solving the refugee crisis

[Guest PatrickT]

 

Number of refugees dropped to zero in last 3 days here. I cant stop laughing. 

[Guest PatrickT]

It was a test run. Macedonia is the new frontier and gets heavily subsidize in next weeks. Greece is a worthless shit country and will finally gets its purpose to be used as final solution for this problem. Europe doesn´t need greece. 

 

 

This is what i said a month ago...ha ha ha ha

 

I cant stop laughing. 

[Guest HappyAsHellas]

This is what i said a month ago...ha ha ha ha

 

I cant stop laughing. 

The latest reports estimate that by 2020 Germany will have taken in a staggering 3.6 million refugees. That might wipe the smile of certain people's faces.

[Επισκέπτης]

       

 

It's amazing how ignorant people are ready to smear a modern day hero, such as Mr. Varoufakis. He single-handedly stood up to the "money centers"  and the Fascists running Europe these days. He was Leonidas without his "300", that is the rest of the downtrodden Europeans like Spain, Portugal, Ireland and even Italy. They chickened out and, like cowards, left him to "hang and dry".

 

IMF and UCB, if not the rest of the London and NY money centers, made Greece their grand experiment. They wanted to see how much the populous will tolerate before they blow up the whole system. And as we see the experiment is still on, and the Greeks try to resist without any support.

 

A good source for accurate information is a site by professor Richard D. Wolff, a professor of economics in the CUNY system, which is City University of New York. He tackles  many of today's economic ills, and has, in multiple occasions, commented on the Greek/Varoufakis issue. All who care to know the facts should look in his archives to find out the truth. He is at  http://www.rdwolff.com/

 

I hope this will open the eyes of those who are spoon-fed the official IMF/German/UCB propaganda and don't care to look for the facts!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

PS.  Professor Wolff would enlighten all in many other economic issues that effect us on our daily lives. Feel free to follow him for more than just the "Greek problem" 

 

 

from wiki:

 

Richard D. Wolff (born April 1, 1942) is an American Marxist economist, well known for his work on Marxian economics

And we all know how good Marxist economics worked and still work in N Korea. But that's what your dumb ass wants: North Korean conditions. And we are surely getting there. And please use a bigger font in your next post. Makes it so much more convincing. 

 

[admin 31]

For some reason (strange reason to me...) Varoufakis has been sanctified by the foreign media (other than German media  ) and has been elevated to some kind of a genius (which he's not).

 

I got fooled as well early on, mainly by reports from the US and British media, and thought that the guy was some kind of an anti-establishment hero, an original thinker and someone who could possibly find a viable solution to get Greece out of its financial troubles. It didn't take long for me though to understand what kind of a tool the guy really is. It only took to read some of his writings (in Greek) and some of his interviews to the Greek media. The guys is a complete tool and a narcissist. It took Greeks a few months but most of them eventually figured him out and denounced him.

 

Incredibly enough many Europeans and Americans still think the guy is the cat's meow.  They'll eventually figure out what a fraud he is. It's just going to take a bit more time...

[Guest PatrickT]

The latest reports estimate that by 2020 Germany will have taken in a staggering 3.6 million refugees. That might wipe the smile of certain people's faces.

 

Considering the sucess of the AfD its ery possible that we wont have any foreigners at all in 2020...

 

What will greece be in 2020?

[Guest eyoismos]

πω πω ! για φαντάσου ! η εθνική ομαδα ποδοσφαίρου της  γερμανίας μόνο με γερμανούς .

 

αλήθεια ... πόσους ξένους έχει τώρα ;

[Guest PatrickT]

I think greece can hold up to 10 million refugees as permanent camp and solution. The current situation is a good solution for europe. Greece is the perfect place. Its located on a peninsula and can easily be cut off. Macedonia is able to do this quite effective. Greece is middle eastern by ethnicity already so they will get along quite good. Greece is perfect to become a european libanon. Greece is poor, so conditions there are miserable. If the refugees get trapped there, they get desperate and others will hear that you only get trapped in greece. This will trigger a reverse thrust in the current situation. 

 

I see the current developments as positive and hope this works fine. 

[Guest eyoismos]

το μουνόπανο δεν έχει ιδέα για χύτρες ταχύτητας ..... του έχει μπεί η εξωδιαστημική ιδέα οτι αν κλείσεις την βαλβίδα , ολα θα είναι καλα και ωραία, και τα βάζει με την χύτρα που δεν κρατά τον ατμό μέσα με το ζόρι ... όπως και τόσοι μαλάκες στην ευρώπη.

