outrageous claim: The Greek islands rightfully belong to Turkey

[Guest eyoismos]

so eyo,

 

how did Europe become civilized?

Due to YOUR efforts?

 

Your family was Ottoman a few generations back just as mine was. Isn't that true?

I acknowledge my Ottoman heritage without denying the injustice and suffering the

Empire inflicted on mine and many other of its people. You on the other hand go

pretending to be Leonidas and Alexander all at once. You are right. I dont think highly

of people who, to paraphrase Aristotle, decorate themselves with "foreign plumes".

 

You have no more, or less, right to call yourself Greek than the Skops have to call

themselves Macedonian and that's why every one in the world calls them Macedonian.

 

So you go take your "Greek Genes Theories" to the rest of the world and see how much

attention they will receive.

 

You started this thread with a post about Australian teachers saying the east Aegean Isles

were Turkish, or rather Ottoman. Guess what: That's what teachers in every western country teach.

And nobody has an issue with except some brainwashed Novo-Graecian brats who get all

confused about their "National Identity".

 

yeah right ... and i am african because i was born in africa

 

how pathetic are you going to be with you "credulous" arguments

 

and yes ... the aegian islands WHERE under ottoman occupation ...but your whole stance stinks of because india or the states or whaever WAS occupied by the brits, therefore all the subjects where limies

 

is it not amazing that although the hole byzantium spoke greek, pretty much, as the lingua franca of that era ...after various liberations from the byzantium , and yes after being conquered by the ottomans  ... the albanians speak albanian and think themselves as albanian, ....ditto for the slavs, ditto for the bulgarians...and yes ditto for the greeks

 

only you insist that we are not greeks but ottomans

 

what happened ? your fathers, and fathers before them got too fucked off with accusations of being tourkosporoi , and now you spew vitriol in reaction

 

let me tell you.... from a very young age, i have had to bare the brunt of insult by the bits and anglos in general, because i wasnt one of them, even more with my father and his generation when he came to africa, and yet many of my friends are anglos

i have had to tolerate the afrikaaners and their fucked in the head attitudes and outright racism over the years, an yet many in "my crowd" today are Afrikaaners, i have had to tolerate indigenous africans and their outright reverse racism, and yet i often have africans being guests in my home. i have had rhodesians , as in whites, when in varsity , at the mess, going stupid on me because i sometimes hanged around with the arty farties of the university ...while i chose to hang with people for who they where and not what they are...hell even one time , had a sample of those tossers spit in my food ...and yet duing those years my best mates where rhodesians, some of who even fought in the wars of that time ... I even had to tolerate greeks back home with the fucked up attitudes and claims of being an afrikanaki and not worthy of having the claim to being greek and all the other crap those particular tossers had to offer. needless to say... my tongue could never hold back

i have had to tolerate a shit load over the years, a lot , and yes sometimes chose the time to slink away, and being able to have battles an a better time, and times that i got in their faces in spades.

 

hell.... and this but an example,some time ago, when my son was knee high to a grasshopper, i invited a couple of people over, ...besides the proverbial lot who had to do with my son, ie his friends....and at the gate of the complex, everybody signed in.... yet one greek, just as a joke , signed in as "malakas me perikefalaia" ... the owner of the complex, the next day...went ballistic and went all ape over "us greeks" and "you are a shame to your inheritance' and "disgusting greek behaviour" and all the rest of the bullshit.... and with an offical letter no less, laso forbiding me to have any greeks visit. needless to say .. i went straight to the office and blasted her and gave her the full enchelada of what i thought about the anglos and what they all did throughout the world and... and ...and ...and .. i mean i let rip . she was totally gobsmacked, the black staff i noticed smiling in approval, and all her anglo visitors kept very quiet.... because they knew all to well what i was talking about

 

and the real joke was.... her father was greek, from alexandria, and a very prominent member of the community her, and her mother was a hellenized italian ...but she was all .... England the mighty and god save the queen, and never wanted to do anything with the greeks - needles to say, she was married to a hard core anglo git

 

i need not say more because it would be pointless

 

however ... as far as this thread is concerned, and as i previously pointed out, and something you chose to ignore.... i am not pissed off that aussie teachers might have said that the aegian islands wher once upon a time under ottom rule, but i am in fact furious that  a certain sect of these teachers, obviously of pure bogan stock teach with impunity that a movie iss an indication of fact, and that the greeks where the invaders....fucking hillarious and pure gold if it was not so offensive. would greece ever teach its children to go see 300 and claim it as all facts? i think not. in fact, most in greece, t least of logical character,  trashed that movie ... maybe those idiots from the far right might have not... but then we already know how idiotic most of them are

[Guest eyoismos]

Well eyo, both show the same person: me. My avatar taken with my webcam and the other one taken with my mobilephone. Its not my fault that you have bad eyesight.

 

yes i know .. and i had no issue with it ... until you got all stroppy ...so i gave it back to you in spades and in triplicate ...deal with it

 

Beside that to come back to topic, yes i'm proud for my grandfathers. What do you expect? That i dont honor my ancestors? Thats laughable.

of course you should be proud... as would most of any nationality would be... no issue with that... but you seriously have  major lack of of even the slightest hint of humility and humanity...with most of your utterances  .... which in turn ignites the furnace it me and offends me and insults my intelligence, thus the counter backlash with some indisputable facts of history's own (with maybe a few choice "words" of my own)

 

As for greeks, you blame us for doing bad deals with greece? I give you a hunt...we made a profit. German business earned money and german workers got work to do. mission accomplished. Evrything else is irrelevant.

