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Guest PatrickT

anti german hate in greece hits unknown levels

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Guest PatrickT

The problem we have is, that germany has a significant say in the fates of millions of people from other countries. Such power creates a significant amount of responsibility, but our government and other policymakers nevertheless sometimes behave as though they were leading a small country. The economist magazine called germany a "reluctant hegemon". Germany is dominating europe, but it doesn't lead. Thats the problem.

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Guest eyoismos

Tsipras made family members politicians within the last months.

 

thats really rich, considering the source of the accusations -> Examining nepotism in Germany

 

and ultimately makes you. if not  look like a fool, certainly a definate example of The Emperor's New Clothes

 

but lets not stop there ... nepotism does not translate automatically to corruption ...example ...

The Elia party MEP Eva Kaili appointed her sister Madalena to coordinate her office workflow as she has done so far during her 10-year political career. “Madalena has her wonderful opportunities outside politics. But once you get involved in politics, your sister is the first trustworthy person that comes to mind.

 

 

Also he spares the super rich from taxation and best of all, switzeeeland delivered a list with over 12000 greek black money accounts which would accumulate 80 billion € win for greece if checked. So far greece checked 49 of it. Its incompetence is laughable at best.

 

oh ? you mean there where NO black money accounts from germany? wow! oh wait maybe you are right.... the germany dirty money probably ended up in Luxemburg AS WELL .... and certainly officially germany did so little about it, relatively speaking

 

but i forget .... germany is soooo much better at ...what was it you said ?..... "hiding" their own sins better than the rest of the idiot europeans .... and whats really laughable .... that patrick is actually proud of it

 

give us a break

 

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Guest eyoismos

, but it doesn't lead. Thats the problem.

DAMN STRAIGHT !!!! exactly the problem. and one leads by example

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Guest PatrickT

 

Tsipras made family members politicians within the last months.

 

thats really rich, considering the source of the accusations -> Examining nepotism in Germany

 

and ultimately makes you. if not  look like a fool, certainly a definate example of

 

but lets not stop there ... nepotism does not translate automatically to corruption ...example ...

<a data-ipb="nomediaparse" data-cke-saved-href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor"href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor" s_new_clothes"="">

 

 

The difference between our black money and greek black money is, that our nation earns more money than it spends, has a positive budget and makes no debt. Our tax fraud is an annoyance, but for greece its killing it. 

 

I think you don´t realize that your nation is on the brink of collapse. The only thing that holds greece alive right now is Chancellor Merkel. And she does so against the will of the german people and her own party. More and more politicians in germany say the EU would be better off without greece and call to let it fail. 

 

The largest part of germans demands that greece is left to die. I guess you are unaware of the consequences? Wages would not be paid anymore and public service would collapse. Electricity and water suplly end. Police and army would not be paid anymore. You would get anarchy and a total collapse of the entire state. As your own minister Varoufakis said: greece would be bombed back into the stone age

 

So far Merkel resisited the pressure and always said greece must be supported. 

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-10/merkel-pressed-to-give-up-on-greece-as-germans-urge-strong-euro

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Guest PatrickT

DAMN STRAIGHT !!!! exactly the problem. and one leads by example

 

 

lol. Greece won´t change from example but only by force from outside. You can be as corrupted as you want to be. But be sucessful. Corruption is a luxury you must be able to afford. 

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Guest eyoismos

The difference between our black money and greek black money is, that our nation earns more money than it spends, has a positive budget and makes no debt. Our tax fraud is an annoyance, but for greece its killing it. 

 

difference? seriously? black money is black money, no matter how much you might want to sugar coat it, Period ...and a couple of explanation marks after that

 

I think you don´t realize that your nation is on the brink of collapse.

how stupid do you think people are. of course we know, We know that for years, In fact we know trhat from the moment we hit the  debt level 100% mark of GDP. why do you think so many of us are perpetually bitching about greece?