 

δεν θα κάνουμε καν το κόπο να αναφέρουμε τους διαχειρηστες της χύτρας, τους πραγματικούς διαχειρηστές, δηλαδή η ωραία μαγείρισσα "Ευρώπη" και το σόϊ της, που επιτρέψανε, και μάλλον ενθαρύνανε, τα μολυσμένα νερά να μπούν στην χύτρα απο την αρχή του "μαγειρέματος"

 

φυσικά ούτε κίνηση να κόψουν την φωτία απο κάτω . και όπως ξέρει η κάθε καλή νοικοκυρά, ελαττωματική βαλβίδα, αποτέλεσμα βομβα. συνέχεια θέρμανση , αποτέλεσμα βομβα. σφράγισμα βαλβίδας, αποτέλεσμα αυτοκτονία

 

αλλά τι να περιμενει κανείς απο μουνόπανο που γουστάρει να τρολλάρει και να ανάβει περισσότερες φωτιές, με την ελπίδα η χύτρα να ανέξει αιώνια την πάντα αυξανόμενη πίεση , και να την βρίζει και απο πανω που δήθεν δεν έκανε τη δουλεία της

[Guest PatrickT]

 

lol

[admin 31]

 

 

As long as the rest of Europe doesn't see this as a "European" issue where all EU countries need to work together to resolve then we'll continue seeing people suffering all over Europe, Europeans and immigrants alike.

[Guest FriendofGreece]

The closing up of borders up north of Greece may in the end be the thing that is needed to stop the migrants coming in Greece. They do not have any intention to stay in Greece so they will look for ways to reach the rich EU countries by other means. In the meantime, Greece does not have the responsibility to feed and house those migrants. Just send them back by dinghies the way they came.

 

In Canada, we have received 25,000 Syrians, and for what? They complain that they stay in the hotels too long, that they were told they would stay in hotels only 3-4 days before being moved to permanent housing, they complain the free food in the hotels is not good (the government pays $61 per day, per person, to the hotels to feed them) and that they should cook food more to their Syrian taste, with more fresh vegetables, saucy beans, etc. As I said before, the world has never seen "refugees" such as these entitled demanding people. 

[Επισκέπτης]

admin:

 

As long as the rest of Europe doesn't see this as a "European" issue where all EU countries need to work together to resolve then we'll continue seeing people suffering all over Europe, Europeans and immigrants alike.

 

 

It is a "European" problem only for as long as Greece remains a member of the EU. And therein lies an elegant and simple solution to the problem from the core EU perspective: Exclude Greece, build fences at Greece's northern borders and a once European becomes  an exclusively Greek problem. That's exactly what Austria is doing right now. And cudos to them for doing what is right for their country and the rest of Europe. Minus Greece of course which was never European to begin with.

 

Greece has done everything to trigger this phony refugee crisis. And yes I say phony cause each and every one of those refugees is a phony in the sense that none of them crosses into Greece from a war zone. They come from a NATO country aka Turkey. But despite of all this, Syriza decided to open up the borders close down detention centers and reduce deportations from 40.000 a year to next to nothing. By doing so they made the whole issue into a European problem and made Greece's future within the EU far more uncertain than it already was.

 

The paradoxical thing here is, that if they had taken a more agressive stance on deportations and border protection the problem would have remained a mainly Turkish Problem. So at the end all they did was aiding Sultan Erdocans ambitions and getting themselves isolated within Europe.

 

Yet the Greeks are still discussing the criminality of the international bankers, the disability of Schäuble and the genius of Varoufakis and that doesn't leave much room for the discussion we should be having in Greece right now: When are our very own polit-clowns who destroyed our country gonna be put on trial?

 

Well, the last part is just my wishfull thinking. Greeks don't admit their wrongs and putting those clowns on trial after the Greeks themselves voted them into ofice would amount to an admission of wrong doing. So we'll follow the coditioned "Patriotic Reflex" and applaud Lazopoulos, Tsipras, Varoufakis, Kamenos and co. while the Cloaca Maxima is overflowing and drowning us in shit. Greece is already past the point of no return. The "Grexitus" is approaching.  

[Guest FriendofGreece]

I personally think that Greece should have exited the EU and the eurozone a long time ago, all the austerity years have led to nowhere. Isn't there someone - one person, in Greece who cares for Greece and the Greeks who would lead the country to recovery? What does the diaspora do to help? 

[Guest FriendofGreece]

Massive cancellation of tourist reservations in Greece due to migrant invasion. Greece has to act fast. As I mentioned before, it is crucial to stop these illegal invaders to land in Greece and this has to be done now, without further delay.

