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Guest PatrickT

solving the refugee crisis

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The way people behave is a result of their upbringing and a result of the environment they grow up in.

 

Most 2nd and 3rd generation Greeks who were born and raised in the US, Canada, Germany, Australia etc. are quite different in mentality (and work ethos...) as compared to most Greeks who were raised in the vitriolic environment of our homeland. Being a moocher or whatever else is not a trait it anyone's genes. It's an acquired behaviour based on the environment you're raised.

 

The same goes of course for the Syrian refugees. They obviously behave exactly the way they'd behave if they'd still be living in their country. It will take time and effort to change their ways, but it's to the benefit of the Europeans (and Canadians) to work with these people and make them part of our societies instead of throwing them in ghettos and radicalize them.

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Guest FriendofGreece

In the case of the Syrians, the reverse happens. They are taken too well care of, now what with:

  • their airlift fare loans being forgiven - just for the Syrians,
  • dental care provided - just for the Syrians,
  • free computers given by the government - just for the Syrians,
  • all the aid organizations working to look for housing, well - just for the Syrians. Those organizations look and they look, sometimes offering 6 alternatives of housing, but those "just for the Syrians" refuse all those 6 alternatives because they don't like them, they are too far away from the mosques and Arabic stores, they are not central, they are not together with the other Syrians, etc., etc. etc. - just for the Syrians, etc., etc.
  • restaurant food in hotels - just for the Syrian tastes,
  • the doctors and the nurses have to go where they live to check on them because they have too many children to move around,
  • community raising funds - just for the Syrians
  • and so on and so on, ad nauseum.

This is not putting them in ghettos, this is putting them on a pedestal. "Syrian refugees" = open sesame. Very soon, everyone will be scrambling to find jobs for them, oh, jobs that fit their qualifications, please. The Syrians are living in a cocoon, protected by the communities that help them. After the first year fully funded by the federal government, these Syrians are going on to welfare funded by provincial governments. Ever notice how all of them say they have a year of benefits. They sure have the full intention to sit out the year, comfortably enjoying their "refugee" "salaries". And really, I mean, those salaries are below their "refugee" expectations and entitlements. Well, they are "refugees" after all. 

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Guest HappyAsHellas

I worked in the middle east for 7 years and have some understanding of the hatred and distrust that the local people can dish out on a daily basis. This is quite uniform amongst certain expat communities, remembering the fact that these people will most certainly return home one day. I have a Polish friend/workmate who was essentially an economic migrant here in Scotland. He is a time served mechanic, but no one would employ him in his profession. As a result of this he worked delivering pizzas and after several months got promoted to cooking them. He was eventually employed as a mechanic by the company I worked with and went through hell with the attitude of people I thought were just normal, decent folks. He is someone I look on as a true friend, always welcome in my house, which is more than I can say about some of the people I work with. He has now bought a house here, pays his taxes like everyone else and want's a nice life as we all do. When I hear about refugees, I think of how he started. They are not all scroungers, they don't take away our jobs and they most certainly can contribute to society. I also understand there will be some parasites, but they are evident in every society in every country. What are your views on the native criminals, perpetually unemployed scroungers in Canada? Would you swap some of them for foreigners with a god work ethic? Life is what we make of it, together we can make it good.

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Guest FriendofGreece

Don't get me wrong. Canada is built by immigrants and refugees. That is why you see me I have not said or complained about other non-Syrian refugees. The Syrians have stood out because of the demands and ungratefulness shown by some of them despite the generosity that has been lavished on them.

 

About not taking our jobs, it depends on which jobs you talk about. If it is jobs Canadians do not want, that is fine. But the economy is not so rosy and there are cutbacks and good jobs are hard to find. 

 

Native criminals and unemployed scroungers? Of course, I don't like them. But then maybe more resources should be spent on reforming them? After all, they are Canadians and we should take care of our people, rather than taking care of ungrateful people. I don't have problems when foreigners have good ethics. Swapping them? It depends. I don't mean about the native criminals, but I don't think this is a fair question. Nevertheless, swapping native unemployed scroungers? Will those foreigners with the good work ethics be causing problems, asking for sharia law, are they well integrated, will they do honour killing, etc.? There are many factors to look at.