The only thing that holds greece alive right now is Chancellor Merkel. And she does so against the will of the german people and her own party. More and more politicians in germany say the EU would be better off without greece and call to let it fail. 

all that is debatable .... not only about what holds greec alive, but just as debatable about the will of the german people and all the rest ... becasue as far as i am aware, the whole thing is an EU problem. i am not for one minute doubting it , but by the same token i am not endorcing that opinion either. everything is way more complicated that the simpleton view you seem to embrace

 

The largest part of germans demands that greece is left to die. I guess you are unaware of the consequences? Wages would not be paid anymore and public service would collapse. Electricity and water suplly end. Police and army would not be paid anymore. You would get anarchy and a total collapse of the entire state. As your own minister Varoufakis said: greece would be bombed back into the stone age

again ... how stupid do you think we are we are very much aware of the consequences. we had to deal with the consequences the past - and here is a little titbit of information that you might not be aware .... greece defaulted 4 times since liberation from the turks .... 1827, 1843, 1897 and 1932 - so yeah ...we are fully aware of the consequences .... we have lived it in our short history as a modern nation multiple times...and certainly lived and endured all the crap that these defaults entailed ...but the fact that you quoted V back at us makes me think...why? are you perhaps admiting privately, god forbid anybody hear you,  that V actually talks sense, sometimes,  after all ... not only about greece, but about europe too?

 

So far Merkel resisited the pressure and always said greece must be supported. 

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-10/merkel-pressed-to-give-up-on-greece-as-germans-urge-strong-euro

 

well aware of that buddy. she IS trying to keep the EU together, so much so that even she got a bit upset with your own minister of finance, according to your link, and his shall we call it outbust. and you know why? because ultimately she fully recognises possible long term consequences of a country, any country,  thrown out of the EU. she is not stupid, far from it... i have said it before, and i repeat  ...she is a sly (not in the negative sense) fox when it comes to politics, dont nevessary like her (mixed fealing to tell the truth) but i respect her, as most greeks would and do .... when the take their charges emotions, that she, herself,  has created in the past, and put them on the back burner, and allow logic to take the front stage

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Guest PatrickT

Tell me please, how do i, how does my country profit from holding greece artificially alive?

 

The problem i see is as what many say, germany is a reluctant hegemon. Merkel did create an empire by accident. We hold the power, but are reluctant to use it. Nothing in the EU happens against germany. At EU summits all look first at merkel, when another EU leader spoke, to see her reaction. The power comes from absolute economic dominance, but most germans think and act like our nation is a gigantic switzerland. Thats the problem and also explains Merkels nickname "madame non". Polands former foreign minister Sikorski said he doesn't fear german dominance, what he fears is german indifference.

 

If germany would lead it would take thousands of greek university students, teach them tax laws and build up a functional state in greece. We would invest there, make a plan and force greece to follow it. But we do nothing like that. We just occasionally walk by the burning house and throw a bucket with water on it and complain that we waste water.

 

There would be so much to do but our political debate is stuck in dull discussions about a veggie day.

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Guest daman

PatrickT: I have a question for you... and before you answer it I want you to take a good few moments to think of your answer please....  And you dont even really have to answer me... but from 1 human to another, and from someone who in the recent past HAS been like you in the fact I was the 1 person who was not like the others in the forum....

Are you happy here on this forum???

Because it seems you spend a lot of time "debating/arguing" here. I can tell you from experience it does not matter what you say on any ethnocentric forum because that group will always believe their group is the best. Sometimes tho some forums that are ethnocentric might be more friendly than others and slightly more open to listening to opposing view points about whatever. But at some point after a long hard fight on these types of online communites (even if you join a group and did not know it was ethnocentric and later discovered you didnt like it there) its OK to just move on. You are not a failure in the sense that people DID hear your views. And they may or may not have curved some peoples opinions. But noone would think any less of you if you decided to just stop posting here and join a german based online community.

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Guest PatrickT

I post here like one post all two days and type it down mostly on boring train tours from Frankfurt back home after work. I use it to train my english and to be able to debate in another language. That said it doesn´t really matter what opinion you or other greeks have. In other words, like on the big scale. 