 

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2016/02/27/massive-reservation-cancellations-strike-greeces-tourism-industry/

 

Some Greeks feel sympathy because they compare these migrants to their parents being refugees from Asia Minor. It is not the same at all. The Greeks from Asia Minor were coming to Greece, the land of their ancestors. They were not illegally invading Greece. 

[Επισκέπτης]

I personally think that Greece should have exited the EU and the eurozone a long time ago, all the austerity years have led to nowhere. Isn't there someone - one person, in Greece who cares for Greece and the Greeks who would lead the country to recovery? What does the diaspora do to help? 

 

There are 127 bil Euro of deposits in the books of Greek banks. At least half of that money belongs to Greeks of the diaspora. Well, 250.000 of that happen to belong to me.

 

Guess what?

I have no access to that money beyond my "Alexi allowence" of 420 Euros per week. In my case it isn't much of a bother cause I earn good money here in the states and I also own real estate in Greece for which I have to pay utilities and taxes. Payments for those I can do in full from the account so I'm spending that account down but I can not withdraw from it beyond 420 Euro a week. So last summer when I was in Greece on vacation I still had to use my american credit card even though I had a lot of money in the Greek Bank to which I'm denied access. Thanks to the genius of Gianis "I've closed the banks my love" Varoufakis

 

So what should I do, dump more of my hard earned money into a Greek bank? Once the money is there it is not mine anymore since I can not do with it as I please. What would you do in my shoes?

 

Well I can tell you what most Diapora Greeks like me do: They don't transfer any of their funds to Greece cause they'll get robed. And they don't invest in Greece either cause they'll get the crap taxed out of them.

 

The sad part is, that there are many older people who worked for decades in Northern Europe and had all their savings in Greek Banks. And now they can't get more than 420 Euro a week no matter how much they need to.

 

The diaspora Greeks learned their lessons. They wont allow the "Homeland" to rob them again. So other than the money they spend on vacationing they wont invest a penny in Greece. And trust me, If you were in the situation, you would do the same.

[Guest FriendofGreece]

You know better than me the situation in Greece. However, in my opinion, there are millions of diaspora Greeks, and if each one helps a little bit, with some coordinated efforts, significant help can be made.

 

The question to start with could be what does Greece need help in?

 

1) Certainly the Greek youth needs to find jobs. If we can help them in that, it would lessen the burden on the pensioners to have to support them. Maybe investments in new businesses that create jobs for the youth. I am sure the Greek diaspora has plenty of talent and expertise they can contribute to, as well as what to do to establish a new business there. Lobby the government for tax breaks, simplification of business procedures, etc.

 

2) Lobby for representation (seats) of diaspora in the Greek Parliament, for voting by diaspora from outside of Greece, etc., if you are not happy with the leaders the Greeks voted for. A diaspora party, maybe?

 

What else can I say? The diaspora is educated and in my opinion, is more equipped to help in finding solutions, if the Greeks in Greece are not able to. After all, if Greeks and the diaspora don't care for their country, who will?

[Επισκέπτης]

 

FoG:

 

Certainly the Greek youth needs to find jobs. If we can help them in that, it would lessen the burden on the pensioners to have to support them. Maybe investments in new businesses that create jobs for the youth. I am sure the Greek diaspora has plenty of talent and expertise they can contribute to, as well as what to do to establish a new business there. Lobby the government for tax breaks, simplification of business procedures, etc.

 

Are you serious?

Half a milion of those pensioneers went into retirement at or before 50. They receive pensions averaging somewhere around 1000 to 1200 Euro. Many of them received what is called efapax in Greece, a lump sum of around 50.000, at the beginning of retirement. On average those pensioneers contributed for a bit over 15 years into the system paying on average between 50 and 100 Euro per month into the pension system. Considering that the life expectancy in Greece is around 75 years those people receive throughout their life time  at least 300.000 Euro in pension plus 50.000 in efapax which amounts to a Grand total of 350.000 each. While they paid at best 18.000 Euros into the Pension System. That makes for an average deficit 332.000 Euro for each retiree who falls into that category. In other words those people are getting muchc much more than they deserve. Thats simple math.

 

So what is your suggestion? That someone like me, who is 51 yers old, should work his ass off and send money to Greece so that people my age or slightly older can sit on their lazy asses and continue to receive money for nothing?

 

Thanks but NO THANKS. 

[Guest FriendofGreece]

I believe the pensioners have to support many members of their families who don't have/lost a job or a business, so it is not as if they just sit there enjoying their bloated pensions. Also, I think the population of Greece is 11 millions or something versus those 0.5 million on early pension. That story is old because I believe their pensions have been cut 2-3 times already. A lot of people are starving in Greece, it is not the high life as you know. The thing is that the Greek youth is paying for past excesses.

