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Guest PatrickT

US try to damage german business for own benefits says US economist Hickel

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Guest PatrickT

Hickel says that teh USA try to sabotage german economy to boost its own rotten industry.

He brings up the pushed up VW emission "scandal". The US agencies react in a way they would not do when an american corporation would be involved.

VW made a mistake indeed but nobody was hurt. Yet US agencies demand 5000 $ compensation for each custumer and most likly will push a double digit billion fine on VW. Which will be a enormous damage for germany.

Meanwhile american corporations like GM willingly hurt and killed hundreds of customers with faulty key locks and go away with a lousy 900 million $ fine.

The double standards in this is absolute obvious.

Meanwhile US corporations depend solely on spying german corporations to stay in the market.

Just a few weeks ago a german court finally busted Ford for using a 100% copy of a german engine.

Another aspect is the rotten TTIP free trade agreement which would only profit the USA and damage german interests. American products and standards are far inferior to german standards,. Our markets would be flooded with american garbage like GMO and chlorine chicken. German specialities could be copied from far inferior american corporations and there would be secret hold informal courts who could sue our government for protecting german customers from american fraud. 

Millions of germans demonstrate against any form of agreement with USA.

 

There is a great chance TTIP falls because the german people finally stand up against american imperialism. 

But busting this pathetic treaty is one thing, striking back another.

I believe we must attack american business as they attack ours. That google recently has become the target here is a good thing. The EU started a process that could lead to google being crushed here. USA must not just be kicked out of germany but europe as whole. There can´t be freedom heer when this tyrannical regime has so much influence here. 

We need to kick USA out, we need to leave NATO. We need to be free. Evryone deserves freedom.

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Guest HappyAsHellas

TTIP needs to be killed off as soon as possible, but it is already undermining democracy in the US where the people seem powerless or unwilling to oppose it. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the German government could be taken to court because of it's refusal to build new nuclear power stations. For the sake of democracy and freedom - do something NOW.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

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Guest eyoismos

 

the German government could be taken to court because of it's refusal to build new nuclear power stations

 

ναι ... απο την σουηδία απολύτως καμία σχέση με το TTIP. Και η ερώτηση μου είναι ... και ποιός σταματά την γερμανία να κάνει μήνυση κατά της σουηδικής εταιρίας, και ακόμα και να παρσύρει την ίδια την σουηδία στα δικαστήρια

 

μιλάμε για δικηγόρους και νόμους και δικαιοσύνη .... ξέρεις ... όλα εκείνες οι "έννοιες"  και ιδεώδη που επιτρέπουν πολίτες και ειδικά εταιρίες να στέλνουνε ....δεν ξέρω ... παναμά ....;

 

αυτό τους εφαγε .... το TTIP :D

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Guest PatrickT

TTIP needs to be killed off as soon as possible, but it is already undermining democracy in the US where the people seem powerless or unwilling to oppose it. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the German government could be taken to court because of it's refusal to build new nuclear power stations. For the sake of democracy and freedom - do something NOW.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

 

Yes and it would be a secret court not bound by anything.

 

We dont just need to kill TTIP. We need to push USA away of europe. 

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Guest eyoismos

τώρα την είπες την μαλακία σου πάλι

 

μάλλον σε τρώει ο κόλος σου επειδή η αμερική γάμησε την γερμανία σε δύο παγκόσμιους

άσε την φαγομάρα σου που το σκαριδάκι ανακαλύφτηκε ψευτης και απατεώνας και τώρα πρέπει να πληρώσει τα έντερα του

αναμενόμενο να θέλεις τα αμερικάνάκια έξω απο την ευρώπη ...για να μπορέσει η γερμανία να την κατασπαράξει μόνη της .... πάλι

αναμενόμενο επισης οτι θέλουν τα ευρωπαίκά κράτη φορο-παραδείσους μονο για τον εαυτόν τους και κάτω απο το δάκτυλο τους

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Guest HappyAsHellas

Everyone is running around clamouring about some fabled agreement which will make our lives better, we are told. The simple fact is that the EU has no trade agreement with the US, and neither does the UK. We've survived so far without the need, but the US is determined to capture the whole of Europe with it's poisonous TTIP agreement. It has to be stopped.