 

yes we all fully well know, as i have repeatedly pointed out. but we also know you like to shine your self proclaimed halo ...guess what ... you are not any saints ..and should burden your own crosses of guilt too, something you obviously, judging my what you have said over time, refuse to do...because you are saints - point is ... get the hell of your high horse, because you obviously derive great pleasure in kicking those who are down and almost out on the ground

[Guest PatrickT]

 

Well eyo, both show the same person: me. My avatar taken with my webcam and the other one taken with my mobilephone. Its not my fault that you have bad eyesight.

 

yes i know .. and i had no issue with it ... until you got all stroppy ...so i gave it back to you in spades and in triplicate ...deal with it

 

Beside that to come back to topic, yes i'm proud for my grandfathers. What do you expect? That i dont honor my ancestors? Thats laughable.

of course you should be proud... as would most of any nationality would be... no issue with that... but you seriously have  major lack of of even the slightest hint of humility and humanity...with most of your utterances  .... which in turn ignites the furnace it me and offends me and insults my intelligence, thus the counter backlash with some indisputable facts of history's own (with maybe a few choice "words" of my own)

 

As for greeks, you blame us for doing bad deals with greece? I give you a hunt...we made a profit. German business earned money and german workers got work to do. mission accomplished. Evrything else is irrelevant.

 

yes we all fully well know, as i have repeatedly pointed out. but we also know you like to shine your self proclaimed halo ...guess what ... you are not any saints ..and should burden your own crosses of guilt too, something you obviously, judging my what you have said over time, refuse to do...because you are saints - point is ... get the hell of your high horse, because you obviously derive great pleasure in kicking those who are down and almost out on the ground

 

 

 

I kick at nobody who is on the ground. I reach my hand for help. Greece needs to brighten up, work hard and stop crying. Build up your country and we will help it with evrything we can. We want an independend greece and not a debt slave which Syriza dreams about. 

 

Greece as it is now can not survive. Syriza and many greeks dream about holding the corrupted system alive. This won´t work and germany demands that this changes. The old elite will pay its prize as all others do. Thats what the struggle in greece is about. 

 

Too give you an insider information:

 

Syriza claims to be left, but caters the rich. It want change a law that millionaires must not pay taxes in full scale. It creates a law that allows people with property worth 400.000 € to stop paying loans and not be kicked out of their house. We block this. Syriza claims we are cruel. but we demand that this is stopped and syriza should change the law that gives social security only for one year. Our sugesstion targets the poor, yet Syriza want tax breaks for rich people. 

 

The very same Syriza that does not act on the black money frozen in switzerland, worth 80 billion €. Switzerland offers to transfer it to greece. All they need is a formal request from greece. A request that was not send yet.

 

The greek politicians claim they made a list that shows the german reperations down to the last cent but claim they are unable to tell who owns which property and which swimming pool.

 

Tell me Eos, how do you feel about us crushing all this nonsense down and forcing them into reality? From your words i would think you agree 100% with chancellor Merkel on this.  

[Επισκέπτης]

well eyo,

 

before you put those Greek shoes on your feet you should take a moment and consider that those are some damn big shoes and unless you got what it takes to fill them you may end up looking like a clown.

 

PS:

I suggest you read this book by Roides:http://www.biblionet.gr/book/100094/%CE%A1%CE%BF%CE%90%CE%B4%CE%B7%CF%82,_%CE%95%CE%BC%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%AE%CE%BB_%CE%94.,_1836-1904/%CE%A4%CE%B1_%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%B8%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AC

 

In the prologue Alexander Belios describes the Novo-Graecian reality with the words:

 

Η διανοητική ορθοδοξία και ιδεολογικοπολιτική ορθότης στη νεότερη Ελλάδα ρέπει ακατάσχετα προς την ευκολία. Αρκεί να τέρπει κανείς τα ώτα και να αναμοχλεύει το θυμικό ενός μειονεκτικού και ανασφαλούς λαού, που ομνύει μεγαλόστομα στο κλέος των προγόνων και τα πεπρωμένα τής φυλής, αλλά επιδίδεται φανατικά στη μικρολογία και τη διεθνή επαιτεία. Συντηρεί εθνικές φαντασιώσεις, που μυρίζουν μούχλα σχολαρχείου και κατηχητικού, γιατί αποστρέφεται φοβικά οποιονδήποτε γυμνό καθρέφτη εθνικής αυτογνωσίας. Αυτοϊκανοποιείται με πατριωτικούς παιάνες, αλλά έχει νοοτροπία και συμπεριφορά γυρολόγου

 

 

I have nothing to add to his words.

[Guest eyoismos]

From your words i would think you agree 100% with chancellor Merkel on this.

first of all lets get one thing straight ...am am not 100% behind merkel ... only partial ...and there are no percentages involved

 

and you have a warped sense of what syriza are all about or what it claims it is trying to achieve

 

you really need to investigate more and assume less

 

this is NOT to say that i am a supporter of syriza...far from it... i often cant stand the fuckers...and i repeat OFTEN ... and not always

 

mainly because ...well... lets just say hypocrisy and double standards is its middle name ...after all ... what they often "preached" before they even dreamed of being in power, against those those who where, ...and suddenly they where  ...and realized oh fuck .. and now? ...and even worse... for them ... they now have to confront the opposition who use they say bullshit they often randomly threw out over the years... boy that must hurt ...but fuck them if it does, and tough shit, for now they realize nothing is what it seems at first optical angle

 

as i said in the past ... teenagers in politics ..and like typical teenagers, they know everything and fuck those older

 

then it hits them

 

but what i dont accept, it fact i refuse to accept, is that they are ...well....expected to change a mindset formed over decades .... overnight of all things... i mean ....seriously?