 

Anyhow, the talk of pensions would be moot if Greece leaves the EU and the eurozone, as there won't be any money to pay pensions or anything. 

 

I do not ask you specifically, it is up to you to help if you want. The diaspora is big and there are many Greek millionaires out there. Hopefully, someone will do something to help. Help can take many forms, it is not just about money, it can be expertise and knowledge, and in so many fields. And Greece is more than the 0.5 million early pensioners, it is also about the other 10.5 million Greeks. 

[Επισκέπτης]

I believe the pensioners have to support many members of their families who don't have/lost a job or a business, so it is not as if they just sit there enjoying their bloated pensions. Also, I think the population of Greece is 11 millions or something versus those 0.5 million on early pension. That story is old because I believe their pensions have been cut 2-3 times already. A lot of people are starving in Greece, it is not the high life as you know. The thing is that the Greek youth is paying for past excesses.

 

Anyhow, the talk of pensions would be moot if Greece leaves the EU and the eurozone, as there won't be any money to pay pensions or anything. 

 

I do not ask you specifically, it is up to you to help if you want. The diaspora is big and there are many Greek millionaires out there. Hopefully, someone will do something to help. Help can take many forms, it is not just about money, it can be expertise and knowledge, and in so many fields. And Greece is more than the 0.5 million early pensioners, it is also about the other 10.5 million Greeks. 

 

I have my own kids to support and if the kids of some Greek pensioneer are in need they can always get off their asses and find jobs in the more prosperous parts of Europe. Just as my Parents did and as I did. Who stops them?

 

And besides, you have no idea of what's going on in Greece. Half the people are desperate while the other half enjoys the sweet life at the expense of the deperate ones. You have to meet the people who fall into the second category and talk to them to experience genuine disgust with Greeks and all things Greek.

 

And it is not just the pensioneers. It is the the milion plus well paid employees of the public sector, the countless unqualified "Consultants" who are compensated handsomely to run the country and do absolutely nothing and the countless members of the systemic "Greek Industrialist" clans that are awarded government contracts and subsidies and never deliver a thing while they all end up with mansions in London.

 

From every Euro which is transfered into Greece 90 cents go to those people and does nothing to provide perspective to the ones who have none. Every penny that goes into Greece only helps to maintain the status quo and is therefore counter productive. Greece, as it is, has no future. Only the total and complete collapse of the current order can lead to the opportunity for a new beginning. Will the Greeks be able to seize it? I doubt it. Nevertheless, it is the only chance Greece has to a future.

[Guest FriendofGreece]

Based on what you said, it seems that the problem is the corruption. There is corruption in every country, the thing is what is the Greek government doing to eradicate it. A collapse of the present structure must be accompanied by a collapse of the corrupting elements, which is hard to do because the elements are big and many (industrialists, power and money).

 

Greece needs a strong and uncorruptible leader and right now, it seems there is none. Will the Greeks be able to turn adversity into opportunity? I hope so. Maybe someone in the 1/2 of the population who is desperate will rise up. History has shown us that in desperate times, people revolt because there is nothing left to lose.

[Επισκέπτης]

Based on what you said, it seems that the problem is the corruption. There is corruption in every country, the thing is what is the Greek government doing to eradicate it. A collapse of the present structure must be accompanied by a collapse of the corrupting elements, which is hard to do because the elements are big and many (industrialists, power and money).

 

Greece needs a strong and uncorruptible leader and right now, it seems there is none. Will the Greeks be able to turn adversity into opportunity? I hope so. Maybe someone in the 1/2 of the population who is desperate will rise up. History has shown us that in desperate times, people revolt because there is nothing left to lose.

 

The Greek political landscape doesn't offer any viable options. You can choose between the utterly corrupt pseudo revolutionaries of Syriza or the utterly corrupt hereditary political Arsitocracy of the conservative Nea Dimocratia (aka Mitotakis clan) or some mutation of the Center Left Pasok (aka Papandreou clan). And each one of those is using the resources of the country to buy the favor of their army of moochers. That's why 46 % of elegible voters didn't even bother to vote in the last election.

[Guest FriendofGreece]

Well, then maybe there is a need for a new party made up by the people. A revolutionary party. People need to think outside of the box and come up with a leader whom they can support. The diaspora who is outside, and therefore can see more clearly the problems, could have input and participation in the new party. There are so many things that can be done if there is a will and especially, a common will.

[Επισκέπτης]

Well, then maybe there is a need for a new party made up by the people. A revolutionary party. People need to think outside of the box and come up with a leader whom they can support. The diaspora who is outside, and therefore can see more clearly the problems, could have input and participation in the new party. There are so many things that can be done if there is a will and especially, a common will.

