible times

 

denying caring about the attrocities of nazism is like denying the atrocities that where undertaken by the russians at the tail of the war ... or are you going to deny the reason why this sentiment of russia being the enemy has nothing to do with those horrible times .... because if you do ...you are a fool hiding behinds your little finger as a greek saying goes

 

EVERYTHING is interlinked.....ESPECIALLY as in involves a period of only 70 years ....when memories are still very fresh in many of peoples mind, and i mean MANY people, people that are still living ...and remembering .... and not forgetting.... and i cannot get it round my head that it is any different in many germans too. i reckon its very much alive

 

but then there are always those that ...well..... dont care

[Guest PatrickT]

It had the biggest growth rates of all EU nations ? what? based on loans? what kind of growth is that? ESPECIALLY considering those loans have shown nothing to justify any resulting delusional growth rate based on moneylenders fancy graphs

 

hardly

 

before the communist-nazi coalition went into office? seriously ? the greek economy was already fucked up before then.... the new government if anything revealed the obvious to the rest of the world what they pretty much inherited .... this does NOT translate to support, as you so obviously nd systematically imply, NOR does it suggest that they are, even taking an extreme view of whateve nature, dubiously "successful" in some of there dealings ....hell.... there is even big discontent withing its own rankings - there is a reason for that

 

...... and that bit about nazi ....priceless .... right wing dos NOT translate nazi...it means right wing. if you want to talk nazi , at least have the intelligence to talk about golden dawn

 

i have said it before, and i will say it again .... you are a prime victim of Godwin's Law ....and AGAIN you reaffirm it

 

and you can deny as much as you want about ww2 but the fact remains ...there are a hell of a lot of people , and i mean a shit load, that are alive today and have lived those times, and having to deal with the consequences of those horrible times

 

denying caring about the attrocities of nazism is like denying the atrocities that where undertaken by the russians at the tail of the war ... or are you going to deny the reason why this sentiment of russia being the enemy has nothing to do with those horrible times .... because if you do ...you are a fool hiding behinds your little finger as a greek saying goes

 

EVERYTHING is interlinked.....ESPECIALLY as in involves a period of only 70 years ....when memories are still very fresh in many of peoples mind, and i mean MANY people, people that are still living ...and remembering .... and not forgetting.... and i cannot get it round my head that it is any different in many germans too. i reckon its very much alive

 

but then there are always those that ...well..... dont care

 

 

I don´t feel responsible for this times. I´m a young man. What do you want from me? That i fall on my knees and give greece tons of money? I can tell you what i can give, my friendship and support to help in hard times and the promise that i acknowledge that this what happened back then was a mistake. But nothing more. I did nothing and i don´t take responsibility for things that happened long before my birth.

 

And i think we help alot. My nation and greece disagree about this help but that doesn´t change the fact that we believe we are right. And greece can always opt out. If they don´t want our program, they can leave. 

 

Should we hold sweden accountable for the 30 year war waged on german lands? Or france for Napoleon? Should Iran send a bill for the destruction of persepolis to Macedonia?

 

Its history. And should stay history.

 

You know full well that germany and russia are not real "enemies" but rivals. We have no hard feelings. Buts its simply two great powers with different goals and interests. Germany did topple the russian puppet in ukraine and ukraine want join EU.

 

I honestly ask you, do you think its a smart idea to send anti german rant videos in the subways and to damage german-greek relations even further? How does this help greece? The entire reparation topic is laughable. Why do they only blackmail germany and not italy? Greece knows full well, that it will not get a single cent from germany. The case is closed. The damage done is way too big than germany could ever pay. Lets assume this case would be opened? Then the entire world as we know it would collapse. UK, France, USA, Japan, Russia, China and so on. All could be hold accountable for their past wars. Evry single economy in the world would collapse. You know that as well as i do.

 

There is only one point we could debate and thats the 11 billion loan that greece gave germany and that we did not pay back. But we did our homework at the Bundesbank. Our emperor Wilhelm I gave greece also a loan before WW I which was never paid back and would be worth 10.2 billion € today. 

