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Guest HappyAsHellas

Διακοπες

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Guest HappyAsHellas

Αφήνουμε για τις διακοπές μας σε δύο εβδομάδες ..... Δεν μπορώ να περιμένω!

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Guest HappyAsHellas

Off to Rhodes for 2 weeks, staying in the village of Lindos which is sadly quieter these days since the building of the open prisons nearby (all inclusive hotels). The village is busy through the day, but at night most people head back to their hotels, leaving the village restaurants very quiet, and lacking in customers and income.  I was speaking to a local farmer on my last visit who told me that all the food for the hotels is flown in - even the tomatoes! Whilst they do employ local people they can kill of the local economy. Modern tourism I suppose, but thankfully I'm an old fart, stuck in my ways.

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Guest eyoismos

so let me get this right .... the produce of the farmers is "exported" via ship .... and then produce is brought in by air back to rhodes?

 

sounds about normal in this whacked out modern age

 

or as an example .... here in zambia, one of the worlds leaders of copper mining ..... imports copper wire

 

so dont take it too much to heart what you complained about

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Guest eyoismos

by the way HaH .... silly question .... but out of curiosity, so you dont take it the wrong way please ....

are you 1st generation or 2nd, may later greek (presumably)

 

why i ask is because your intro into this subject sounds kinda .... "translated" ...kinda from english way of phrasing to greek

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Guest HappyAsHellas

There is no Greek blood whatsoever in my family. I thought that the word for leaving would be φευγουμε so I ran it through google translate and printed what they adapted it to as I felt sure I would be wrong. I'm trying to learn Greek and find it very interesting if a little bewildering at times. From now on if I'm writing something in Greek I'll just put what I think it should be and let you guys correct me.

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Guest eyoismos

i take it then you are part of the other tribe that likes to have natural airconditioning for their tackle in their traditional clothing - hehehehe

 

your first (educated i presume) guess was correct. aka φεύγουμε

 

although "αφήνουμε" technically is the correct translation for "we are leaving" ... but with the proviso of "leaving alone/behind , abandoning" ...that kinda thing

 

but this demonstrates why you might sometimes find it bewildering - the secret .... word for word translations dont quite do it often enough

 

her is the real question though .... how are you coping with the 3 genders of greek nouns, aka male, female, neutral ?

from what i can figure out, most northern european language speakers have a big problem with that, ...southern europeans ...not so much ... although some discrepancies arise , as in for some nouns , for example, in greek the nouns are female, yet in spanish male ...etc

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Guest HappyAsHellas

The gender side of the language takes a bit of getting used to as there is no sense of logic attributed to it. (well, not that I can see). If it ends in an A then it's female.........unless it's a statue! What's really hard to understand is the changing of words after θα, να η πρεπει. Then of course if I put the wrong stress on a particular vowel the meaning changes entirely. Verb conjugation is a challenge as well. In short, If and when I finally move to Greece I think I'll be fluent in around twenty years. :D

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Guest eyoismos

i am sure that , as a native english speaker , the gender of nouns will drive to to drink ...which explains why so many love to go pub crawling hahaha

 

for example ... "dress" in greek is neutral, "το φουστάνι" but also  feminine "η φούστα", which indicates the capacity of women to drive us crazy never knowing what to expect. spanish has a solution... masculine "el vestido" desperate to rid themselves of the yoke by woman, i suppose, or because the reckong men want to do, get into what is in a womans dress

 

or "necktie" .. one would think it would be masculine , as its something men only wear, and yet ... in greek "η γραβάτα" and in spanish "la corbata", in both cases female ... probably because women have men by the neck in a choking embrace

 

hahahahahaha

 

but seriously ... i have been trying to figure this "problem'" for ages, aka the whys and wherefores of gender of greek nouns, and zero joy, so i cant help on that issue

 

apart from the obvious of course, eg "ο σκύλος" male dog "η σκύλα" female dog - its all in the ending generally

 

but in the mean time ....let me assure you .... just one year in greece and you will be speaking and writing greek better than many greeks

 

1309072344.jpg

 