 

that would be truly moronic, by anybody's standards

 

assuming that syriza's intentions are lets call it noble, for want of a better word...that however needs time to be proven or not

after all ... they where voted into power by numbers that leave much to be desired, in terms of what would one might call convincingly overall support by the greek populace ... 36% (as opposed to ND of 28%) NOT  exactly  convincing in unilateral support ...after all.... one could assign a certain amount of the vote to the "displeased and disenchanted with the current system" ... rather than actual support for syriza - the same "displeased and disenchanted" that ended up voting for those of golden dawn persuasion

 

let call a spade a spade, shall we

[Guest eyoismos]

well eyo,

 

before you put those Greek shoes on your feet you should take a moment and consider that those are some damn big shoes and unless you got what it takes to fill them you may end up looking like a clown.

 

 dmn straight they are big shoes and i try my best to try to achieve filling just the little tip at the end where the foot never reaches. i am not stupid

but at the same token, let nobody dare to deny me the right to try and achieve this

 

and yes .. i will try get my hands on the book you mentioned... but i suspect its more about "pseudo-ellinares" rather than about nouveau-hellenes, as in those who have inherited their culture, and past and achievements and trying to go forward, like most of us nouveau-hellenes, who carry that burden with both pride and with shame, and everything inbetween.....as opposed to the former , who are basically wankers on crack

 

we must learn to distinguish the two

[Guest eyoismos]

by the way ...that reminds me of something that i read some time in the past, both accurate...sort of,,,,humorous and amusing, and yet offensive and inaccurate and outright bull , ... rings bells of truth, yet stinks to high heaven of falsehood ... right on the bullseye, yet waaaay off target into another twilight zone

 

it was called τα ρεμάλια οι ελληνες

 

'Ενας λαός απρόβλεπτος, που λατρεύει τον πρωινό ύπνο και το αραλίκι, αλλά έρχεται δεύτερος σ' εργατικότητα στον κόσμο μετά τα τζαπόνια (δες τι μαθαίνεις μαζί μου)!!!

 

'Ενα έθνος καταχρεωμένο, με καταθέσεις όμως στην Ελβετία (sic). 'Ενας λαός που πεινάει (θεωρητικά), αλλά το καλοκαίρι μένει στο πολυτελές ξενοδοχείο, στη διπλανή σουίτα με τον Άγγλο που έκανε οικονομίες όλο τον χρόνο για να 'ρθει διακοπές εδώ, που είναι καλά και φτηνά. Και του πηδάμε και την γκόμενα και τον σπάμε και στο ξύλο, άμα ζητήσει τα ρέστα του και τον στήνουμε και στο αεροδρόμιο μερικές μέρες, για να εμπεδώσει τη δύναμη του εργατικού κινήματος στην Ελλάδα, που διεκδικεί περισσότερα λεφτά και λιγότερη δουλειά.

 

Η Ευρώπη θέλει να βάλει την Ελλάδα στο ένα της παπούτσι, αλλά το πιο πιθανό είναι να καταλήξει η ίδια να περπατάει ξυπόλητη. Ποιος άλλος λαός έβγαλε ποτέ άσμα, με ενδεικτικούς για την ψυχολογία της βαριεστημάρας στίχους: "Θα πουλήσω το ρολόι και θα πάρω κομπολόι"; (μπορώ ?). Που αν το πεις αυτό σε Γερμανό θα πέσει κάτω λιπόθυμος και θα κάνεις ένα μικρό Παγκόσμιο για να τον συνεφέρεις. Τη ρεμαλοσύνη μην την κλαις. Αλλά, ναι, να τη φοβάσαι, γιατί δεν ξέρεις ποτέ τι θα σου ξημερώσει.

 

Τα ρεμάλια είναι παντοτινά κι εμείς χρόνια τώρα επιβιώνουμε ως έθνος χάρη στην τσαχπινιά και τη ρεμαλιά μας (σκίσε τη γάτα !). Ο 'Ελληνας έχει την ψυχολογία του αμετανόητου ρεμαλιού γραμμένη στο DNA του (επιστροφές δεν γίνονται δεκτές). Εγωιστές, καλοπερασάκηδες, ζαμανφουτίστες, τεμπέληδες (έχουμε και τις αρετές μας), άστατοι, απρόβλεπτοι (προσέχεις για να έχεις), τσαμπουκάδες, αιώνια ανώριμοι (όχι, δεν το μετράω για ελάττωμα). Και παρόλα αυτά γοητευτικοί (έναν καθρέφτη !). Mια χώρα φτωχή, που τα παίρνει από τους πλούσιους συγγενείς της, για να πληρώσει τα βερεσέδια στον μπακάλη και καταλήγει να τρώει στα μπουζούκια τους λογαριασμούς Δ.E.H.,O.T.E. και EYΔAΠ, για τα μάτια τής απέναντι ξανθιάς (τις μελαχρινές, ως γνωστόν, τις παντρεύονται, οπότε περιμένουν στο σπίτι με τα μωρά)...