 

In Canada, we have in recent years seen immigrants who keep dual citizenships, what we call (Canadian) citizenship of convenience. These people have Canadian citizenship but go back to their countries to live, like Lebanon or Egypt. However, when they have problems in their countries, they raise the alarm for Canada to go and save them. They get angry and blame Canada for their problems when Canada cannot do fast enough to retrieve them from jail. So you know, there are Canadians and Canadians. 

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Guest eyoismos

lets put some matter of perspective, with just but one example from history, shall we

 

 

Trump’s “Undesirable” Muslims of Today Were Yesteryear’s Greeks: “Pure American. No Rats, No Greeks”

 

There are some things you might not know about Greek immigration to the United States. This history becomes particularly relevant when watching today’s news and political candidates like Donald Trump, supported by huge and vociferous crowds, call for the complete ban of people from entering the United States based on their race or religion.

 

This is nothing new. In fact– today’s “undesirable” Muslims (in Donald Trump’s eyes), were yesteryear’s Greeks.

It’s a forgotten history— something that only occasionally comes up by organizations like AHEPA or the occasional historian or sociologist. In fact, many Greek Americans are guilty of not only perpetuating— but also creating— myths of our ancestors coming to this country and being welcomed with open arms.

A look back at history will prove that this usually wasn’t the case for the early Greek immigrants to the United States. Greeks, their race and religion, were seen as “strange” and “dangerous” to America and after decades of open discrimination, Greeks were finally barred— by law— from entering the United States in large numbers.

TheOnlyWaytoHandleItpolitcartoon.jpg

A political cartoon from the early 1900s

The Immigration Act of 1924 imposed harsh restrictions on Greeks and other non-western European immigrant groups. Under that law, only one hundred Greeks per year were allowed entry into the United States as new immigrants.

 

Much like today, when politicians and activists like Donald Trump use language against a particular ethnic group— like his call to ban all Muslims from entering the United States, the same was the case a hundred years ago. Except then, Greeks were one of the main targets.

There was a strong, loud and active “nativist” movement that was led by people who believed they were the “true Americans” and the immigrants arriving— mainly Greeks, Italians, Chinese and others who were deemed “different” and even “dangerous” to American ideals, were unfit to come to America.

As early as 1894 a group of men from Harvard University founded the Immigration Restriction League (IRL), proponents of a United States that should be populated with “British, German and Scandinavian stock” and not by “inferior races.” Their biggest targets were Greeks and Italians and the group had a powerful influence with the general public and leaders in the U.S. government in their efforts to keep “undesirables” out of America.

unrestricted-dumping.jpg

America, the “unrestricted dumping ground” which depicted Greeks and other Eastern Europeans as animals.

The well-known cartoon “The Fool Pied Piper” by Samuel Erhart appeared in 1909 portraying Uncle Sam as the Pied Piper playing a pipe labeled “Lax Immigration Laws” and leading a horde of rats labeled “Jail Bird, Murderer, Thief, Criminal, Crook, Kidnapper, Incendiary, Assassin, Convict, Bandit, Fire Brand, White Slaver, and Degenerate” toward America. Some rats carry signs that read “Black Hand,” referring to the Italian Mafia. In the background, rulers from France, Russia, Germany, Italy, Austria-Hungary, Turkey and Greece celebrate the departure of the fleeing rats.

Puck-1909FoolPiedPiper.jpg

At the beginning of the 1900s tens of thousands of Greek immigrant men began arriving in the United States, fleeing famine and war back home. The 1897 Balkan Wars were especially brutal and tens of thousands of Greek men headed for safer and more prosperous shores. Between 1900 and 1920, according to official U.S. government records, more than 350,000 Greeks immigrated to the United States— 95 percent of the immigrants were men.

In his epic research and meticulous writing, the late Charles Moskos noted in his book “Greek Americans: Struggles and Success” that from 1900 to 1915 close to one out of four men in Greece departed for America. That’s almost 25 per cent of the entire male population of the country.

greek-men.jpg

Greek men arriving at Ellis Island in 1911

Greeks scattered throughout the United States. Many settled in mill towns like Lowell, Massachusetts while others went west, taking hard jobs in coal, copper and salt mines. Tens of thousands also settled in Chicago and other Midwest urban centers.