[Guest eyoismos]

you just dont get it , do you
 
and prime example  .... "Our emperor Wilhelm I gave greece also a loan before WW I which was never paid back" ...to which i add ....and then germany proceeded to declare what was to become word war I
 
apart from history being history ONLY when those individuals affected DIRECTLY have long passed on ... something that is NOT the case with ww2
 

You know full well that germany and russia are not real "enemies" but rivals. We have no hard feelings

yeah right ...at the slightest provocation, the true feelings surface. maybe germans as a whole might not express it out in the open ...but then the Mediterraneans often do ..maybe it has something to do with the weather
 

Why do they only blackmail germany and not italy?

blackmail? seriously? for blackmail to happen, one must have a lot of guilt and fear of consequences for mentioning that word.
 
as for italy ... i leave you this

World War II Italy

According to the Paris Peace Treaties, 1947, Italy agreed to pay reparations of about US$125 million to Yugoslavia, US$105 million to Greece, US$100 million to the Soviet Union, US$25 million to Ethiopia, and US$5 million to Albania. Finland agreed to pay reparations of US$300 million to the Soviet Union; Finland also was the only country which fully paid its war reparations Hungary agreed to pay reparations of US$200 million to the Soviet Union, US$100 million to Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. Romania agreed to pay reparations of US$300 million to the Soviet Union. Bulgaria agreed to pay reparations of $50 million to Greece and $25 million to Yugoslavia. According to the articles of these treaties, the value of US$ was prescribed as 35 US dollars to one troy ounce of pure gold.

 

and if you think that greece has forgotten incidents like Domeniko , you are deeply mistaken . they choose to live with it, though not forgetting ... but then italy has never acted like a bitch on heat, since then ...and the fact that when Il Duce fll, italians celebrated .... that says a lot

 

the abovve should NOT be interpreted that as a principle i support the whole reparations thing, but the forced loans MUST be paid ... after all ... we are only following the oh hollier than though german principle of loans must be paid

 

but this is either here or there ..... what is in question is ....

 

when agreements are made, should they be enforced and implemented always? and i say this baring in mind ...what if those agreements are unjust or unfair or immoral or whatever, and even when such agreements might show moments of marginal desperation or incompetence or even ignorance of consequences, especially if one takes this "might is right" attitude you so often display

 

i am thinking of ,for example, dublin agreement

but i am ALSO thinking of Versailles ...and we all know what the consequences of that one as

[Guest PatrickT]

Greece is too small that it could do any big damage at all. As for the forced loan, as i said we gave a loan to greece before and they did not pay it back. You can consider the two obligations as zero now. This is a non issue and it does not help greece in any way. We will not pay a single cent.

 

What we can imagine as an act of good will is that we make a fond that pays a pension to individual greeks who were affected in WW II. We will not acknowledge anything with that. We deal direct with the affected people and the greek state sees not a single cent of it. And it would be a small amount of money nobody bothers about. Thats a solution our president brought up and commentators find it quite amusing, because it will be interesting how the regime in greece would react then. 

 

You mention the dublin agreement. We already made clear that we would ban greece out of Schengen if they issue papers for immigrants. That would mean greeks can´t travel EU without Visa anymore and the boarders of greece are closed. If thats what you want so be it. I don´t see the positive sideeffects for greece but each for their own. 

[Guest eyoismos]

Greece is too small that it could do any big damage at all. As for the forced loan, as i said we gave a loan to greece before and they did not pay it back. pathetic counter argument ... like i said before .... Wilhelm gave a loan ...and then declared war on europe, and in the process attacked greece via its stooges, then You can consider the two obligations as zero now. are you serious? or are you not being clear of what you mean about when, where etc. This is a non issue and it does not help greece in any way. We will not pay a single cent.

 

What we can imagine as an act of good will is that we make a fond that pays a pension to individual greeks who were affected in WW II. We will not acknowledge anything with that. what. you wont acknowledged? what exactly wont you acknowledge? and i mean you, patrick. because quite a few germans think otherwise, at least are starting to.so much for "we". We deal direct with the affected people yeah well 70 years down the line ...and all this time you where talking about lon gone history .... how ironic that you would bring that up and the greek state sees not a single cent of it. jesus i hope not. judging by the competence of decades of mismanagment so far, all  under the corrupt practices of german industry, that would be the last thing most would want, at lest most logical ones....until that is proven otherwise...and its waaaay to early to tell And it would be a small amount of money nobody bothers about. Thats a solution our president brought up and commentators find it quite amusing, because it will be interesting how the regime in greece would react then. 