 

Εμείς είμαστε Βαλκάνιοι κι αν κάτι θα 'χαμε να υποστηρίξουμε ως μοντέλο, θα'ταν αυτό που 'ναι γραμμένο στο DNA μας. Γι' αυτό ακριβώς εκνευρίζομαι με τους απέξω -και με τους μέσα μερικές φορές- όταν δεν δείχνουν το σέβας που έχουν υποχρέωση να εκφράζουν. Γονυπετείς, δηλαδή, και με ταπεινότητα. Και δεν είναι ότι δεν μας γουστάρουν ή ότι δεν τους λέει η χώρα μας. Είναι το αιώνιο κόμπλεξ που θα νιώθουν πάντα οι χθεσινοί γι' αυτούς που τους φωτίσανε. 'Ετσι η Kατρίν -δημοσιογράφος εκ Παρισίων, πρώην γκόμενα του κολλητού μου, διαμένουσα εν Eλλάδι- πίνοντας τη φραπεδιά της κάτω από μουριά στην Πλάκα, ακουμπώντας τα ποδαράκια της σε δυο καρέκλες και τα χεράκια της σε άλλες δυο, έβριζε με τα σπαστά ελληνικά της την Eλλάδα και τους 'Ελληνες. Τα καμάκια, τους σερβιτόρους, τους ταξιτζήδες, τον Παπανδρέου -γιατί τραβιότανε (από τότε) με τη Mιμή- τις συνήθειές μας, εμένα, τον γκόμενό της, και έχουν περάσει από τότε 10 χρόνια και ακόμη ζει και δουλεύει στην Aθήνα. Στη χώρα της δεν θα τόλμαγε να απλώσει την ποδάρα στην καρέκλα και τον καφέ της δεν θα τσακιζόντουσαν να της τον κεράσουν. Στη χώρα της ο Γάλλος είναι Γάλλος κι ο Ξένος είναι Ξένος!

 

'Οταν οι Ευρωπαίοι κοιμούνται κι ονειρεύονται τις καλοκαιρινές τους διακοπές στην Ελλάδα, εμείς αναστενάζουμε πάνω σε τραπέζια, έχουμε κυκλοφοριακό στις 4 το ξημέρωμα στην παραλιακή, παρκάρουμε μες στη μέση στην Ομόνοια για να πάρουμε εφημερίδες, πλακωνόμαστε στα φιλιά κι αν τύχει -όχι σπάνια- πλακωνόμαστε και στις σφαλιάρες μεταξύ μας. 'Ολοι μας θέλουμε να 'μαστε πρωθυπουργοί, γιατί εκτός απ' τη δόξα θα βάζαμε και τάξη σ' αυτόν τον τόπο κι όλοι μας έχουμε άποψη για όλα. Πουθενά στον κόσμο δεν βγαίνουν στους δρόμους οι γαύροι για να πανηγυρίσουν που έχασε ο ΠΑΟ απ' τον Aγιαξ, και δυο γειτονιές παραπέρα να πανηγυρίζουν οι Παναθηναϊκοί που έχασαν μεν, αλλά έφτασαν πολύ κοντά στη νίκη δε. Εκτός όλων αυτών των αρετών, πίνουμε, καπνίζουμε -τα φουγάρα της Ευρώπης- βρίζουμε και ζούμε και παραπάνω απ' όλους τους Eυρωπαίους. Θεοί; Θεοί.

 

'Οποια πέτρα κι αν σηκώσεις σ' όλο τον κόσμο, βρίσκεις από κάτω Ελληνάρα, ο οποίος διαπρέπει κιόλας σ'αυτή τη χώρα που ξέπεσε. Δεν ξέρω αν φταίει το κύτταρό μας, αλλά αυτόν ακριβώς που διαπρέπει τον φθονούμε, σπανίως τον στηρίζουμε -εκτός κι αν έχει γίνει μακαρίτης- και συνήθως πριν διαπρέψει έξω, εδώ τον έχουμε πετροβολήσει. Στα μεγαλύτερα ινστιτούτα ερευνών, στα πανεπιστήμια, στα καζίνα, ακόμα και στις φυλακές, οι καλύτερες μούρες που κάνουν καριέρα είναι ελληνικές.

Γι' αυτό γουστάρω που 'μαι 'Ελληνας και Βαλκάνιος, που λιάζομαι στο Aιγαίο, που κλαίω με τον Πύρρο Δήμα, που γελάω με τον Χατζηχρήστο στον Ηλία Tου 16ου (fake μπάτσος που από τσιλιαδόρος γίνεται εξουσία), με την καφετζού Βασιλειάδου. Γουστάρω τις ΔΕΛΤΑ στις γειτονιές -που εκτός από τοματάκι ΚΥΚΝΟΣ, ρίχνεις και μια πολιτική ανάλυση. Γουστάρω τα θερινά τα σινεμά, γουστάρω που έχουμε τα χιλιάδες μπαρ, κλαμπ, ταβέρνες, σουβλατζίδικα (συνήθως τα λένε Τ' ΑΓΡΑΦΑ), γουστάρω που 'χουμε ταξιτζήδες με πτυχίο αρχιτέκτονα, που ακόμα κουτσομπολεύουμε, που έχουμε τέλεια φέτα.

 

Γουστάρω ούζα στο Πλωμάρι στη Μυτιλήνη, ρακιά και Ψαραντώνη στα Ανώγεια, τις πίπιζες στο πανηγύρι του Α'η Συμιού στο Μεσολόγγι και γουστάρω που στα Σάλωνα σφάζουν αρνιά και στο Χρυσό κριάρια και στης Μαρίας την ποδιά σφάζονται παλικάρια. Γουστάρω τον φαντάρο στην Ευδοκία, που χορεύει ζεϊμπέκικο, γουστάρω τον ψαρά στ' ανοιχτά της Kαλύμνου, γουστάρω που είμαι απ' την ίδια χώρα με τον Ελύτη, που πάνε κι έρχονται τα κεράσματα στο σύστριγκλο που γίνεται τις νύχτες, γουστάρω τον Καζαντζίδη και τον Δαμιανό, γουστάρω που ψηφίζω συνήθως λάθος και που 'μαι στη μέση ανάμεσα σ' Ανατολή και Δύση και στη γυναίκα μου και τη μαμά μου.