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Guest eyoismos

 how does my country profit from holding greece artificially alive?

 

 

indeed! that is the multi-billion dollar question ! and it doesnt neccessarily translate to "dollars" either

 

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Guest PatrickT

indeed! that is the multi-billion dollar question ! and it doesnt neccessarily translate to "dollars" either

 

 

 

Well we have an option called the "Hartz IV" for greece option. Hartz IV is the label for the german welfare system for unemployed people. That means we would let greece collapse and the elites and government crash. Greece would then fall under EU governance. We would hold the public service like hospitals, police and so on alive. Thats an option i personally see as positive and best for almost all people in greece. 

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Guest eyoismos

dude ... you really should look more deeply than that. way more deeply .....superficial options are not the key

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Guest PatrickT

dude ... you really should look more deeply than that. way more deeply .....superficial options are not the key

option two would be to let it fail and fall into chaos and civil war. During my visit another german group was visiting athens. Lawmakers from Bundestag, And they were shocked about the incompetence showed there. Thats the main reason why our governments temds to simply let greece fail now.

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Guest daman

Well we have an option called the "Hartz IV" for greece option. Hartz IV is the label for the german welfare system for unemployed people. That means we would let greece collapse and the elites and government crash. Greece would then fall under EU governance. We would hold the public service like hospitals, police and so on alive. Thats an option i personally see as positive and best for almost all people in greece. 

in theory maybe however if a lot of people are dodging taxes then they probably do not want to register with welfare because then the government would know more info on how to track them down. Or whoever the "government" would end up being that is..

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Guest PatrickT

in theory maybe however if a lot of people are dodging taxes then they probably do not want to register with welfare because then the government would know more info on how to track them down. Or whoever the "government" would end up being that is..

 

 

When greece collapse we would not give welfare to the people. We would simply hold hospitals, schools, police alive. What the greeks do and how they manage their life is not our concern. Its only important to hold the basic systems alive. 

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Guest eyoismos

When greece collapse we would not give welfare to the people. We would simply hold hospitals, schools, police alive. What the greeks do and how they manage their life is not our concern. . 

 

sentiments that sounds awfully like 1940+ ... cold, calculating, heartless, void of any signs of a human soul , indifferent to the cost to and in human lives, ... bordering on the boundaries of cruelty, even  ... you know ... the normal characteristics of any modern money lender, .... amongst others

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sentiments that sounds awfully like 1940+ ... cold, calculating, heartless, void of any signs of a human soul , indifferent to the cost to and in human lives, ... bordering on the boundaries of cruelty, even  ... you know ... the normal characteristics of any modern money lender, .... amongst others

why should the Europeans and the IMF pay so that Greeks can continue to spend more than they earn?

Please explain that to me. This is getting asinine.

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Guest PatrickT

sentiments that sounds awfully like 1940+ ... cold, calculating, heartless, void of any signs of a human soul , indifferent to the cost to and in human lives, ... bordering on the boundaries of cruelty, even  ... you know ... the normal characteristics of any modern money lender, .... amongst others

 

The greeks brought this over themself. Beside that i don´t get your point. We would hold hospitals and the basic service alive. What else do you suggest? Greece already is our protectorate and the difference to 1940th is, that we got this protectorate against our own will. 

 

You don´t like our program and call it heartless? Well since the russian and chinese option puffed away there would be only one alternative:

 

"Erdogan advisor Yigit Bulut thinks that #Greece which the Ottomans took care of for 500 years does not meet the requirements to be a country"

 

Bulut suggests, that greece should become a part of turkey.

