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Guest FriendofGreece

Abolishing ancient Greek from Greek high schools

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Guest FriendofGreece

But why this specific hate of the Greeks by the Christians versus other pagans?

 

By the way, I found these. I am still trying to get over my horror about the crimes and destruction committed by the Romans and the Christians against the Greeks.

 

 

 

Like HaH said, if we look at the archeological wonders that remain in Greece nowadays, imagine what they would have been in those times. But more than temples and statues, what bright and enlightened minds and civilization we have lost that could have bettered the world we are living in now. 

 

I can't help but think how the world would have been better off without any religion at all.

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Guest eyoismos

allow me to ask some pertinent questions
 
a) why did the greek language survive and carry on being the language of the people?
 
if it was a simple case of the lingua franca due to due to the hellenism of big A, or even because of the byzantine church and byzantine empire by extension, becaue the new testament was written in greek (of those times) ... how come all the conquered lands , backwards and forwards, in that whole region of east med and balans not speaking greek? i mean hell ... some friends of mine (non-greek per say but have some scattering knowledge of the language), when they went to rumania, just about all the times they went to the orthodox church, the services where held in greek, as in the whole church service thing and all that.
 
and yet the laguage prevailed in pretty much what we know as greece today, or t least most of it
 
B) if the Byzantines where so dead against anything nd everything that was allegedly from ancient greece, please can somebody explain ...and i quote

The Imperial Library of Constantinople, in the capital city of the Byzantine Empire, was the last of the great libraries of the ancient world. Long after the destruction of the Great Library of Alexandria and the other ancient libraries, it preserved the knowledge of the ancient Greeks and Romans for almost 1,000 years.[1] A series of unintentional fires over the years and wartime damage, including the raids of the Fourth Crusade in 1204, impacted the building itself and its contents. The library continued in substantial form until the city of Constantinople was conquered by the Ottoman Empire on 29 May 1453 when the library's considerable surviving contents were destroyed or lost

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Library_of_Constantinople

 

c) something tht alway amazed me. i dont know of any other nation, ethicity, whatever , who have the unparralel capacity to blaspheme in their every day speech ...and i am talk in the streets, so to speak, and not in the lounges of snooty high scociety

 

if that is not an indication of a certain element of "fuck you and what you imposed on us, bloody church leaders" i dont know what does. but then greeks always had the capacity and built- in "nerve" to challenge authority

 

d) problem with all so called democrats, especially those that seem to imply only the athenians where greeks, and everybody came from them only and exclusively, "pseudo reality dwelling" and liberal thinking know it alls (and i am talking about greeks themselves by and large) ... is epitomized by something from ancient greece, which very much holds today

 

the athenians calling the spartans barbarians ... i mean WTF? (cant for the life of me remember or bother to find which athenian orator or politcal leader or whatever came up with that, but its certainly true ...very much the same as the thinking of those mentioned above today. i guess some thing dont change ...even in almost 3,000 years

 

and to think the ancient greeks thought all non-greeks where barbarians (and not necessarily in todays meaning either

 

(it is said that the word originates from the idea that to greeks, other languages sounded kinda like ....var var var .... thus varavaroi (the greek word), which the englisg transalted to barbaroi -> barbarians

 

mind you ...

 

Greek historians of the fourth century BC accepted that history was political and that contemporary history was the proper domain of a historian.[56]Cicero calls Herodotus the "father of history;"[57] yet the Greek writer Plutarch, in his Moralia (Ethics) denigrated Herodotus, notably calling him a philobarbaros, a "barbarian lover', to the detriment of the Greeks.[58] Unlike Thucydides, however, these authors all continued to view history as a source of moral lessons.

 

which obviously explains why demosthenes called the ancient macedonians barbarians ....because who couldnt swallow a bitter pill

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Guest FriendofGreece

I think that Greek was the language of the educated at that time. Even if it was the lingua franca, it does not mean that the local populations did not keep their own languages, especially if they are conquered people.I think there were many Greek communities spread along the way from Alexander's time which makes that the language never died. Furthermore, the Church kept the Greek language alive. Considering that the Bible was written in Greek, it would be strange if they use another language to spread the religion.

 

What I understand is that the Christians destroyed what they considered as pagan, such as statues, beliefs in many gods, etc. It would have been in their interest to keep other knowledge. I don't know to whom was the Library of Constantinople open to, it could be just to the Christian priests. Much like the Egyptian priests holding all the knowledge secret, or the Vatican's library. Who knows what the Vatican holds in its library? Stolen knowledge for sure. 

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eyo,

 

the library of Constantinople contained Christian texts and bible commentary. The only use they had for Greek books was as palimpsests.

Great example for this is "The Method" of Archimedes. The original text was scraped of the parchment and then overwritten with Christian commentary.

The original text has been recently recovered thanks to advances in technology and not thanks to the efforts of Byzantine Libraries.

The intent of the later was to erase the text and reuse the parchment for Christian writings.

 

If you insist in defining Greeks by ancestry then please tell me who it was that kept track of ancestry in ancient times?

You'll agree that this was the job of the Greek Polis (City State). You had to be of Greek descend in order to be a citizen of a Greek Polis.