 

Γενικά, γουστάρω πολύ που είμαι 'Ελληνας και Βαλκάνιος. Κι όποιος δενκαταλαβαίνει δεν ξέρει πού πατά και πού πηγαίνει !!!

 

apparently first publish in 2002

[Guest PatrickT]

we see it as funny from both sides

 

[Guest eyoismos]

sorry its all greek to me ...oops... i meant all "spanish" to me, (so you can understand)

so i cant comment - no english or greek subtitles

 

 

but if your are expressing an inuendo about banana republics ... you guys are way way waaaaay too late

 

we greeks ourselves often speak of bananistan and elladistan in our frustrations for donkeys years

 

you see..... we greeks are fully capable of recognizing our own warts without any help from anybody else

 

if you are going to post, at least make an effort to post something that we both can understand - afterall this is a greek website where everybody posts in english or greek

 

and if i sometimes post in greek ... it has never been addressed to you, or concern you ...besides .. like i said ...greek site ... but if actually interested ... try google translate

 

 otherwise .... its like me posting in bantu on some german site ...absurd to say the least

[admin 31]

ajax, αντε πες σ'αυτη τη γιαγια οτι δεν ειναι Ελληνιδα http://www.pontos-news.gr/article/118286/89-eton-pontia-giagia-krata-psila-tin-patrida-ston-kaykaso

[Επισκέπτης]

ajax, αντε πες σ'αυτη τη γιαγια οτι δεν ειναι Ελληνιδα http://www.pontos-news.gr/article/118286/89-eton-pontia-giagia-krata-psila-tin-patrida-ston-kaykaso

You think I would go argue with a 90 year old woman?

She looks no different than my own grandmother who passed away at 89. And my grandmother was PONTIAN and not Greek.

 

But that doesn't matter. What matters is that you guys don't get it.

Eyo, you stumble around in those shoes that are 10 sizes to big for your feet and say you do your best to fill them.

Well buddy, this will never happen. All you will ever achieve is looking like a clown.

 

A reasonable man would acknowledge that he has no shoes and go looking for ways to aquire shoes that are a good fit for his feet and for the road ahead of him.

 

And it is amusing how you claim the Ellinarades are always the others. No Eyo we are the Ellinarades. You, me, all of us.

All I'm doing is holding up a mirror. You look into it thinking yourself a Leonidas and then you get upset because Karagioz is looking back at you from the mirror. I don't claim any originality of course, Roides, and many others, have been doing the same thing for over a century and received nothing but hate in return.

 

The Novo-Graecian delusion is apparently unshakable. Your face is covered in acne but when you look into the mirror you focus on the one tiny spot of smooth skin on your face and claim victoriously: I have no acne!

 

You ignore the huge picture of a disaster in favor of some insignificant tiny aspect that fits your delusion. Since you don't acknowledge the problem you stand no chance of ever resolving it. That's what Belios means by επιδίδεται φανατικά στη μικρολογία. I see that in the statements of Varoufakis just as I see it in several posts here in this thread.

 

So once again, I've learned something I already knew: Greeks are complete Idiots.

And yes the word has a very specific meaning in Greek. Go look it up.

[Guest eyoismos]

Eyo, you stumble around in those shoes that are 10 sizes to big for your feet and say you do your best to fill them.

Well buddy, this will never happen. All you will ever achieve is looking like a clown.

 

 

γαμώ το φελάκι μου γαμω ... καλα ... πόσο μεγάλος κουφάλας είσαι , που διαβάζεις ότι θέλεις , και βγάζεις συμπεράσματα της τσακιστής δεκάρας

 

καλά τι δεν κατάλαβες  απο

 

dmn straight they are big shoes and i try my best to try to achieve filling just the little tip at the end where the foot never reaches. i am not stupid

but at the same token, let nobody dare to deny me the right to try and achieve this

και με αυτό κατάλαβες οτι νομίζω οτι είμαι αντάξιος ολόκληρου του παπουτσιού ; εισαι στα καλά σου ;

με βγάζεις παλιάτσος, αλλα δείχνεις αντάξιος της ίδιας "τικέτας μάρκα μέκαψες" με τα καραγκιοζιλίκια σου στο τέλος

σχόλια για τα υπόλοιπα είναι περιτά

 

your power of observation and deduction leaves a lot to be desired

[admin 31]

Those people who "created" the new Greece, the new Greek state (and they mostly started theorize about it in between the 17th to 19th centuries) saw all nationalities within their ideal Greek state as equals, equal members of the Greek state they'd like to create in the Balkans (Greeks - who were mostly those who were Christian Orthodox - Albanians/Arvanite, Vlachs, Pontians, Bulgarians etc.).

 

Even though the Greeks of the time (17th - 19th century) had already started identifying themselves as the continuation of the ancient Greeks (and they had started giving their children ancient Greek names such as Odysseus, Alexander etc.) it was mostly foreigners like Lord Byron who added in the revolutionary mix the ancient Greece angle.

 

If you read the original texts of the first revolutionaries like Rigas Ferraios it will be made clear that they didn't see the new Greek state as a specifically "Greek" country/land, in the sense we see it today. They're mostly talking about a multicultural society where everyone is equal and all nationalities and religions leave harmoniously together.

 

I found one of Rigas' texts which is a very interesting read and telling of how those people viewed the people of the Balkans at the time ( unfortunately it's only in Greek): http://www.imerodromos.gr/dikaia/

 

In one of the "articles" it says:

 

 

 

Άρθρον 34. ...Ο Βούλγαρος πρέπει να κινείται, όταν πάσχει ο Έλληνας, και τούτος πάλιν για εκείνον, και αμφότεροι για τον Αλβανό ή το Βλάχο.