(world it out,  letter by letter and you will understand what i mean - he he he)

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The gender side of the language takes a bit of getting used to as there is no sense of logic attributed to it. (well, not that I can see). If it ends in an A then it's female.........unless it's a statue! What's really hard to understand is the changing of words after θα, να η πρεπει. Then of course if I put the wrong stress on a particular vowel the meaning changes entirely. Verb conjugation is a challenge as well. In short, If and when I finally move to Greece I think I'll be fluent in around twenty years. :D

 

Come on, English is no better with illogical grammatical rules  :D

 

In any case, I know quite a few native English speakers (including my wife) who managed to learn speaking Greek fairly quickly. I'm not talking of course about full out Greek using all the idioms and all the correct grammatical rules, but decent conversational Greek where they can go out and around and be able to communicate their needs to the locals sufficiently well.

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Guest HappyAsHellas

I can sort of get by and make myself understood by locals, the real problem is when they answer at about 100 words per minute. Invariably I find myself staring with a dumb, blank expression on my face whilst thinking what the......Επαναλαβάτε, αλλά πιο αργά παρακαλώ gets used with practically every conversation. Thankfully local people are very helpful and understanding with my inane ramblings.

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Guest eyoismos

I've gotta admit ..... we sometimes do talk faster than a choo-choo train on steroids

:)

 

but it sounds to me that you already have a fairly good grasp of the language

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Guest eyoismos

Come on, English is no better with illogical grammatical rules  :D

 

In any case, I know quite a few native English speakers (including my wife) who managed to learn speaking Greek fairly quickly. I'm not talking of course about full out Greek using all the idioms and all the correct grammatical rules, but decent conversational Greek where they can go out and around and be able to communicate their needs to the locals sufficiently well.

 

here is the thing .... greek has rules, a shit load of them for sure, but rules they are, and exceptions are very rare

on the other hand, english is nothing but exceptions, probably because very little of it is actually english in its root

and to demonstrate  .... lords prayer only but 1,000 years ago

 

The Lourdes Preyere

 

Oure fadir that art in heuenes,

halewid be thi name;

thi kyngdoom come to;

be thi wille don, in erthe as in heuene.

Yyue to vs this dai oure breed ouer othir substaunce,

and foryyue to vs oure dettis, as we foryyuen to oure dettouris;

and lede vs not in to temptacioun, but delyuere vs fro yuel. Amen.

 

on the other hand .... it is probably for this reason that english humor is often unique with the immense richness of puns and double meanings - which justifies what i often say, a language reflects the character and thought process of its people and those who speak it fluently, as a primary language

 

the real irony of it all - my pet theory -  the brits have a pretty undisciplined language, yet overall as people the are quite disciplined in most matters ..... as opposed to the greeks with their disciplined language, yet as people .... well.... discipline is the last thing on their minds. often enough they couldnt organize a piss-up in a brewery.... but then they prefer wine (or is it whine ?... a favorite national pastime)

 

:)

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Guest eyoismos

ok ... after amusing myself on the last bit ... curiosity got me going ...
 
from one of my favorite websites, www.etymonline.com
 

whine (v.)
Old English hwinan "to whiz, hiss, or whistle through the air" (only of arrows), also hwinsian "to whine" (of dogs), ultimately of imitative origin (compare Old Norse hvina "to whiz," German wiehern "to neigh"). Meaning "to complain in a feeble way" is first recorded 1520s.

 

wine (n.)
Old English win "wine," from Proto-Germanic *winam (cognates: Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Old High German win, Old Norse vin, Dutch wijn, German Wein), an early borrowing from Latin vinum "wine," from PIE *woin-o-, related to words for "wine" in Greek (oinos), Armenian, Hittite, and non-Indo-European Georgian and West Semitic (Arabic wain, Hebrew yayin), probably from a lost Mediterranean language word *win-/*woin- "wine."

 
as opposed to ...
 

beer (n.)
Old English beor "strong drink, beer, mead," a word of much-disputed and ambiguous origin, cognate with Old Frisian biar, Middle Dutch and Dutch bier, Old High German bior, German Bier.