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Guest eyoismos

The greeks brought this over themself. yes true, but to a point ...for you sooo conveniently forget to mention tht one little details that you cant seem to grasp ie ... with the help of irrespocible lending, not to mention so much corruption by the like of soem companies from german, and yes, even blackmail practices from the same ources...but then it would not be to "your"best interests to accept that, would it?  Beside that i don´t get your point. We would hold hospitals and the basic service alive. nothing wrong with that, under normal circumstances, but AGAIN you forgot to mention another little detail you completely forgot to repeat ...what you said .... " What the greeks do and how they manage their life is not our concern"... pretty much exactly what happened in 1940+ What else do you suggest? Greece already is our protectorate and the difference to 1940th is, that we got this protectorate against our own will. circumstances might differ but reality begs to differ

 

You don´t like our program and call it heartless? Well since the russian and chinese option puffed away there would be only one alternative:

 

"Erdogan advisor Yigit Bulut thinks that #Greece which the Ottomans took care of for 500 years does not meet the requirements to be a country"

 

Bulut suggests, that greece should become a part of turkey.

 

 

seriously? you quote that total tool of a dickhead? that moron that claimed that foreign forces were trying to murder Erdoğan using telekinesis? from a country that refuses to accept the holocaust of the armenians, pontians, and god knows how many more?

seems to me you really have a great affection for peyote mushrooms

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Guest PatrickT

Erdogan is as crazy as his advisors. What i try to make you realize is, that germany protects greece against such idiots.

 

That said i must say your words make no sense.

 

You once became batshit crazy as i showed you that we would like to get some islands from greece in exchange for money. Now you want that we overtake entire greece. That we rule it and make it our colony.

 

And please spare me the bullshit that we are responsible for greece taking too much loans and biying shit they can´t afford. Greece was a souvereign nation. Are you telling me we deal with retards there who can´t make deceissions for themself? Is that what you try to tell me? That we have to check any deal with greece because possible dementia? What you say here supports that bulshit from this Bülent guy. That greece is no real country then. The people i´ve met there did not seem mentally challenged as you suggest. 

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eyo:

 

you quote that total tool of a dickhead? that moron that claimed that foreign forces were trying to murder Erdoğan using telekinesis? from a country that refuses to accept the holocaust of the armenians, pontians, and god knows how many more?

seems to me you really have a great affection for peyote mushrooms

well eyo,

you may not like it but sticking your head in the sand doesn't change the facts. The Turks will own Thrace and the Eastern Aegean isles in the foseable future and kudos to them. Despite Erdogan's many idiotic statements the Turkish government apparatus has a viable strategic plan and has been working slowly and steadily on the implementation of that plan.

 

At the end of the day, the question of ownership in Thrace and the Aegean is not decided by claims of "Greek DNA" or by some pseudo-impartial international legal bodies. It is a matter of demograpic dynamics, millitary and industrial capacity, political and economic gravity and of course strategic vision. Turkey has all of those things and we don't.

 

But that's not so important. The wages and pensions for the public sector are Greece's holiest of holies. And thats the only battle Greece's leaders are willing to fight.

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patrick:

 

Are you telling me we deal with retards there who can´t make deceissions for themself?

We are dealing with a hopelessly insane mob being led by a caste of utterly corrupt profiteers.

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Guest eyoismos

Erdogan is as crazy as his advisors. What i try to make you realize is, that germany protects greece against such idiots

oh please !!!! germany ONLY protects its own interests...which maybe understandable ... but protecting greece? seriously? thats all a political facade to say the very least. you very well know that Germany as a whole is not exactly friendly towards turkey per say, but trade is trade, and 80 million potential clients is not something to scoff at. so spare us with your bull

 

That said i must say your words make no sense.

 

You once became batshit crazy as i showed you that we would like to get some islands from greece in exchange for money. Now you want that we overtake entire greece. That we rule it and make it our colony.

OMG ! you interpreted "nothing wrong with that, under normal circumstances" as indicative of me supporting you guys taking over greece, or any part of greece at all? WTF ! you really are under the influence. i was merely pointing out the sentiment demonstrated by you being a facsimile of 1940+ attitudes under disguise. i was also showing that i could understand why the EU , via germany, would take such measures. but that does NOT translate any support for such actions if it also included subjection of a nation, any nation, to external forces. get with the program, once and for all ... oh wait you are .... the seemingly german program of neo-colonial conquest. my bad

 

And please spare me the bullshit that we are responsible for greece taking too much loans and biying shit they can´t afford. Greece was a souvereign nation. Are you telling me we deal with retards there who can´t make deceissions for themself? Is that what you try to tell me? That we have to check any deal with greece because possible dementia? What you say here supports that bulshit from this Bülent guy. That greece is no real country then. The people i´ve met there did not seem mentally challenged as you suggest.