 

"The Bulgarian should care for the Greek, and vice versa, and both should care for the Albanian or the Vlach".

 

This is a very different world view and approach as compared to today's nationalistic fervour.

[Guest eyoismos]

apart that this idealism could easily be, and probably is, what the eu is all about, or should be, and why not include the UN too , and as we all well know ...not exactly steeped in successes...

apart from the fact that he pretty much wanted all "united as one" to revolt against the yolk of the othoman turks

apart from ....

 

 

“Είχε την απόφασιν να μεταβή εις την χερσόνησον της Πελοποννήσου, κειμένην κατά την Μεσόγειον Θάλασσαν, προς τους εκεί κατοικούντας Έλληνας στασιαστάς, τους Μανιάτας, απογόνους όντας των αρχαίων Σπαρτιατών, να προσελκύση εις εαυτόν την εμπιστοσύνην των, να κηρύξη παντού την ελευθερίαν και έπειτα, βοηθούμενος από αυτούς, να ελευθερώσει όλην την χερσόνησον της Πελοποννήσου δια της βίας από του τουρκικού ζυγού. Μετά την απελευθέρωσιν δε της Πελοποννήσου ήθελε να εισβάλη εις την Ήπειρον, να ελευθερώση και τούτην την χώραν, να συνενώση τους Μανιάτας μετά των άλλων Ελλήνων στασιαστών, των καλουμένων Κακοσουλιωτών, που κατοικούν παρά τα παράλια της Αδριατικής Θαλάσσης, και μετά των συνηνωμένων τούτων δυνάμεων να προχωρήση προς Ανατολάς και έπειτα ν` απελευθερώση τας τουρκικάς επαρχίας Μακεδονίαν, Αλβανίαν, την κυρίως Ελλάδα, κατόπιν δε τας λοιπάς δια γενικής αποστασίας, και, καθώς καταθέτει ιδίως ο Πέτροβιτς, να εισαγάγη παντού το γαλλικόν πολίτευμα. Ήλπιζε δε ο Ρήγας να κατορθώση την απελευθέρωσιν ταύτην, τοσούτο μάλλον καθ` όσον όλοι οι Έλληνες είναι οπωσδήποτε ωπλισμένοι και έχουν προμηθείας τροφών, υπάρχουν δε πρόχειρα χρήματα εκ πλουσίων μονών”.

 

as you can see ... he was also pretty much about freedom of greece as a whole, and its people, the greeks

 

so i wonder what motivates you to take one tiny bit of his works to express = ?

 

but let me leave you with what allegedly his last words where, after the austrians did there number and gave him to the turks with much fanfare , for reasons of there own - probably, by many to accommodate future expansionist desires of their own

 

 

Πρόσφατες πληροφορίες που προέρχονται από ένα χειρόγραφο του Λασσάνη μας πληροφορούν ότι πεθαίνοντας φώναξε στο στραγγαλιστή του “Λύσσαξε Τούρκε δεν εξαλείφεις μ` ημάς και τον σπόρον της ελευθερίας, οι εκδικηταί μας γλήγορα θ` αναβλαστήσωσι!”.

[Επισκέπτης]

eyo,

 

here you go again with your imaginary "Greeks". When I was growing up people who would claim to be Greek would earn nothing but ridicule. Despite the best efforts of the state system to enforce "Greekness". This I experienced myself in Macedonia. The rest of Greece seceded from the Ottoman Empire almost a century sooner than Macedonia and "Grekisation" had more time to take root. But still, somewhere Paparigopulos mentions that when Mavrokordatos gave a speech to address the crews of the newly formed Hellenic Navy he had a translator repeat every sentece of the speech in Arvanite cause that was the only language the bulk of the sailors understood.

 

Don't tell me you also believe the tale of Paleon Patron Germanos raising the banner of the revolution on the 25th of March. Then you may also believe the fairy tail of the Kryfo Sxolio and every other tale our fake history has to offer.

[Guest eyoismos]

Paparigopulos? isnt that the guy who consistently trashed that germna guy you so love to quote as accurate?

omg .. if so, how ironic is that that you would quote him

hahahahahaha

 

arbanites is a unique part of greek history.... generally thought to be of albanian origin but try tell the arvanites that and ,by enlarge, you serious risk your neck being cut, so to speak

apart from that ... from what i remember, miaoulis, mpoumpoulina and others, where of arvanites stock, yet proudly proclaimed themseves as greek.. and i vaguely  recall about one of those guys of that era that couldnt speak greek, but only arvanitika..but much later learned the language .... or was it that he couldnt read and write in greek...but later, after liberation, he did .... cant really recall .. but i am pretty sure he too was of arvanite stock

 

but thats not exactly unique .. after all ..... there was a time in my life, growing up as 2nd generation greek abroad, where 1 in 10 words where greek, and even that was fucked up. and i still feel more comfortable expressing myself in english .... after all , it was my first language

that, by the way , to put things into perspective

 

as for the last paragraph, your amazing propensity to make assumptions is beyond believe. the myth as you call it was, from what i recall, an invention by some frenchman, and certainly germanos's memoirs bares  no mention of that, from what i remember from reading various articles

 

and if i am not mistaken ... and krifo sxolio was indeed a fact.... but very much in tiny isolations in greece, bulgaria and the rest in the region (yeah, they had they same myths too) under the rule of particular pasades, and only in very set time frames in history....but by enlarge, the otthamans did NOT forbid teaching of greek, bulgarian or any of the other linguistic groups, let alone any kind of education - after all... the ottomans needed the educated. fact is... the children where out there helping the parents and families, and only at night did they have the opportunity to have the luxury of learning anything ...and of course ...no electricity then ....nothing but candlellight..... but i am sure you knew that.... though obviously you take great pleasure and delight in lighting fuses