Probably a 6c. West Germanic monastic borrowing of Vulgar Latin biber "a drink, beverage" (from Latin infinitive bibere "to drink;" see imbibe). Another suggestion is that it comes from Proto-Germanic *beuwoz-, from *beuwo- "barley." The native Germanic word for the beverage was the one that yielded ale (q.v.).

Beer was a common drink among most of the European peoples, as well as in Egypt and Mesopotamia, but was known to the Greeks and Romans only as an exotic product. [buck]

They did have words for it, however. Greek brytos, used in reference to Thracian or Phrygian brews, was related to Old English breowan "brew;" Latin zythum is from Greek zythos, first used of Egyptian beer and treated as an Egyptian word but perhaps truly Greek and related to zyme "leaven." French bière is from Germanic. Spanish cerveza is from Latin cervesia "beer," perhaps related to Latin cremor "thick broth."


fascinating stuff

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Guest HappyAsHellas

Scottish joke: How do you know when English people are on an aeroplane? When you switch off the engines it keeps on whining.

 

Yeah, some interesting stuff there but  I think we should always remember that English is essentially a bastard language, by which I mean it has many fathers, unlike Greek which could be viewed as more thoroughbred. At present I am having a look at some Greek sayings. Originally I thought I might use some to endear myself to the locals but cannot ever imagine the situation where I would say:

 

τησ πουτανασ το καγκελο   -   a prostitutes fence post?

 

σου εριξε Χ   - throw an X?

 

ηπια τα κερατα μου   -  I drink my horns?

 

Χεστικαι η κοντη   -   big deal?

 

Running these through translators is as much use as the papal penis which is slightly worrying, but reinforces my choice not to bring them up in front of Greek people. (face to face obviously). I use some trepidation because on a previous visit I had learned that a classic Greek saying was "I wish I had the life of a chicken". The confused looks of people I previously thought were friendly but are now shuffling to the other end of the bar taught me not to believe everything I read on the internet. Any guidance on the above sayings, or actual sayings that Greeks use in everyday life would be greatly appreciated.

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Guest eyoismos

oh boy .. now you are really opening a can of worms there.
 
I could go and explain how many of these expression came about , but that would take way too long
 
but i did find this for your as as starting point
 

The 21 funniest Greek expressions (and how to use them)

1. A Greek doesn’t say “I have no idea what’s going on”…she says “I’ve lost my eggs and baskets” (ἐχω χἀσει τα αυγἀ και τα καλἀθια).

2. A Greek doesn’t just “make your life hell”…he “makes your life a roller skate” (σου κἀνει την ζωἠ πατἰνι).

3. In Greece, a situation doesn’t just “get out of hand”…it turns into “a whore’s fencepost” (της πουτἀνας το κἀγκελο).

4. A Greek isn’t just “doing nothing”…he’s “swatting flies” (βαρἀει μὐγες).

5. A Greek house isn’t just “messy”…it’s a “brothel” (μπουρδἐλο).

6. A Greek isn’t just “very busy”…she’s “running without arriving” (τρἐχει και δεν φτἀνει).

7. A Greek doesn’t just “irritate you”…she “breaks your nerves” (σου σπἀει τα νεὐρα).

8. In Greece, something isn’t “unbearable…it “can’t be fought” (δεν παλεὐεται).

9. Greeks aren’t just “exhausted”…they are “in pieces” (κομμἀτια).

10. A Greek person isn’t just “high and mighty” or a “diva”…she is “astride a reed” (ἐχει καβαλἠσει καλἀμι).

11. In Greece, people don’t just “turn you down”…they “throw you an X” (σου ἐριξε Χ).

12. A Greek person isn’t just “stupid”…he’s a “brick” (τοὐβλο).

13. A Greek person doesn’t just “cheat on you”…he “puts horns on you” (σε κερατὠνει).

14. A Greek is not told to “go jump in a lake”…he is told to “go see if the boats are moving” (πἠγαινε να δεἰς αν κουνιοὐντε οι βἀρκες).