 

You mention the dublin agreement. We already made clear that we would ban greece out of Schengen if they issue papers for immigrants. That would mean greeks can´t travel EU without Visa anymore and the boarders of greece are closed. If thats what you want so be it. I don´t see the positive side effects for greece but each for their own. 

 

typical short term thinking .... aka consequences of which by the way is herding all the illegals in places like greece, which effectively protects the "northerners" from them.... results, well, one of them at least.... idiots like kammenos who says stupid things due to unjust and unfair regulations and pretty much reacts without thinking... but then just as stupid would be certain parties that misinterpret what he effectively warned about, (as opposed to perceived threat) ...apart from if presumably complied with "dublin" regulations and issue papers as per regulations per agreement, and even under the guidance of frontex, for example, all legal and everything, europe would be inundated with immigrants ...and let germany and the rest throw their toys out the cot about Schengen and the rest ....when greece, in "worst case" (this word subject to interpretation) scenario did the above ... do you honestly think the illegals who are now legal would even want to stay in greece. i think not. but that is nithe here or there. the core of the crux id that dublin was immencley unfair and unjust, especially to all the bordering countries of europe. oh wait .... they could give loans to greece ...as they have.... to keep the effective invaders out ... fuck me.... they can make money out of this too. brilliant. absolutely brilliant ...only NOT so brilliant after all. there are always consequences to unfair, protective only to some, grossly  biased and damning long term consequences to such agreements

 

but what is more interesting is that you make no mention about the Versailles agreement. i guess that you probably feel that was fair and just. Somehow the vast majority of germany of that era would refuse to agree with you ... and out of reaction.... well Hitler comes to mind, feeding of that exact sentiment

 

point is agreements enforced by the "might is right brigades" onto the "minions who dont know better, or are powerless to object" are without doubt doomed to have serious consequences and are condemned to have matters come back and bite in them in the ass, one way or another. the allies of ww1 learned that the hard way, modren germany in their hegemonic role, irrelevant if they wanted "it" or not, need to realize this too. what do you think this eu crisis is all about. unless of course , as you implied in the past... it was all planned by germany to up her export drive (not my words, yours)... in which case i say to you, demonic and diabolic plan, if you ask me ...but somehow it makes sense...after all siemens and the like, and there are many of them, do what they do since inception... i mean even the americans have cottoned onto this with their own siemens scandal ...amongst others - not that they, in turn,  are innocent sheep (see greek junta for example) -

 

(i am being sarcastic here, - about making sense that is, and i only say this, because i somehow doubt you can grasp the bigger picture - you just like to only deal with numbers and graphs by the german money machine and so far seem incapable of understanding basic humanitarian concepts - like i said before ...."you are learning to be an enforcer for the godfather overseeing "la familia" ... so i am not surprised with you narrow tunnel visioned thinking ...and the repercussions thereof - its the same old lessons of history simply repeating itself and nobody wants or desires to learn from- which is why "empires" (or wannabees) come and go)

[Guest eyoismos]

and there is no point using that same old argument about greece being at fault. most greeks have being bitching about the sins of those they elected like forever. if germany wants to be hegemonic in its role in the eu, wanting it or not, then it bloody well start being hegemonic, and to do that it can start by recognizing  first its own sins and contributing to the mess that greece is in...and i repeat CONTRIBUTING. and in a big way too  .... that bullshit about simply giving money endlessly to an "expectant greece"  just does not wash, its pathetic, its moronic, and its stupid, and most of all its infuriating and insulting, but even worse, trying to come out smelling like roses and countering with "being insulted" but what might be said, is plain laughable and contemptible.

 

you get what you dish out. simple really - the terms of reference and perceptions might be different but the result is the same

[Guest PatrickT]

I did notbtalk about Versailles because i dont feel that happy about it and dont want to talk about this.