 

oh? you mean examples like ...

 

the metro system in Greece is being delayed because Siemens is refusing to supply parts.  The reason that they are refusing to supply the parts necessary for the completion of some metro stations is that the Greek government has begun investigations against the company following the trial that was conducted in Germany regarding kickbacks and corruption by company management.  Siemens is being investigated by the government of the USA for similar ethics problems, and has been tried and convicted by other countries.

and

 

Greece had spent its livelihood away, collapsed its economy, created 25% unemployment, is selling its islands... all of this because it was blackmailed by France and Germany's military industrial complex to purchase weapons from them. In return Greece was promised support from them in international affairs. True friends

 

and these are but two examples, of many

 

stupid me for even daring to suggesting the word blackmail

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Guest eyoismos

We are dealing with a hopelessly insane mob being led by a caste of utterly corrupt profiteers.

in general historical terms i would agree with you

 

currently we are ONLY giving the current government enough rope to hang themselves, (and maybe the greek populace in the process ...which would be no different from the previous governments, not really different, anyway) but a handful of months is not enough to tar and feather them ...at least not yet.... close, maybe ... but not quite yet

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Guest PatrickT

eyo,,you seem to forget that it will be young men like me who, will be send to greece to do the main job to build up a functional system, once greece went down the drain. A duty i'm not that happy for. So if you believe that im excited to go there, in our protectorate, i must disappoint you.

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Guest eyoismos

eyo,,you seem to forget that it will be young men like me  and of course but simple pawns on a need to know basis who, will be send to greece to do the main job to help build up a functional system and help is the key word, otherwise just another occupier like so many in history, and like all occupiers,destiny awaits and eventually catches up to them, once greece went down the drain. A duty i'm not that happy for. So if you believe that im excited to go there, in our protectorate, i must disappoint you. we are well aware of that. you preferred to go to canada at a much cushier position ... you know...the easier route out

 

seriously ... take the red pill, and broaden your ideas and perceptions of how deep the rabbit hole is or might be .... or maybe you prefer the blue pill which simply allows you to believe what you want to believe, or allowed to believe, based on what is served to you ;)

 

(by the way, just so we maybe get onto the same page ... its the same to what i say to other greeks, and by "other greeks" (definitely not all ...or most) i refer to those that chose to be blindingly hell bent in the directly opposite pole as yours - believe me...there are quite a few of them )

 

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Guest daman

a physcic on the Montell Williams show back in the late 90's said that one day every country in the world is going to be using the same currency/money system. something to think about since most of the money we have now is borrowed from a few top countries already. Might as well combine it since they baically own it anyways.

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a physcic on the Montell Williams show back in the late 90's said that one day every country in the world is going to be using the same currency/money system. something to think about since most of the money we have now is borrowed from a few top countries already. Might as well combine it since they baically own it anyways.

A Psychic?

Here we are. In the 21st century and most people still don't understand how something as simple as fiat currency works. Even though the concept originated in the late middle ages.

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Guest PatrickT

seriously ... take the red pill, and broaden your ideas and perceptions of how deep the rabbit hole is or might be .... or maybe you prefer the blue pill which simply allows you to believe what you want to believe, or allowed to believe, based on what is served to you ;)

 

(by the way, just so we maybe get onto the same page ... its the same to what i say to other greeks, and by "other greeks" (definitely not all ...or most) i refer to those that chose to be blindingly hell bent in the directly opposite pole as yours - believe me...there are quite a few of them )

 

Well you might understand that i would prefer Vancouver over Athens...Vancouver has a night life. awesome panorama and countless opportunities. In Athens i would teach people who are twice or wven three times as old as i am, how to work.

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