Chicago Greeks arriving during this wave started selling food from pushcarts and lunch wagons in the busy city streets. The Greeks were met with fierce resistance and discrimination— even at an official level. Under the administration of Mayor Carter H. Harrison II, bowing to pressure from “native” Americans, the city passed an ordinance targeted 100% against the Greek food merchants, prohibiting the sale of food on the streets and effectively shutting down thousands of small Greek-immigrant-run businesses.

In South Omaha, Nebraska in February 1909— three thousand Greek families fled their homes in that city’s Greektown neighborhood after an organized community-wide effort to burn down Greek homes and businesses engulfed the city.

OgdenStandard_Feb22_1909-e1449683082780.

A Greek man was arrested and involved in a deadly altercation with a “white” police officer. His charge— being in the company of a “white” woman who was teaching him English. The destruction that followed— tens of millions of dollars in damage to property— and an entire ethnic community banished— disappeared, fleeing for their lives overnight— has gone down as one of the ugliest racist and discriminatory incidents in all of American history.

The New York Times carried an article about the riot stating that 3,000 “American” men looted Greek homes and businesses, beat Greek men, women and children, and burnt down every building in the area. The entire population of Greeks in South Omaha were warned to leave the city within one day, or risk the ongoing wrath of the mob. Within a few days, all the Greeks living in South Omaha fled the city, moving to Council Bluffs, Sioux City and Salt Lake City.

riots.jpg

The Omaha Daily News, justifying the exodus of the Greeks wrote, “Their quarters have been unsanitary; they have insulted women… Herded together in lodging houses and living cheaply, Greeks are a menace to the American laboring man.”

“Pure American. No Rats, No Greeks”

In the west, numerous restaurants owned by native born Americans posted signs in their windows that said ‘Operated by an American” or “Pure American. No Rats, No Greeks.”

In places such as Idaho, Greeks could not live in certain neighborhoods and were restricted from using public parks.

In 1909, the Rhode Island legislature debated a bill that would have banned non-citizens from fishing for lobsters. It was aimed at Greeks by “native” locals who felt Greeks were crowding native Americans out of a profitable trade and gaining too much control over the industry in the region.

In 1911, a Greek immigrant who hauled trash from various restaurants was warned to “get out of the garbage business or we will kill all of you Greeks.”

know-nothing.jpg

A violent uprising took place against Greek lumberman in Grays Harbor, Washington in 1912 where hundreds of Greeks were forcibly expelled from the town by boat and train.

Violent uprisings— often led by the U.S. military and national guard also took place in mining towns like Bingham, Utah and of course, Ludlow, Colorado, where newly naturalized community activist Louis Tikas was gunned down by a member of the U.S. National Guard during what has been called the “Ludlow Massacre”.

miners-ludlow.jpg

These incidents were fueled by anti-immigrant, anti-foreigner elements that were prevalent in America at the time.

In 1916, a Phoenix, Arizona labor journal accused Greek businesses of imperiling the future of local merchants, informing readers that Greeks “are a menace to YOU!”

Official movements by citizen groups and the government were bolstered by openly racist groups like the Ku Klux Klan, which specifically targeted Greeks, amongst the numerous other “undesirable” groups, including African Americans, Jews and Catholics.

But as the story goes— despite this open discrimination, racial antagonism and even an entire government mechanism working against this community, the Greeks in this country prospered, organized and became an active and vibrant part of its fabric.

A look at calls for closed borders today by politicians and activists— and complete bans on certain groups entering the nation based on race, nationality or religion, are nothing new. In fact, they’re a big part of American history. Fortunately, though, we have the mistakes of the past to draw on so that we don’t repeat these same mistakes in the future.

 

or 

 

on the other end of the "scale" and taking a humorous approach

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zge74dWHA3Q

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Guest FriendofGreece

That's right, that's how the Greek immigrants were treated. Same stories and worse could be found for other immigrants too, especially if they are non-whites. All this just reinforces what I have been saying. The Syrians have it good for them and yet they are showing their ungrateful faces and make demands. From what I know, Syrians are the only ones who behave like that, while they are coming as "refugees".