 

You say i have a tunnel vision but this is not true. I realize that most greeks live under bad conditions now and when i was in greece is realized that my problems are totally alien for most of my age there. When i talked with our assistant there, she was 5 years older than me and she saw that i checked my emails several times within a few minutes. She asked me if something is wrong and i told her that i booked several land tours on the seychelles, madagascar, mauritius and la reunion formthe cruise with my girl in december and that i did not get a booking agreement for our 2 day trip on the praslin island ... she just looked at me and told me she propably has to sell her car to keep her flat...I realized how priviliged we are and i can promise you that i wish that greece gets better. But i dont think throwing money in greece helps.

 

Greece needs hard reformation and i understand its painful, but there is no alternative.

[Guest eyoismos]

I did notbtalk about Versailles because i dont feel that happy about it and dont want to talk about this.

 

EXACTLY my point .NOW you are starting, and i mean starting, to understand, what i am talking about

 

You say i have a tunnel vision but this is not true. I realize that most greeks live under bad conditions now and when i was in greece is realized that my problems are totally alien for most of my age there. When i talked with our assistant there, she was 5 years older than me and she saw that i checked my emails several times within a few minutes. She asked me if something is wrong and i told her that i booked several land tours on the seychelles, madagascar, mauritius and la reunion formthe cruise with my girl in december and that i did not get a booking agreement for our 2 day trip on the praslin island ... she just looked at me and told me she propably has to sell her car to keep her flat...I realized how priviliged we are and i can promise you that i wish that greece gets better. But i dont think throwing money in greece helps.

 

you know... this is the first time you actually dropping that in-your-face, hard-ass uncompromising facade you have been demonstrating for far too long on this form ...and i think i am starting to believe you..... that you actually got a heart. albeit hiding behind god knows what to give the impression of god knows what as well - but its a start .... even if you simply looked , or so you imply, about comparing your holidays with your assistant having to keep her accommodation ...which by the way ...the eu negotiators seem almost rabid in the ways they try to effectively attempt for people to loose their roofs over their heads, so to speak

 

so yes ... i think you are starting to understand ...

 

and most in greece and the greek diaspora also think about throwing money at greece wont help. the problem is in  assuming greece and its people havent woken up to the fact that borrowing has consequences, the problem is that in germany and in general the rest in the eu, assume that the "money lenders" that control their lives in their own country are innocent of their own guilt in the mess in europe, the problem is they, the people of europe,  are also victims, the problem is that whichever way you look at it, the "money lenders" work on interests, interests that are based on time, and naturally what greece needs, assuming that their intentions are honorable, and we are giving them the benefit of doubt, even though we, collectively are overall pissed off with matters so far, is time. precious time to implement changes needed, changes that have formed over decades, and yet the powers that be, INCLUDING germany expect and demand that changes be implemented "overnight" so to speak.... and the key problem is time which is what the "money-lenders" like to play with, to force, i would even go as far as blackmail, greece to undergo radical changes ...yesterday .... all the while ignoring  their own dirty hands. while busy pointing fingers at others to cover their own mismanagement (and i say this in bery politically correct terms ...because in real life the exact description would make  would make caligula blush. TIME ..something that the eu negotiators (read money-lenders) dont want to give without interest. after all to them time is money, and fail to see beyond that

 

Greece needs hard reformation and i understand its painful, but there is no alternative.

no alternative? that's already highly debatable. this does NOT mean serious reformation is not needed, and this does not mean "painful" is not applicable...yes applicable to the rest of europe, and the general unrest in europe proves it, and certainly and without doubt painful to greece. but their is a limit to pain. and dramatic increase of hunger ,suffering, suicides and all the rest amongst the people of greece is NOT acceptable ...under ANY circumstances. THIS is what the hard-ass unwilling to back-off negotiators less they "Save face" just cant even fathom to understand. THIS is one of the reasons that the eu negotiators cant get it around their bird brain heads that THEY put suriza into power, that golden dawn support has rises dramatically ..etc etc, that THEY caused the mess in the first place

 

and all that is just scratching the surface

[Επισκέπτης]

eyo:

 

no alternative? that's already highly debatable. this does NOT mean serious reformation is not needed, and this does not mean "painful" is not applicable...yes applicable to the rest of europe, and the general unrest in europe proves it, and certainly and without doubt painful to greece. but their is a limit to pain. and dramatic increase of hunger ,suffering, suicides and all the rest amongst the people of greece is NOT acceptable ...under ANY circumstances. THIS is what the hard-ass unwilling to back-off negotiators less they "Save face" just cant even fathom to understand. THIS is one of the reasons that the eu negotiators cant get it around their bird brain heads that THEY put suriza into power, that golden dawn support has rises dramatically ..etc etc, that THEY caused the mess in the first place

It is bullshit like this that drives me mad. You want to know why I hate Greece? Because most assholes there think as you do.