 

actually you just reminded me of when, and i dont remember how the conversation came about, when my brother-in-law mentioned the myth which i completely trashed and in your face opposed it... mainly because i have this nasty habit, i reckon, that  i cant stand bullshit, and make sure those who express it know this , ...... resulting in my b.i.l. exploding in anger.and i mean exploding...... it took my old man to calm him down...which gave me the opportunity to explain to him the facts .....to this day his is still pissed off about it, but does not now deny now that i might, maybe, probably be right.... myths obviously are hard to digest as being just that, myths - but i guess people still believe in unicorns, fairies and leprechauns

[Guest eyoismos]

makrigiannis.... thats the illiterate guy who learned to write after liberation ..and my bad, he wasnt of arvanite stock

 

hey ... i'm only human

 

had to look it up .. and now i remember now reading parts of his memoirs - fascinating stuff

 

ditto with kolokotronis memoirs - fascinating - but again only partial - apparently he too was illiterate

 

why only partial ? ... good question ... i guess i get sidetracked often for various reasons

[Guest eyoismos]

just remembered - got the memoirs of those two somewhere in my archives - will look for them and try uploading them here for those that might  interested

[Επισκέπτης]

eyo:

 

Paparigopulos? isnt that the guy who consistently trashed that germna guy you so love to quote as accurate?

omg .. if so, how ironic is that that you would quote him

hahahahahaha

Paparigopoulos is the clown who invented the fairy tail of Graecian genetic continuity. And even he couldn't help to mention that the crewmen of the Graecian navy were Arvanite and not Greeks.

 

eyo:

 

arbanites is a unique part of greek history.... generally thought to be of albanian origin but try tell the arvanites that and ,by enlarge, you serious risk your neck being cut, so to speak

Arvanite are primitive mongrel assholes with a "Graecian" supperiority complex. And I haven't met one of them yet who could reach to my neck. They don't exactly impress me. Curious though! You have no problem with Arvanite calling themselves Greek but get all wild about Macedonians calling themselves, well, MACEDONIAN? How come?

 

eyo:

 

the myth as you call it was, from what i recall, an invention by some frenchman, and certainly germanos's memoirs bares no mention of that, from what i remember from reading various articles

Some Frenchman? Really?

So was it not the Orthodox Church the produced "The Banner" of the revolution and spun the yarn about Paleon Patron Germanos and the 25th of March. And as schoolkids we would be marched to church every year on the 25th To celebrate the Evangelismos together with our Independence day. This was part of a process to condition us for the ranks of the Ελλάς Ελλήνων Χριστιανών

 

 

eyo:

 

and krifo sxolio was indeed a fact.... but very much in tiny isolations in greece, bulgaria and the rest in the region (yeah, they had they same myths too) under the rule of particular pasades, and only in very set time frames in history....but by enlarge, the otthamans did NOT forbid teaching of greek, bulgarian or any of the other linguistic groups, let alone any kind of education - after all... the ottomans needed the educated.

That's the greatest lie ever told about the Ottomans. They didn't care about education at all. To them it was a religious affair.

The Mosques, Churches and Jewish Temples would offer what they considered "Education" to their respective flocks. The Ottomans didn't interfer with that.

 

Anyhow, it amuses me to see how you, one so convinced of Greek Genetic Continuity, is now discovering Arvanite and Albanians. I bet if we keep this discussion going for a while longer you may even acknowledge the existence of Vlachs, Slavs, Pontians, Capadokians, Gypsies and what not. And you still say Fallmerayer was wrong? Are you sure?

[Guest eyoismos]

Κατά τον ιστορικό Β. Κρεμμυδά, η πληροφορία αυτή οφείλεται κυρίως στο Γάλλο φιλέλληνα Φρανσουά Πουκεβίλ, ο οποίος σε συνεργασία με τον αδερφό του, Ούγο, που ήταν πρόξενος στην Πάτρα την εποχή της έναρξης της Επανάστασης φρόντισε για τη δημοσίευση της είδησης στη γαλλική εφημερίδα Le Constitutionnel, στο φύλλο της 6ης Ιουνίου 1821 (Γρηγοριανό ημερολόγιο), σύμφωνα με την οποία ο μητροπολίτης είχε εκφωνήσει στις 8 Μαρτίου επαναστατική ομιλία στην Αγία Λαύρα. Οι αρνητές του γεγονότος εικάζουν ότι η είδηση ήταν ψευδής και είχε στόχο την αμοιβαία ωφέλεια των δύο πλευρών.

 

Στα απομνημονεύματά του ο Γερμανός δεν αναφέρει τέλεση Δοξολογίας ούτε στην Αγία Λαύρα ή τη Βοστίτσα, ενώ γενικώς δεν αναφέρει ότι ετέλεσε καμία ιερουργία σε όλο το χρονικό διάστημα που καλύπτουν τα απομνημονεύματα. Ωστόσο είναι γνωστό από άλλες πηγές ότι τελούσε και τα ιερατικά του καθήκοντα και μάλιστα ότι περί την έναρξη της Επανάστασης διένεμε τις πολεμικές σημαίες και ευλογούσε τους αγωνιστές

 

 

Jakob Philipp Fallmerayer (10 December 1790 – 26 April 1861) was a Tyrolean traveller, journalist, politician and historian, best known for his controversial (some even say racist) theories concerning the racial origins of the Greeks, and for his travel writings.

 

He was accused of philological errors by the Slovenian linguist Jernej Kopitar, and of misreading the historical sources by the historians Johann Zinkeisen and Carl Hopf.