 

Imagine once they are settled down, how they would behave?

 

Most probably like this Syrian, who blamed Canada for her nephew's death, lying that she had applied for her brother's (the boy's father) family to come but that Canada had rejected the application. After much investigation and her giving different versions of her story, it was found out that she did not apply for that brother's family because she did not have sufficient money. 

 

Do we need people like this in our country? Not at all, there are plenty of worthwhile people who want to come to Canada and cannot even apply.

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Guest FriendofGreece

This is the case of the Canadian-Egyptian journalist who had dual citizenship and who was living in Egypt, working for the US-based Al-Jareeza (?). He was put in jail in Egypt. The guy was repeatedly bashing Canada not to do enough and fast enough to get him out of jail. In order to get out, Egypt asked him to renounce his Egyptian citizenship, which he did to save his neck. Back in Canada only a few months, he is asking to have his Egyptian citizenship back and wants to go back to Egypt. Well, next time you are in jail, don't expect Canada to help you again.

 

This is the kind of "Canadians" we get with these immigrants and refugees from the Middle East.

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-journalist-mohamed-fahmy-seeking-to-regain-egyptian-citizenship-as-matter-of-principle

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Guest FriendofGreece

Delusional mentality. If you are not a refugee, you would not be in Canada now. 

 

http://globalnews.ca/news/2218077/canada-only-choice-for-syrian-refugee-in-vancouver/

 

"Eilia is grateful, but feels stigmatized by the refugee classification.

“I’m not second class. I’m very well educated. I can speak three languages. I travelled all over the world,” she said firmly."

"Eilia said she’s angry about the humanitarian crisis because countries with power to act remain silent about what caused it — the war.

“I’m not political, but I understand that there’s a war and someone has to do something about it,” she said. “They stopped so many other wars before. Why can’t they stop this one?” "

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Guest eyoismos

That's right, that's how the Greek immigrants were treated. Same stories and worse could be found for other immigrants too, especially if they are non-whites. All this just reinforces what I have been saying. The Syrians have it good for them and yet they are showing their ungrateful faces and make demands. From what I know, Syrians are the only ones who behave like that, while they are coming as "refugees".

 

Imagine once they are settled down, how they would behave?

 

Most probably like this Syrian, who blamed Canada for her nephew's death, lying that she had applied for her brother's (the boy's father) family to come but that Canada had rejected the application. After much investigation and her giving different versions of her story, it was found out that she did not apply for that brother's family because she did not have sufficient money. 

 

Do we need people like this in our country? Not at all, there are plenty of worthwhile people who want to come to Canada and cannot even apply.

 

OMG ! are you serious ???????

 

THAT is what annoyed you to the extent of having the total shits with syrians?

 

seriously?

 

so what pissed you off more? that she lied? or that she didnt have enough money?

 

absolutely atrocious so un-canadian behaviour

 

i mean as opposed to "true blue" Indigenous (buahahahaha) canadians like .....

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/canadas-most-notorious/

or maybe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Canadian_politicians_convicted_of_crimes

or maybe even

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Canadian_criminals

 

you really are desperately trying to find scapegoat constructs out of thin air with those highly debatable, let alone absurd argumentative examples of "bad" syrians

 

if i didnt now better, i might have thought you were a relative of russell peter's father :P

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Guest eyoismos

CANADA: population: 35 million, area: 10 million km2GDP:1.6 trillion debt/GDP ratio: 66%

GREECE: population: 11 million, area:  130 thousand km2 GDP: 290 billion debt/GDP ratio: 180%

 

not to mention all 25000 of  the syrians applied to go to canada, because they wanted to

in greece, ... do we even go there? none of them want to stay in greece, and those that applied do so reluctantly, because they where forced to. not to mention like hundreds of thousands that went to germany alone, that came through greece

and all those syrians in the places you mentioned are busting a gut to get the hell out of greece

 

not to mention canada makes this big thing about being a multicultural society

 

in the mean time something like 40,000 arabs alone (officially)reside in greece, let alone albanians (around 700,000 or 60-65% of the total number of immigrants in the country) and turks (around 100,000)