You may not have noticed it but the rest of Europe has been reforming for 15 years now. Greece didn't do that.

 

And the ones responsible for the pain in Greece are not the Europeans but Greek governments who once again chose to throw the most vulnerable of our compatriotes under the train instead of implementing true reforms and eradicate the freebies to the tax dodgers and the privilleged.

 

Syriza states, again and again, that they wont lower wages and pensions of the public sector, to the contrary, they intend to increase them. At the same time 1.1 mil of the 1.4 mil unemployed in Greece receive exactly ZERO support. So where is the often quoted Greek "Filotimo" where is the solitarity within Greek society?

 

This is despicable. You expect the Europeans to show solitarity with the have nots in Greece while the Greek haves don't bother to look beyond their own plate.

 

Makes me wanna barf.

[Guest eyoismos]

It is bullshit like this that drives me mad. You want to know why I hate Greece? So .... you finally ,as i expected, you finally admitted you hate greece. this can of course mean that you hate all greeks, indiscriminately . but somehow i dont think so. i STILL maintain that you where royally shafted by the powers unknown, when trying to do business there, and now ...well .hate them because things didnt go your way, rightly or wrongly, and now you have decided to condemn everybody and spill vitriol indiscriminately and  continuously  Because most assholes there think as you do. like always you read what you want to read and interpret what you want to interpret, all biased and based on your self admitted hate - i m of course referring to the later part of the sentence ...as for the assholes , who do you think so many, and i mean MANY have  been bitching about ...FOR DECADES

You may not have noticed it but the rest of Europe has been reforming for 15 years now. Greece didn't do that.again, as said multiple times before... greece and greeks in general are at fault ... BUT SO IS THE REST OF EUROPE FOR NOT DOING ANYTHING ABOUT ...or do you seriously embrace the κουτοφραγγοι label that other arseholes embrace in greece. well let me tell you if you dont already know ...dumb they are not...even if "they" pleaded ignorance - they dman well knew what was going on ...unless to suggest that the "security divisions" of the european state are only worthy of all the banana  republics out there in the 3rd world ...so palease! spare us with the bullshit

 

And the ones responsible for the pain in Greece are not the Europeans but Greek governments who once again chose to throw the most vulnerable of our compatriotes under the train instead of implementing true reforms and eradicate the freebies to the tax dodgers and the privilleged. refer to the above

 

Syriza states, again and again, that they wont lower wages and pensions of the public sector, to the contrary, they intend to increase them. At the same time 1.1 mil of the 1.4 mil unemployed in Greece receive exactly ZERO support. So where is the often quoted Greek "Filotimo" where is the solitarity within Greek society? soo... you equate syriza with the whole of greece? seriously? remind me again the % of vote they got? remind me again what % of that voted that way out of reaction of the status quo? remind me again what % they had before they got so big in their britches? you make all sort of accusations and condemn then without a trial, so to speak. nope... i think that hate your talked about is clouding your mind and your judgement .so much so that you even might think that i am a syriza supporter, as you so often imply. THAT is how clouded your mind is

 

This is despicable. You expect the Europeans to show solitarity with the have nots in Greece while the Greek haves don't bother to look beyond their own plate. gross misinterpretation as you habitually have demonstrated repeatedly. so why even bother expanding on this...its all been said before

 

Makes me wanna barf.

 

change your diet, take some prescription drugs and see a shrink to take care of your misdirected hate and anger, nd yes your clouded thought process. its painfully obvious that you have issues

 

[Επισκέπτης]

bullshit.

 

It ain't Syriza alone. Greece is rotten through and through. Is there any party in Greece that cares for the disenfranchised?

The answer is NO and there is a reason for that. The disenfranchised can not afford to pay dues to the Syndikato or the Party.