15. Greeks don’t just “get into a fight”…they “become yarn balls” (γἰναμε μαλλιἀ κουβἀρια).

16. A Greek isn’t just “fit”…she is “slices” (φἐτες).

17. Greeks that are really drunk aren’t “wasted”…they are “pie” (πἰτα).

18. Also, they are “pie” because they “drank their horns” (ἠπια τα κερατἀ μου).

19. In Greece, a place isn’t “really far away”…it’s “by the devil’s mother” (στου διαὀλου την μἀνα).

20. A Greek doesn’t get “beat up”…he “eats wood” (τρὠει ξὐλο).

21. A Greek doesn’t say something incomprehensible is “all Greek to me”…instead, it is “like you are speaking Chinese” (εἰναι σαν να μου μιλἀς Κινἐζικα).

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Guest HappyAsHellas

What is the horn thing about? If I cheat on someone I put horns on them and if I get really drunk, then I drank my horns. Does everybody have horns? I'll maybe wait till I see a family friend and consult him about this strange subject. Any ideas what a whores fencepost is supposed to represent? I suppose the English equivalent might be a clusterf**k, which at least  seems to make a bit of sense.

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Believe it or not, there's a perfectly good explanation for most of these sayings. A few years ago we had a good laugh in this forum trying to list and "translate" a long list of those sayings. Unfortunately the old forum crashed a couple of years back and we lost all this information.

 

To go back to your question about the whore's fencepost...  :D

 

This expression is used when we want to say that there are big (and unruly) crowds somewhere. Γινεται της πουτανας το καγκελο.

From what I know this expression came about sometime before or after WWII when the allied fleet used to anchor at the port of Faliro (or it could have been WWI...). When the allied fleet was there the prostitutes of the area would squeeze themselves in a small platform (which was surrounded by an iron fence...) waiting for their sailor clients. As you can image that platform was way too small to fit all the prostitutes and there was a lot of pushing and shoving between the girls to get themselves at the front and "show off" their stuff. So that was the "whore's fencepost".

 

In fact, I did a quick search and found the exact platform, it's this one: 

10569059_765630006821038_596787797298207

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Guest eyoismos

What is the horn thing about? If I cheat on someone I put horns on them and if I get really drunk, then I drank my horns. ....

 

 

The word cuckold derives from the cuckoo bird, alluding to its habit of laying its eggs in other birds' nests

 

furthermore

In Western traditions, cuckolds have sometimes been described as "wearing the horns of a cuckold" or just "wearing the horns." This is an allusion to the mating habits of stags, who forfeit their mates when they are defeated by another male. In Italy (especially in Southern Italy, where it is a major personal offence), the insult is often accompanied by the sign of the horns. In French, the term is porter des cornes, which is used by Molière to describe someone whose consort has been unfaithful. In German, the term is "jemandem Hörner aufsetzen", or "Hörner tragen", the husband is "der gehörnte Ehemann".

 

the use of horns as far as drinking is concerned, i dont think its related, at least nothing to do with being betrayed 

 

'ηπιε τα κέρατα του" means drinking excessively, way to much, etc

similarly one would use the "horns" in any way that implies excessiveness

 

for example "βγάζω τα κέρατα μου"  ... I'm making a shit load of money

or

"τα κέρατά του έπαιξε πάλι ο μπασίστας" ... the bass player was fucking awesome again (kinda thing)

 

generally used to indicate "way above norm", if you get my drift

 

oh ... and you will also come across a variant of the expression about the whore's fence... aka  "της Πόπης το κάγκελο" in more, allegedly, polite circles, though i am pretty sure Πόπη was one of the  hookers -  he he he

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Guest eyoismos

good find with the photo admin

only ... pushing and shoving was the mild version... we are talking about full of cat fights, disorganized chaos, the works - "μπάχαλο", as we call it  :)

 

by the way ... i just remembered "high society version" of the said expression

 

Της επί χρήμασι εκδιδομένης γυναικός το σιδηρούν κιγκλίδωμα

 

:D

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Guest HappyAsHellas

Τώρα καταλαβαίνω - a whores fencepost = what we would now call "a chinese fire drill"

 

Thanks for all the info, it is greatly appreciated.

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