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Guest palikari

Who's going to church this (Holy) Week?

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Guest eyoismos

and talking about einstein and children, this reminds me of a little story, once upon a time, back in the day, before i got shackled with the proverbial ball an chain ...

 

went once to a happy clapper type of convention/service, part because of curiosity, part as a matter of respect of this bird i was going out with at the time. i wont bother telling one about how pissed off i got with the preacher (only because i can remember the details, i only remember that i got angry with the crap he was coming up with misinterpreting what was said in the bible, as only happy clappers can only do)

 

anyway, after the service, i noticed a couple of self righteous, holler than though, really snobby individuals got together somewhere on the side somewhere, to do their thing they do best. why i remember that, is that while this was going on,  i noticed one of their kids (i sorta kinda knew some of them) must have been around two years old or somewhere about there, she lifted her "sunday best" little dress and held it up in front of her eyes, and to my astonishment, started to half run half walk, obviously not being able to see where she was going, and before i could react,  bam,  face-planted into a wall. Wasnt hurt or anything - guess here hands acted as a sort of buffer that absorbed the impact, but strange thing was ...she half cried and half laughed at the whole thing

 

now imagine the allegories and interpretations that can be derived from this,.... from what could have been described as the lack of "divine" intervention (myself stopping her from getting hurt, for kids that age can only but see us as some form of gods) all the way to her discovery of the laws of physics

 

which only puts another alleged quote by einstein into perspective, and i dont remember exactly how it was stated, somewhere along the lines of the overly religious being almost as funny as the fanatic atheist, or something like that (or was it the other way round?)

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Guest eyoismos

found it ....

 

 

The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer

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Alleged is the right word for many of those quotes you posted...

 

In any case, the man himself has said many times in interviews and in his writings that he's not religious (and I provided several of this quotes - with actual quotations of where they came from) so there's no point continue beating a dead horse. I'll leave it at that.

 

In fact I'll close with this  :D

 

Albert-Einstein-Famous-Quotes.jpg

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Guest eyoismos

oh my !

 

first you imply all my quotes are pie in the sky

 

then i give you the source of the first quote ...

 

and then its "most of my quotes"

 

lets drop the percentages, shall we , just for the fun of it

 

the second quote i posted .... from the same book i mentioned earlier on ... page 97 (at least on my copy)

 

sigh

 

oh well ... lets speed up the fishing expedition shall we, and go one step further .... the one about lame and blind

 

from a symposium in 1940 : http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/library/ae_scire.htm

 

 

Now, even though the realms of religion and science in themselves are clearly marked off from each other, nevertheless there exist between the two strong reciprocal relationships and dependencies. Though religion may be that which determines the goal, it has, nevertheless, learned from science, in the broadest sense, what means will contribute to the attainment of the goals it has set up. But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion. To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

 

 

or to put it differently .... since you spoke about dead horses ....

 

quotation-mark-twain-death-meetville-quo

 

(first you throw out the bait, the fish will bite, ...strike! ...and it will  protest like a tasmanian devil on crack,  thrashing about  about above the water, ..... but the trick is patience, ... play with the "victim" and slowly real him in -> on_the_quiet.gif )

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Read this about that quote you provided: https://newrepublic.com/article/115821/einsteins-famous-quote-science-religion-didnt-mean-taught

 

Unfortunately uncle Albert is not around anymore to put all those claims about his belief or non-belief to rest, but whatever the case what does it matter what Einstein, or anyone else for that matter, thinks about religion or non-religion? Would you become an atheist if Einstein would clearly state that he doesn't believe in god? (which he has as I showed you earlier...).

 

Since we're still talking about Einstein, to end the discussion about his conviction, here's again one of his quotes I posted earlier where he clearly talks about his religious beliefs in a straightforward way:

 

 

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

 

-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

 

 

It seems pretty clear to me that he clearly says - in a no roundabout way - that he does not believe in god. Don't you think?

 

In any way, back to the original question (which had nothing to do with Einstein...): Did I decide that it's pointless to believe in a god, any god, because Einstein or Nietzsche or George Orwell or Bertrand Russell or Richard Dawkins told me so? To me it's just common sense. It just takes a little of bit of reading and understanding of physical sciences and then just reading one of the holy books - any of them, doesn't matter which one, they're all garbage. If this exercise doesn't automatically make you an atheist then you probably don't get science  :D

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Guest eyoismos

so ......

what are you saying now ?

 

that my quotes from E are all valid and that you were talking crap? ;)

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Sure, some of them were valid but taken out of context. As usual you focus on the tree and miss the forest (in fact you usually beat the crap our of the tree for no real reason. Leave that poor tree alone... :D)

 

Jen's original question was what made me become non-religious.

My answer was "common sense and education" and your next post was "yes but Einstein...". :blink:

 

I could go on then and post hundreds of other quotes of "smart" people who say that they don't believe in god. So what? What's the point of this?

 

Jen asked why I chose to be non-religious. She didn't ask why Einstein or Bertrand Russell or Richard Dawkins chose to become non-religious. They obviously had their own reasons. I have mine.

 

What made you believe in god (in the Christian Orthodox god)? Let me guess...your parents?

If you were born into a muslim or a jewish or a hindu family wouldn't you naturally believe in something different than what you believe in today? 

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Guest eyoismos

 

Sure, some of them were valid but taken out of context.

 

some of them? please tell me which ones they might be, and by the same token  which ones are not

 

taken out of context is NOT the issue, I didnt bring up anything to do with context. just stated the quote.

 

i say YOU brought up the concept of context. based i fear on only one thing, proconceptions  of what you assumed

 

me? lets just say there is no context when one goes fishing, other to catch  fish, and you took the bait, hook line and sinker

 

 i mean seriously... did i say anywhere that big E was a religious man, or even that he wasnt, or anything in between?

 

did i imply?

 

well.... this is he nature of bait .... an assumption of a promise of wonderful things to come. the fish assumes food, i assume food

 

its all relative

 

which only proves  einstein so wonderful

 

:P

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Guest eyoismos

just for the record ... einstein never got militaristic about it. dawkins did, almost to the point that someone might think he was starting a new religion, and he was the almighty preacher who only he told the  truth and the light, and those who follow him ...well .you know the rest. which makes him just a big a tosser as the rest of the religious fanatics, only he has a "religion" of his own

 

(and for the record, i both posses his book "The God Delusion" AND have read it, and my intelligence and education knows to recognize a new age "bible puncher" of a new form ..... and lets see if anybody recognizes "bible puncher" in its context that i state - when he sticks to science one can not find fault, NOT ONE, but when he sticks his nose into the matters of faith, irrelevant of religion, which has zero to do with science ... he is a total ... i wont even bother to say the words  ..... apart from the concept they i deplore "fanatical fundamentalists"..... religious or not)

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Guest

It doesn't matter what Einstein said.

 

Guess what, every other day you hear about some Hindu Guru who has gone without food or water for decades, or who can levitate, or make the blind see. Do you spend any time considering those claims or do you dismiss them as lies? I tend to think that you do the latter.

 

And yet you believe in some guy who fed 5000 people on one loaf of bread, raised the dead, rose from the grave 3 days after he was crucified and so on. Why is that? 

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Guest eyoismos

 

And yet you believe in .......

wow! talk about wildly speculative assumptions

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