So they have no voice in the system. Everybody gets worked up about a few public employees who were fired but nobody gives a shit about the countless people in private employ who are subject to a fire and hire policy without notice. Nobody speaks about the millions in private employment who are owed wages by their employers. That's Greece. You never hear about the people who trully suffer. Filotimo my ass.

 

And please go to the Poles, the Croats the Slovaks the Baltics and all the others who went, and are still going, through painfull reforms. Please go and explain to them why you think the EU has to be reformed before Greece can even think about reforming.

 

And what the hell?

Are you now blaming the EU for not having forced reforms upon Greece?

That's what the EU was trying to do for the last 5 years. And the Greeks have made it clear that they see this as a threat to their sovereignity.

 

Where the hell have you been all that time?

[Guest eyoismos]

bullshit.

 

It ain't Syriza alone. Greece is rotten through and through. seriously.... its like talking to a brick wall , a wall which only picks up what it wants. i mean how many times must i refer to the problems and mentalities and hangups of greece being decades old? and yet you keep on harping on and on and on about syriza ..... jesus... i wont even bother answering the rest because its so not worth it... in fact its pointless.... you argue for the sake of arguing... and the real joke ...you trashed admin about his evaluation of greeks being individuals etc etc etc ...and yet yes you demonstrate with ferocity the exact characteristics that you so , shall we call it "despise"  Is there any party in Greece that cares for the disenfranchised?

The answer is NO and there is a reason for that. The disenfranchised can not afford to pay dues to the Syndikato or the Party.

So they have no voice in the system. Everybody gets worked up about a few public employees who were fired but nobody gives a shit about the countless people in private employ who are subject to a fire and hire policy without notice. Nobody speaks about the millions in private employment who are owed wages by their employers. That's Greece. You never hear about the people who trully suffer. Filotimo my ass.

 

And please go to the Poles, the Croats the Slovaks the Baltics and all the others who went, and are still going, through painfull reforms. Please go and explain to them why you think the EU has to be reformed before Greece can even think about reforming.

 

And what the hell?

Are you now blaming the EU for not having forced reforms upon Greece?

That's what the EU was trying to do for the last 5 years. And the Greeks have made it clear that they see this as a threat to their sovereignity.

 

Where the hell have you been all that time?

[Guest PatrickT]

Look Eyos, the problem is in so many aspects. You name the greek problems yourself but you expect us to accept those problems, but we can´t.

 

Jens Weidmann is the president of our Bundesbank, so he is basicly my boss. And calls Greece a failed state. Greece lacks a functional government and administration. The current greek nation is not able to exist, no matter how many money you push into it. It is corrupted to the core and it is unable to reform itself. It lacks evrything, from a functional taxation system to a working administration. It would be senseless to waste money there, because it would be lost. Greece is sick. And we are the doctors. 

 

I´m fully aware that all those programs installed from the EU, IWF and ECB are painful for the average greek person and i wish there would be other options, but there are no other options. All those fancy ideas Varoufakis base only on one foundation: money from others. Germany has the point of view that you can only spend what you have. Thats the core of Austerity. Greece is not forced to follow our austerity program. If it gets the money from somewhere, it can try another program and maybe even prove us wrong. 

 

Another proint is what you brought up yourself. WW II and things like Versailles. Yes that hurts us germans too. I´m a young man but as most, such things touch me as well. I feel sad when i see what happened to germany and my people back then. My great grandparents told me stories and i know it haunts them even today. My people suffered as much as evry other people in europe back then. My born in Rostock and i was born after the german reunion. 40 years under communist rule damaged eastern germany very much. After reunion, germany had to work hard to achiee the position it has today. We hold more power today than ever before since the 1st german empire. And i see this as the natural order of things. 

 

We are not perfect either and you mentioned the corruption many german corporations use in foreign lands. I completly agree with this. I also see problems that you might not be aware of. For example that we have incredible rich and powerful families who control evrything from behind. We call them "old money". The Piechs and Porsches who own VW. The Quandts who own BMW and so on. 

 

Another problem is our lack of democracy. The system now is so weird. The chancellor is so extremly popular, that she doesn´t even need any party support. Chancellor Merkel is over the things. The daily politics do not have any effect on her popularity. She stands above evrything like an Empress. There are no discussions. The entire government have become simply actors and statists. 