 

δικό μας προβλημα;

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Guest eyoismos

please understand HaH .... the problem is NOT the TTIP ... the problem is the dickwad politicians in the EU who dont insist on the US getting some standards for a change, in certain areas, while at the same hand, get their finger out of their ass and succumb to the notion that in some other areas the bureaucracy stifles the economy of europe

 

and  now the sarcastic bit ... more and more it seems that the US is fast becoming cool tax evasion country for those who dont want to "share" their suspect gains ..... guess places like Luxembourg has outgrown its capacity

 

The World’s Favorite New Tax Haven Is the United States

 

bottom line .... spare me the sentiment about TTIP - the real game is way ahead above the pay-grade of mere mortals like you and me

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Guest HappyAsHellas

One of the few great things about Britain is it's health service - free at point of entry to everyone. American companies have been watching for years and if TTIP goes ahead it will see the dismantling of this institution and many others. If Americans are happy that 70% of the food they buy in supermarkets is genetically modified with the seller not having to inform the public then that's their lookout. I don't want their corrupt stinking system here where they can then screw all the mere mortals and shuffle back to their cool tax haven. When these decisions will fall into the hands of people like Juncker or Draghi I despair. Sadly democracy is dying, and the alternative seems to be a kleptocracy. (great Greek word)

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Guest eyoismos

i fail to see how ttip could dip its fingers into free medical care

 

at best, from what i read ....

 

 

n the United States, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has been slower in approving some new cancer drugs and medical devices than the European Medicines Agency (EMA). TTIP advocates contend that increasing coordination may bring benefits to pharmaceutical companies by reducing compliance costs

*

*

we are looking at mutual recognision of end-products, so that a product approved in the US can be sold in Europe and vice versa

 

http://www.euractiv.com/section/trade-society/news/ttip-s-healthcare-chapter-to-focus-on-medicines-approval/

 

and that by example

 

having said that .... the FDA is slacker in approving drugs and supposedly on getting their shit together, while on the other hand

for example again, the states supposedly have way higher so called "standards"  when it comes to emissions, in comparison with europe - which explains why certain germans are pissed off  all of course rabble roused by a certain corporate, we wont mention who...but conveniently forget they got busted for cheating

 

point is , in theory , the idea of the TTIP is supposed to get everybody (concerned) on board with similar standards. the weak link? the greed of politicians, what else? and this applies on both sides of the atlantic.

 

now this whole hot potato about gm food  ... where is your problem? MY problem is the whole idea of copyrights to food products at the source, ie, the seeds. sure... i understand the select few who created the said seeds spent fortunes developing it... but what gets me is that they (some gm manufacturing seed developers ) have had the audacity to sue some farmers who had their crops "polluted" , if that is the right word with whatever from gm producing farms "next door" ...and winning their cases .....and yet the very same farmers, being small usually, are not empowered to counter-sue the big boys aka the seed producers for not containing their "offspring" within their environments - remember.... we are talking the producers of the seed.... NOT the farmers that are using gm seeds

 

another thing ... again for example.... we have cases where beer producers , by mistake or otherwise, used gm barley or hops or whatever the beer makers use to make grog, and the result was pretty shit beer, which may or may not be a result of the ingredients involved - this according to some sources in europe

 

gm is NOT the problem, per say ...though many get all riled up ... but conveniently forget the benefits as a whole

 

we could go on forever, but the point is ...its up to the politicians to get heir shit together and do what they where elected to do, protect the interests of the people aka consumers..... NOT the interests of the corporates .... on both sides of the pond

 

in fact what pisses me more is when certain people come up with crap like politicians make decisions for what they where not elected for, for example TTIP.  and yet that is EXACTLY how they are elected for ... or do we need to have every little decision to be debated and have public referendums on..... to which i add ... what is the point of parliament even we have to resort to that ? leaving decisions to those , the public, to become lawyers and technical experts and all the rest..... the vast majority of which is completely clueless and for all intents and purposes sheep following the whims of tom dick and harry who make the right noises in some park standing on boxes and shouting the odds?