 That's what Syriza claimed, and still claims, to be. And look how that worked out.

[Guest FriendofGreece]

So the Greeks have been burned with Syriza. Well, they have the experience now and the next party will be better formed and chosen. You learn from your mistakes, that's all. We are talking about the future of the country, the future of the Greek people. Certainly, a small defeat can't stop the Greeks, right?

[Επισκέπτης]

Doing the exact same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the very definition of stupidity. Greeks are known to have been doing exactly that since the ineption of the Greek state in the 19th century. The Syriza story is not an aberation in Greek politics it is rather the norm. The latest manifestation of a recurring pattern.

[Guest eyoismos]

2) Lobby for representation (seats) of diaspora in the Greek Parliament

 

as i have said on multiple occasions, and considering there are more greeks outside greece than inside greece

 

ABSOFUCKINLGLUTELY YES !!!!!!

 

A diaspora party, maybe?

 

hell no ! that would be a total disaster. and if anybody cant see why, then they suffer idealistic blindness while wearing horse blinkers. because any reality check would realize we dont live there on a daily basis, but at the same token many have in one form or another invested in the motherland. on the other hand, this does not exclude anybody "from outside" to become the leader of the pack, but that would mean permanent residence in greece if elected, for obvious reasons

 

way i see it is , in my own idealistic way, which sometimes is good, sometimes is tragic, the diaspora should, through the number of votes they have in parliament, if the greek parliament eve have the guts to pull the fucking palouki out of their asses, and actually allow them to represent the diaspora, be the shall we call it reigns of logic ad forsight to bring to the table, logic and forsight that each and every government so far have completely and utterly failed on sa many levels, resulting in what we have right now. ...after all ...one only needs to realize .... why again is there such a massive greek diaspora again?

 

or to put it differently, and taking a bit a humerous approach to the whole affair, we of the greek diaspora ALSO want to fuck up things... why should those assholes back home be the only ones with that privilage. on the other hand, as i have repeatedly said before, WE, the greeks of the diaspora , CAN make a difference. and as i said before , again many a time, as a message to those back home, time to play hardball, now that we got the opportunity ..... θέλετε τα χρήματα μας ; δωστε μας την ψήφο και αντιπροσώπευση, και σοβαρή μάλιστα, και όχι εικωνική για να μας τραβάτε το πουλί μας κι να μας κάνετε πίπες. δεν μας δίνετε ; πάρτε  την πούτσα μας και συνεχίστε να γαμάτε τους πάντες και τα πάντα όπως έχετε κάνει μέχρι τώρα με τόση επιτυχία

[Guest FriendofGreece]

That is why I mentioned to think outside of the box. By the way, if you have really learned from your mistakes, you don't do exactly the same thing that did not work in the first place. Maybe it is not a new party, but active participation of the people in denouncing corruption, for example. It is just an idea like that from my part, the Greeks and the diaspora are in better position to make suggestions for improvements or for starting anew.

[Guest eyoismos]

 Half the people are desperate while the other half enjoys the sweet life at the expense of the deperate ones. You have to meet the people who fall into the second category and talk to them to experience genuine disgust with Greeks and all things Greek.

 

so ... all eggs in one basket mentality again i see, because of the later, we must view the former in the same light ? so what you are suggesting is that looking at the desperate expresses an experience of genuine disgust with Greeks and all things Greek, not to mention all those that fit neither in the former or the later category

 

 i think not !!!!

[Guest eyoismos]

That is why I mentioned to think outside of the box. By the way, if you have really learned from your mistakes, you don't do exactly the same thing that did not work in the first place. Maybe it is not a new party, but active participation of the people in denouncing corruption, for example. It is just an idea like that from my part, the Greeks and the diaspora are in better position to make suggestions for improvements or for starting anew.

 

as ajax and i pointed out ... 47% apathy or no particiption in the electoral process

 

to most, who didnt vote,  its a vote of protest and no confidence

to me , anybody that does vote, shows ignorance and stupidity of what a vote means. first of all a no vote, or walkout in parliament, or any other variant means ultimately who gives a fuck about what you want. less people to convince, (allegedly) and ultimatemately only votes count, and bullshit walks. and most people just cant grasp the concept of each vote actually means 2, yes 2 votes. one for what/who you want and one for what/who toy DONT want. we are talking 2 votes here, efectively. no votes actually makes zero effect. ZERO

 

so yes, you are absolutely right. participation is the key. else you empower the wankers and the kissassers with even more power

No participation, as in 47% , ... well we can all see what we ended up with, cant we ?