And it was the Citizen Army of the Polis that defended everything Greek.

 

Ergo: The abolition of the Greek Polis and the extermination of the Greek Citizen Soldier mark the disruption of Greek descent. After that Greek becomes equivalent to Grekophone or follower of the Greek religion. The Genetic connection to classical Greece is severed when the last Greek City states are destroyed and the last Greek citizen soldiers are annihilated.

 

This task was accomplished by the Romans in 146 BCE at the Battle of Corinth. After that there were no Greek city states to award citizenship on grounds of Greek ancestors and there were no Greek citizen soldiers to defend Greece. The Greeks did not put up a fight after that event because they were simply gone. The male citizen population of Greece was exterminated by the Romans to ensure that no one remained to put up a fight.

In most cases, such as in Corinth the population was completely erased (men, women, children, free and slave).

 

What little remained of the Ethnic Greeks, being now a small (yet still significant) minority in Greece, was mopped up by the Hunns under Alaric (396 397). And the last remnant of Ancient Greece's spirit was erased by the Byzantines within 3 centuries after Alaric.

 

By the 6th century AD Slavic tribes pour into the by now depopulated Greek mainland. The emergence of Slavic ethnic Identity in Greece led to the rebellion of the Slaves against a Byzantine empire that was engaged in a war against advancing Islam in the east.

 

By the 9th Century Byzantium managed to halt the advance of the first Islamic onslaught and focused on dealing with the Slavs in mainland Greece. The Slavs were decimated driven out and some resettled to the Eastern provinces of the Empire while Greece was repopulated with people from southern Anatolia and Assyria who were displaced by the advancing Muslims.

 

It is obvious that there is not much room in all of this for Greek Genetic continuity. The population of Greece prior to the Peloponnesian war ranged from 4.000.000 to 3.000.000. By the Arrival of the Romans Greece has around 2.000.000 people (Ethnic Greek citizens, Greek Perioikoi and non Greek Slaves). After the completion of Roman conquest (146 BCE) Greece has a population of about 1.000.000 (Greek Speaking) Roman Subjects Ethnic Greeks are for the first time the minority in Greece.

After Alaric's campaign the population of Greece is reduced to about 500.000 Christian Greek speaking Romioi. Those are overwhelmed by Slavic peoples from the 6th century onward. At the 9th century the slavs are driven out and replaced with Middle eastern and anatolian Christians who were displaced by Muslim advance.

 

I won't go into the depopulations and resettlements that took place during the Ottoman era. The historic events I've listed so far suffice to dispel the Myth of "Greek Genetic Continuity".

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Guest

FoG,

 

If you were familiar with the historic sources he so shamefully misquotes you would recognize that Apostolos guy as a semi-professional apologetic.

 

he writes (at http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,26357.45.html)

 

He [Nicephorus Logothetes] tries to deal with the issue [of slavic dominance in the Greek mainland] by importing significant Greek populations from Minor Asia ("ἐκ παντὀς θέματος-from every thema", see the thematic structure of the Byzantine state)

while the original text, the "Chronographia of Theophanis the Confessor" states:

 

Χριστιανούς αποικίας εκ παντός θέματος ἐπι την Σκλαβινίαν γενέσθαι προσέταξεν

 

Meaning: [the emperor] Ordered CHRISTIANS from every theme (district) to become colonists in Sklavinia (Slavic dominated parts)

 

There is no mention of Greeks in the passage.

 

Apostolos bothers to quote the "εκ παντός θέματος" from the original text but he intentionally drops the "Χριστιανούς" from the sentence and proceeds then to replace that with "Greeks". If you are interested in the original source you can find it here: https://books.google.com/books?id=yO_iyRMQH-kC&pg=PA756-IA9#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

But the most idiotic statement I've ever read is the one Apostolos makes at the end of his post:

 

As I have posted earlier I really (REALLY) do not care if I have Illyrian, Genoese, Venetian, Turkic, Germanic, or sub-Saharan genes. According to Herodotus, Greeks are defined by the four principles of Ὅμαιμον-Homaemon (same blood), Ὁμόγλωσσον-Homoglosson (same language), Ὁμόθρησκον-Homothreskon (same religion) & Ὁμότροπον Ἔθος-Homotropon Ethos (same customs). Even if the first part of the "equation" (homaemon), today is out of the question, the other three parts (homoglosson, homothreskon & homotropon) are still valid; there is, an unbroken cultural history & tradition, as well as an inhabitation of the same territory by Greek-speaking people for millenia.

That's just beyond comical! Does he think Aristotle, Leonidas and Heraclitus were Tsamiko dancing Orthodox Christians?

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Guest FriendofGreece

No, I am not familiar with historic sources, I start from zero. Thanks for the link but my Greek is limited to a few words only. 

 

Interesting that Herodotus mentioned the "same blood" and that it is an "and" and not "or", meaning all four conditions must be met. It is the first time I see this mentioned in defining being a Greek, because usually, the definition of Greek is rather loose without reference to the same blood which is the genetic trait. Now at a time when they did not have ADN knowledge (I suppose), how would one go about knowing if a person is of the same blood?

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