 

as for education -> http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/istanbuls-schools-under-the-ottomans.aspx?pageID=238&nID=56102&NewsCatID=438

 

i could go on and on, but the fact remains you are talking shit, based on past bitterness

plain and simple

[Επισκέπτης]

eyo:

 

i could go on and on, but the fact remains you are talking shit, based on past bitterness

plain and simple

I'm being objective. That's all.

[admin 31]

Curious though! You have no problem with Arvanite calling themselves Greek but get all wild about Macedonians calling themselves, well, MACEDONIAN? How come?

 

 

 

The ones who you call "Macedonian" are Slavic people who came to the area in much later times. They have nothing to do with the ancient Macedonians.

It's like me moving to Canada and calling myself a Blackfoot Indian because I now live in the lands the Blackfoots used to live.

[Επισκέπτης]

The ones who you call "Macedonian" are Slavic people who came to the area in much later times. They have nothing to do with the ancient Macedonians.

It's like me moving to Canada and calling myself a Blackfoot Indian because I now live in the lands the Blackfoots used to live.

Sorry, I must ask: Are you drunk?

 

Slavic peoples came to Macedonia in the 7th century AD -> NO MACEDONIAS

Arvanite came to Greece in the 14th century AD -> 100% Super Greek

 

what gives?

Could you elaborate on the logic in this?

[admin 31]

Greek speaking people lived in the region of Macedonia since ancient times. The Greek speaking people of today's Greek state are the ones who are a rightful claim to the name Macedonia. The name Macedonia is not Slavic anyway, so I don't see why Slavic people would want to use a name which doesn't reflect their current and past heritage.

 

I have no idea who are those Arvanite you're talking about in Macedonia.

There were (and still are) pockets of Arvanite in Peloponnese and Attiki, but not in Macedonia. 

[Επισκέπτης]

Greek speaking people lived in the region of Macedonia since ancient times. The Greek speaking people of today's Greek state are the ones who are a rightful claim to the name Macedonia. The name Macedonia is not Slavic anyway, so I don't see why Slavic people would want to use a name which doesn't reflect their current and past heritage.

 

I have no idea who are those Arvanite you're talking about in Macedonia.

There were (and still are) pockets of Arvanite in Peloponnese and Attiki, but not in Macedonia.

I didn't say anything about Arvanite in Macedonia. I said you have no problem with Arvanite who came to Greece in the 14th century calling themselves GREEK while you deny Slavic peoples who came to Macedonia in the 7th Century the right to call themselves Macedonian.

 

Are you Macedonian? Do you, or the Greek state, have a copyright on the name?

And who are those Greek speaking people who have a "Claim" on Macedonia?

Do you count the ones who jump of the boat, touch down on Greek soil and take a 6 week language class among them?

 

So everybody and his uncle has a claim on Macedonia. Except the people who have actually lived there for the last 13 centuries.

Maybe its just me though. Have you ever tried to explain that to your Canadian friends? Are they getting your point?

 

Besides: Greek speaking peoples where a tiny minority in Greater Macedonia even in ancient times.

[admin 31]

Yes, most Canadians understand that the Ancient Macedonians were Greeks (Greeks culturally) so it seems weird to them seeing people calling themselves Macedonians and speaking Slavic. They're expecting to hear them speaking Greek.

I have no problem with anyone calling themselves whatever they want. In fact, I praise and accept into my culture people who are not born and raised in the Greek culture yet they choose to call themselves Greek.

 

The case of the Slavic people you mention above is a bit different. They're trying to fake history and claim that they have some cultural connection to the ancient Macedonians. They don't. The ancient Macedonians were not Slavs.

[Guest PatrickT]

Yes, most Canadians understand that the Ancient Macedonians were Greeks (Greeks culturally) so it seems weird to them seeing people calling themselves Macedonians and speaking Slavic. They're expecting to hear them speaking Greek.

I have no problem with anyone calling themselves whatever they want. In fact, I praise and accept into my culture people who are not born and raised in the Greek culture yet they choose to call themselves Greek.

 

The case of the Slavic people you mention above is a bit different. They're trying to fake history and claim that they have some cultural connection to the ancient Macedonians. They don't. The ancient Macedonians were not Slavs.

 

 

How do you know? Where you there? It is an illussion to believe that new people push another group away and replace them in europe. 

[Επισκέπτης]

Yes, most Canadians understand that the Ancient Macedonians were Greeks (Greeks culturally) so it seems weird to them seeing people calling themselves Macedonians and speaking Slavic. They're expecting to hear them speaking Greek.

I have no problem with anyone calling themselves whatever they want. In fact, I praise and accept into my culture people who are not born and raised in the Greek culture yet they choose to call themselves Greek.

 

The case of the Slavic people you mention above is a bit different. They're trying to fake history and claim that they have some cultural connection to the ancient Macedonians. They don't. The ancient Macedonians were not Slavs.

I hear you. But I lso read in the CIA world factbook that:

 

Since 2004, the US and over 130 other nations have recognized Macedonia by its constitutional name, Republic of Macedonia.

 

I'm pretty sure all of our NATO partners, including Canada, are among those 130 nations.

And if you go to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mk.html to inform yourself you'll learn that 64.2% of Macedonian nationals are Ethnic Macedonians, 66.5% of them are native Macedonian speakers and 64.8% belong tho the Macedonian Orthodox church.

 

Makes you wonder if this could be another one of those situations where Graecians have lost touch with reality.

[Guest eyoismos]

dont you love people who use, as a basis for any historical debate ,  ......"where you there?"

 

pure genius

 

[Επισκέπτης]

dont you love people who use, as a basis for any historical debate ,  ......"where you there?"

 

pure genius

 

well, where you?

Have you ever been there?