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Guest

eyo,

 

you think that the privatization of essential services and resources such as water, power grids and health services is not a big issue?

I think most Europeans would have an issue with an "Americanized" health care system. And imagine you have the power grid or the water supply in Greece in the hands of American corporations and ultimately the Bankers who own them. You think they give a flip on wether some unemployed people in Greece can afford their light bill or not?

 

They are after profits and, with TTIP in place, if their profit expectations are not met due to legislative measures, they go and sue Governments for compensation. This does indeed undermine sovereignity of the electorate. The generous handling of delinquent electricity accounts the public electricity company in Greece has in place right now would be unimaginable under TTIP.

 

And then there is the labeling requirement for GM foods. If you remove that you deny people the choice between GM and non GM foods. But the impact GM crops have on farming is a far more serious concern. New GM cereal seeds for example have a build in "Copyright". Meaning that the harvested crop does not germinate and can therefore not be used as seed. With big agrobusiness pushing GM varieties and spending a lot of effort to eradicate traditional crops we'll soon get to a situation where the food production of the entire planet is controlled by a few corporations. This is something to be worried about.

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Guest eyoismos

eyo,

 

you think that the privatization of essential services and resources such as water, power grids and health services is not a big issue?

did i say anywhere that it is not?

I think most Europeans would have an issue with an "Americanized" health care system. so would i . health is a fundimental right but for the life of me, i just cant see where abolishment of free medical comes in. And imagine you have the power grid or the water supply in Greece in the hands of American corporations and ultimately the Bankers who own them. You think they give a flip on wether some unemployed people in Greece can afford their light bill or not? as opposed to now? what difference would there be between a corporate owning water as opposed to a useless or corrupt government. and last i heard, water and lights one still has to pay for

 

They are after profits and, with TTIP in place, if their profit expectations are not met due to legislative measures, they go and sue Governments for compensation. This does indeed undermine sovereignity of the electorate. The generous handling of delinquent electricity accounts the public electricity company in Greece has in place right now would be unimaginable under TTIP.. stupid question... and what stops "government" sue the fucking pants of the corporates...for just aout anything under the sun....  and remember ...governments decide what is law, not corporate lawyers. apart from the idea that ..well... has any US corporates sued the US government for "losses"? ditto for within europe? (and i mean within the context of what TTIP is allegedly suppose to bring . aka its already happening so wtf is the difference?)

 

And then there is the labeling requirement for GM foods.never said anything against  removal of requirement ... i agree it should be there ... but the fact remains ... you look at animal pet food ....everything is listed ... human food ? not so much. whoi's fault is that? the legislators. now take it to the labeling thing and ..... If you remove that you deny people the choice between GM and non GM foods. But the impact GM crops have on farming is a far more serious concern. i have already elaborated on that so no further input is really necessary New GM cereal seeds for example have a build in "Copyright". Meaning that the harvested crop does not germinate and can therefore not be used as seed. With big agrobusiness pushing GM varieties and spending a lot of effort to eradicate traditional crops we'll soon get to a situation where the food production of the entire planet is controlled by a few corporations. This is something to be worried about. again ...see above. i agree with you

 

 

bottom line the idea behind TTIP is not the problem, in theory it should be beneficial to both sides.... and again i emphasize ... the politicians are the danger zone ... on both side of the Atlantic

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Guest eyoismos

here is wild idea that just popped into my head

 

if a corporate can sue a government for essentially unfulfilled promises and or losses ....

can we, the legal entity called "the electorate" sue the politicians for exactly the same thing, and then go all out for the head hunchos of the corporates for corruptive practices and influences, and yes,  tax avoidance ...after all .... those are serious losses too, at least for the electorate

 

after all ... corporates have managed to get the same rights and privileges of indivuduals (and by the look of thing even more) ....so ..... any lawyers with balls and brains and at least half a heart to go pro bono on this scenario ? .... cause i got a shit load of people i know who would die to get high end lawyer fire power on their side for a change

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Guest eyoismos

what the REAL joke though is that μουνοπανο shuold dare to bring up this particular element of corportates suing countries, considering .....
 