 

Her system is called "Merkelism". The americans call her "teflon merkel", because no matter what you throw at her, nothing sticks. If you look at the recent spy scandal...the german secret service was spying on french firms and politicians...evry other chancellor would have been damaged. But Merkel stands above such things. She even gained more popularity and would win absolute power if we had elections now. Its like entire germany lost evry form of debate. 

 

The problem about this is, that Merkel is like a empress as i said. She is very similar to Cathrine the Great. She works hard for germany and nobody doubts her competence. But the entire stability of that bases on her person. There is nobody who could replace her. And thats a systematic problem. 

 

That said you can be sure that i´m aware of our own shortcomings. We are not perfect. But we manage to hide our weaknesses far better than greece. 

[Guest eyoismos]

good.... so you fully recognize your own slimy filthy faults, "your" being germany as opposed to you personally

 

thats is a start

 

you do however insist on calling them weaknesses...i choose you call them slimy and filthy and disgusting ...just as i call what the elite of greece did in the fast and do (maybe...because it might, i repeat might, be too soon to tell... as far is this syriza government might be concerned and what they assumingly ...by all sides... are trying to achieve)

 

"hiding" is NOT an issue, as you describe it....and especially the concept of one so called "hiding" something better than another. i prefer to call a spade a spade as the english expression goes and tell it like it is - for in the end the truth always comes out. the problem is the consequences of "weaknesses" (ha!) ...and THAT is the crux of the matter - it happened after ww1 to germany ...and is happening now in greece (obviously in a smaller level, but just as serious nonetheless)

[Guest PatrickT]

Syriza is corrupted to the core. They do nothing to hunt tax betrayal. They are no real government and no real debate partner for this matter. The problem is, our acting benefits germany as a whole. Greece lacks this coordinated behavior and damages itself. 

And you should start to realize reality. Greece can´t afford honor and self determination. At the moment its completly in our hands if you like it or not. Its the simple fact. 

[Guest eyoismos]

 

Syriza is corrupted to the core

pray tell on what grounds you base this serious accusation

incompetent due to inexperience (maybe) i can easily buy. corrupt? in 3 months only of power? seriously? are you smoking weed ?

 

oh wait ... maybe you are suggesting that siemens, the german arms industry and the rest of the corruption brigades from that part of the world have already had their first date, and are now planning for their first date-rape move

 

the things we learn from patrick is earth shattering truths

 

[Guest daman]

At the moment its completly in our hands if you like it or not. Its the simple fact. 

Germany does NOT own or control Europe. That is only where the bank for the Euro is. And the Euro is not all "german money"

 

they could move the bank to any country if they wanted to.

[Guest eyoismos]

theoretically yes, you are correct, but lets be realistic.

do you honestly think the ECB is going to abandone their beloved new €1.3 billion glass tower in Frankfurt in a hurry?

 i think not

[Guest PatrickT]

pray tell on what grounds you base this serious accusation

incompetent due to inexperience (maybe) i can easily buy. corrupt? in 3 months only of power? seriously? are you smoking weed ?

 

oh wait ... maybe you are suggesting that siemens, the german arms industry and the rest of the corruption brigades from that part of the world have already had their first date, and are now planning for their first date-rape move

 

the things we learn from patrick is earth shattering truths

 

Tsipras made family members politicians within the last months. Also he spares the super rich from taxation and best of all, switzeeeland delivered a list with over 12000 greek black money accounts which would accumulate 80 billion € win for greece if checked. So far greece checked 49 of it. Its incompetence is laughable at best.

[Guest PatrickT]

Germany does NOT own or control Europe. That is only where the bank for the Euro is. And the Euro is not all "german money"

 

they could move the bank to any country if they wanted to.

lol you should take a step into reality. Name me a single european country that has as much power as germany? France is weak and follows evrything germany demands, All others are not relevant, simply because their lack of power. The EU we have today is a german protectorate. Its that easy.

[Guest daman]

lol you should take a step into reality. Name me a single european country that has as much power as germany? France is weak and follows evrything germany demands, All others are not relevant, simply because their lack of power. The EU we have today is a german protectorate. Its that easy.

sometimes after I read your postings I get the feeling like the EU just put the bank in germany to humor you people. Just to stroke your egos so you would shut up