 

and the are all muslims

 

canada a multicultural country MY ASS

 

there is NO comparison

 

so spare me the critique if you want me to stop laughing at the idea of you being miffed because some woman lied or bitched she couldnt afford to do what she wanted to do, therefore she shouldnt be allowed in

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Guest eyoismos

and talking about canada

 

 

Anti Hellenism in Canada

When one thinks of Anti-Greek violence, one does not tend to think of Canada, a country, which has long prided itself as a beacon of tolerance and multiculturalism. However, even in Canada proof of the existence of Anti-Hellenism has conveniently been forgotten by those who attempt to disprove its existence. For four nights during the month of August, 1918, Canadians stormed the Greek area of one of Canada’s greatest cities and proceeded to have one of the largest anti-Greek riots in history.

This often forgotten expression of Anti-Greek sentiment manifested itself into a violent eruption of hate known as the 1918 Anti-Greek riots of Toronto. “According to York history Professor Thomas Gallant, the 1918 anti-Greek riot is one of the darkest and most violent episodes in Toronto’s history” (Yfile).   According to Joseph Hall’s article, Hellenic heritage has thrived in Toronto since the 1850s but this year, Euro Cup, Olympics guarantee centre stage, the anti-Greek riot that happened in Toronto was one of the largest in city history:

    In August of 1918, one of the largest, if not the largest, riot in Toronto history was an anti-Greek riot…more than 40 Greek businesses were destroyed, the city was put under martial law, troops were brought in and it took days of street fighting to restore order (Hall).

The motivation behind this appalling act of Anti-Hellenism was due to a growing sense of resentment towards the ethnic Greek community by returning Canadian veterans because of the immigrant community’s economic prosperity at a time when Greece had remained neutral in the First World War. These two reasons led to a growing sense of animosity amongst Canadian veterans towards ethnic Greek merchants.

The Greek community became a sort of lightning rod for resentment among returning veterans over issues like their sacrifices and the lack of pensions (Hall).

The riots began with the removal of a returning private from White City Café by ethnic Greek waiters. It is this single act, which leads to the most violent expression of Anti-Hellenism in Canadian history.

"Over the course of three days and nights, August 2 to 5, 1918, mobs of up to 10,000 people, led by war veterans returned from Europe, marched through the city's main streets waging pitched battles with law enforcement officers and destroying every Greek business they came across” (YFile).

By the end of those 4 days, over 40 ethnic Greek businesses were destroyed, 150 people injured and $100,000 worth of damage committed against the ethnic Greek community, an amount which today would be roughly 1.25-million dollars. Although this incident is not part of a larger series of Anti-Greek events, it does demonstrate a blatantly racist act of hatred towards the ethnic Greek community. This fact alone disproves the theory of skeptics, who dared to say that large scale acts of anti-Greek violence have never been witnessed outside the Balkans. 

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Guest eyoismos

in the mean time ... after blackmailing europe for megabucks, now turkey is blackmailing europe for viza exemption

 

http://aa.com.tr/en/turkey/davutoglu-visas-fundamental-element-of-eu-turkey-deal/560283

 

all this after they implemented a hard core "Ozal doctrine" by sending immigrant by the bushel loads to greece, knowing full well they wold end up in europe and cause major problems just with their presence

 

welcome to our world of dealing with turkey and their shenanigans , Europe and the rest of the world

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Guest FriendofGreece

First, I never said anything about Greece wanting them or not. It is about them destroying Greece, you know, when they don't get what they want, disobeying the laws in Greece, trampling on the farmers' land, blocking access to the Greeks wanting to cross the border to FYROM, attacking Greek police, refusing to move from Piraeus, etc. These people should be kissing the land of Greece on which they stand because Greece allows them to stay even though Greece is near bankruptcy. You are here defending those people while they are sowing havoc to the lives of the Greeks, entering their properties, stealing things, such that the Greeks don't even feel secure in their own homes, in their own country. That is the sad reality.