Since the 1980s, German investors have sued dozens of countries, including Ghana, Ukraine and the Philippines, at the World Bank’s Centre in Washington DC. But with the Vattenfall case, Germany found itself in the dock for the first time. The irony was not lost on those who considered Germany to be the grandfather of investor-state arbitration: it was a group of German businessmen, in the late 1950s, who first conceived of a way to protect their overseas investments as a wave of developing countries gained independence from European colonial powers. Led by Deutsche Bank chairman Hermann Abs, they called their proposal an “international magna carta” for private investors.

 

The obscure legal system that lets corporations sue countries

 

guess it is not so sweet when on the other foot

 

 

and then, from the same article ...

 

 

“It was a total surprise for us,” the local Green party leader Jens Kerstan laughed, in a meeting at his sunny office in Hamburg last year. “As far as I knew, there were some [treaties] to protect German companies in the [developing] world or in dictatorships, but that a European company can sue Germany, that was totally a surprise to me.”

Vattenfall v Germany ended in a settlement in 2011, after the company won its case in the local court and received a new water permit for its Moorburg plant – which significantly lowered the environmental standards that had originally been imposed, according to legal experts, allowing the plant to use more water from the river and weakening measures to protect fish. The European Commission has now stepped in, taking Germany to the EU Court of Justice, saying its authorisation of the Moorburg coal plant violated EU environmental law by not doing more to reduce the risk to protected fish species, including salmon, which pass near the plant while migrating from the North Sea.

 

 

and i ask ... how does TTIP come into play now as the big bad culrpit of so called potential?

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Guest HappyAsHellas

The greatest weapon TTIP will have is the ability to sue for prejudicial actions against a said business. German government decides it will not build new nuclear power stations as sanctioned by their people. The nuclear lobby sue them as this is prejudicial against their business. Test cases have been carried out in the US already, and democracy is no obstacle to this practice. If there is nothing to fear as you suggest, perhaps you can tell me where to find the minutes or notes taken at any of their secret meetings. No one knows what they are thinking, saying or doing. If it's all above board and for the greater good of everyone, why won't they tell us what is happening? I smell a very large mouse here, and my inherent distrust of lawyers, politicians and big business all coming together for the common good is quite frankly laughable.

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Guest eyoismos

The greatest weapon TTIP will have is the ability to sue for prejudicial actions against a said business. German government decides it will not build new nuclear power stations as sanctioned by their people. The nuclear lobby sue them as this is prejudicial against their business. Test cases have been carried out in the US already, and democracy is no obstacle to this practice. If there is nothing to fear as you suggest, (where on earth did i suggest that)  perhaps you can tell me where to find the minutes or notes taken at any of their secret meetings. No one knows what they are thinking, saying or doing. If it's all above board and for the greater good of everyone, why won't they tell us what is happening? I smell a very large mouse here, and my inherent distrust of lawyers, politicians and big business (you are preaching to the choir . i agree totally) all coming together for the common good is quite frankly laughable. of course its laughable, which in turn makes TTIP the villain is equally laughable

 

what i am suggesting to to hell with the symptom, go for the cause and for starters ... well... allegedly legal tax havens (my royal behind) for the corporates and individuals come immediately to mind

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Guest HappyAsHellas

The EU was thinking about coming down hard on tax havens, offshore funds etc, but David Cameron voted against it. Wonder why?

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