 

Second, it is not the fact that the woman was lying because she could not afford to do anything about it that is at issue. The gist of the story is that she lied that she applied for her brother's family to move in Canada, but because Canada rejected the application, she blamed Canada for the death of her nephew. But the fact was that she never applied, and the reason was because she did not have money. Not having the money is not the issue, it is just the reason why she did not apply. The issue is that she did not apply but lied that she applied and blamed Canada based on her lie. A lot of Canadians were pissed off with her, believe me.

 

As you can see in one of the links I previously posted, the boy's father also blamed Canada for his son's death.

 

After that story, Canada has allowed her other brother's family and a bunch of relatives to come to Canada.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/01/08/mohammed-kurdi-barber_n_8941054.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-british-columbia&ir=Canada+British+Columbia

 

You know, you can go on saying things about Canada, and I was the one who told you that there are similar and worse stories about immigrants and refugees other than the Greeks, especially if they are non-whites. But I don't think that is the issue here. The issue is what can the host country expect from refugees who come and expect from naturalized citizens. Maybe the least expectation would be that those people would not go against the host country that has opened its arms to receive you and allowed you to become one of its citizens.

 

A lot of Canadians were upset with the story of the Canadian-Egyptian journalist and upset with the ungratefulness and demands shown by the Syrian refugees, believe me. 

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Guest eyoismos

"first"  as you put it, do you understand the concept of a refugee fleeing, hungry, desperate.... laws dont particularly get considered.  you THINK i am defending them, to which i say, in your dreams .... i am merely understanding .... the blame for the chaos, on face value, are the authorities who are suppose to maintain law and order. i also made an issue of comparing the syrians accepted to enter canada with the syrians in greece is ...well.... i wont even say the word, because it would be offensive....true... but offensive none the less

 

wow ... so .... canadian got miffed because she lied ? or that she blamed canada for losing her kin?

sounds awefully like the riots of toronto where people went ape due to rabble rousing and pretty much based on a lie

 

so what is it?... canada cant stand lies? or believes and follow like sheep gone wild?

 

point is ... pathetic reason for denying an ethnic group aka syrians because of such real minor issues, aka certain canadians are dying to find an excuse, any excuse .... and all the rest

 

and who made an issue of it initially? the media? who is blowing the flames on this? the media?

- bet the sheep are eating it all up like wolves that they are

. bet media sold and is selling a lot of papers in the process

 

but the best part ...bringing an egyptian and his story into the conversation about the syrians and refugees in general

remind me again.... does canada allow dual citizenship? yes or no? so why the hell are they , those select idiots, getting their noise out of joint over this? i will tell you why... because he is an arab ...or a muslim ... or non-wasp.... or whatever other bloody reason they can come up with .... but in the mean time .... whole lot of canadians have seeked and got their citizenship of their roots, greeks amongst them .....

 

 

the ONLY thing i would agree with you on is ...

 

the least expectation would be that those people would not go against the host country that has opened its arms to receive you and allowed you to become one of its citizens.

 

EXCEPT the fairy story about "opening arms to receive you" ...that is highly debatable on many levels

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Guest eyoismos

who is "We"?

 

vigilantes perhaps?

 

because that is the first thing that springs to mind .... considering pathetic justification of what seems like a witch-hunt against Syrians based on some syrian woman  telling fibs and some egyptian wanting to reclaim his other citizenship back

 

now if some real evidence or justification was presented to tag a whole ethnicity as undesirables  ......

 

but i guess redneck mentality doesnt only run deeply  in the states, and not only amongst wasps which is usually the norm

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Επισκέπτης

FoG,

 

last time I checked the Canadian 20 dollar bill still had Queen Lizzy on it. Do you know why that is?

Well, Canada was a British colony. Settlers from the British isles, and other places in Europe settled there, displaced the indigenous people, pretty much eradicated their culture and made the land their own. And now you are concerned about 25.000 Syrian "Invaders"? 

That's hilarious!

 

And it would be even funnier if you actualy are from India, as I, perhaps mistakenly, assume you are. If so, then you moved from former British colony A to  former British colony B and are now patrioticaly defending the Canadian Homeland against newcomers from former British (Franco-British actualy) colony C.

 

How ironic is that?

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