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solving the refugee crisis

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Guest PatrickT

Greece wants to join the single currency.

Mr Draghi "massages" the books.

The EU doesn't check the figures as they are utterly inept.

Greece joins the land of milk and honey.

Lehman brothers go belly up in spectacular fashion.

Global financial carnage.

Greece is bankrupt.

So are German banks...............unless.....

A bailout package is announced.

The Greeks can never afford it.

Not to worry, 90% of the funds go to the (predominantly) German banks to pull them out the mire.

The Greek taxpayer is handed the bill.

Everyone denounces the Greeks for avoiding tax as the root of this evil.

Varoufakis says it can never be repaid with this scheme.

German financiers fill their pants as he is telling the truth.

Varoufakis is forced out and the financiers breathe easy again.

Tsipras signs a death warrant given to him by Schauble.

The bankers are still as powerful as ever.

Pretend and extend.

It will end in tears.

 

 

too bad that german banks had little investment in greece and 75 were hold by french banks. 

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Guest HappyAsHellas

The German banks had foolishly bought up Greek bonds as if there was no tomorrow. Don't worry though, these nice people have now ensured that if (when) it all goes tits up, the German taxpayer will be left holding the bill. The point is that the financial institutions are riding over all of us - we are all paying for their lavish lifestyle - here in Britain as well as Germany, France etc. Greece cannot pay it back, but that doesn't matter - pretend and extend. Was it Einstein who said that lunacy was carrying out the same experiment repeatedly and expecting different results?

 

Apologies for drifting off topic.

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The German banks had foolishly bought up Greek bonds as if there was no tomorrow. Don't worry though, these nice people have now ensured that if (when) it all goes tits up, the German taxpayer will be left holding the bill. The point is that the financial institutions are riding over all of us - we are all paying for their lavish lifestyle - here in Britain as well as Germany, France etc. Greece cannot pay it back, but that doesn't matter - pretend and extend. Was it Einstein who said that lunacy was carrying out the same experiment repeatedly and expecting different results?

 

Apologies for drifting off topic.

I see.

The banks are at fault.

The evil Germans are at fault.

Capitalism is at fault.

 

The hundreds of thousands of phony 50 year old Greek retirees, the 10's of thousands of unskilled uneducated relatives of Greek polititians who hold handsomely salaried "Consultant" positions are the real victims here. And Giannis Varoufakis who managed to obliterate 95% of the market value of Greek banking stock is a "Hero". And so is Panos Kamenos, the right wing anti imigration populist who joint up with the "There is no such thing as Illegal Imigrants" Alexi and left the borders wide open is the "Defender of Hellenism" and Alexi who closed down the Immigration Holding facilities Samaras opened cause those were "Concentration camps" is a true Humanitarian. And he doesn't have an issue with concentration camps anymore either cause now they are called "Hot Spots". And the sea borders that never existed are now patrolled by a Nato Taskforce under German command and with Turkish participation. And this new command doesn't recognize our claims on 10 mile territorial zones but that is something that stoped being important to the average flamboyant Greek patriot around last week.

 

You are right. The banks are to blame. Lets give Panos, Giannis, Alexis and the Greek moochers a medal. 

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Guest eyoismos

it constantly amazes me how so many people insist and persist on looking at the whole affair with tunnel vision through the narrow view of a looking glass, apart from very liberal interpretations and "playing darts" like conclusions

 

its not a case of "us" or "them" being at fault , but a case of "all" being at fault, without exception

 

for example

there is no doubt that our "leaders" past and present, have fucked up, and stupidly, "we" persisted on voting them in, and taking advantage of them and all he rest

 

but that europe has fucked up and needs to bare the cross just as much, one cannot deny

 

admin talks about enablers of greeces woes, but nobody seems to also recognize that those so called enablers ALSO enabled the bastards of europe to do their thing...... for example part of deutsche bank's current problems is being finally busted for their illegal activities, and we are not only of their litigation costs of the past, whereby the spent like 11 billion on fines and settlements from 2012 alone, and not what still is to come. and that is only deutsche bank

 

and we dont need to mention goldman sachs and their accounting practices, irrespective that greece hired them , in desperation, i might add, to alleviate some of their debt, ...and failed .... but in the mean time big gains at goldman sachs...and they are still functioning as an entity, .... all "legal" and everything

 

which brings up an issue that i have raised in the past, corporates, legally, are supposed to have equal rights and privileges as individuals, and yet, when individuals do something illegal, they are jailed and their operations shut down, ... corporates... not so much ...siemens comes to mind, among others

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Guest eyoismos

this while thing reminds me of when mafia gangs blackmail and extort shopkeepers for protection money, the law , in theory at least, chase down and prosecute the mafiozo, in order to protect the shopkeepers

 

but when the big time mafiozos are countries and coroporates, eeeeverybody goes bat crazy about the shopkeepers and their stupid, immoral and even illegal activities, and the former but Innocent sheep that where taken advantage of by the wolves

 

when the later screw up, they are led to the slaughterhouse, but the former do their normal thing, they usually are wrapped on their fingers, maybe given 6 of the best on their posterior , and warned not to do it again

 

but then that are enablers, so i guess its ok

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Επισκέπτης

It is this Greek idiocy that has me convinced that Greece will not survive.

So lets asume that you are right eyo. The lenders are at fault because they gave a credit line to Greece even though the country is not credit worthy.

The conclusion then must be: NO MORE CREDIT to Greece. Not a penny. Is Greece gonna modernize her economy and clean up her public sector then?

 

Are tou saying that we can do all those things we couldn't do while we had unrestricted access to money once we get cut off from credit?

You don't get it do you? Money is a resource and we were given plenty of it. Instead of utilizing this resource we blew it. There is no one to blame for this mess than us.

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I think that's what I mentioned too in a previous post. It's obvious that continue giving money to the Syriza government is a recipe for disaster. Since they came into power they've destroyed whatever was left standing from the previous administrations. If they previous administrations were petty thieves, the Syriza-ANEL mafia is organized crime. If they stay in power for a couple more years then this is definitely going to be the end of Greece.

 

There are people who claim that the Syriza-ANEL ascend to power was orchestrated by powers outside Greece to further weaken Greece and throw her into irreversible troubles. I think this is bullshit. It's the stupidity of Greek voters who continue living in Shangri-La not realizing that the end is really nigh this time around. In the meantime, the Syriza government continues hiring people in the public sector as if nothing happens and nobody (seriously) complains! It must be the "deer in front of the headlights" situation. We see our "death" as a nation coming yet we're completely stunned and do nothing to avoid our demise.

 

If Europe really wants to salvage Greece and (and possibly keep her or bring her back in the EU at some point) they should completely stop all financial help as soon as possible and let the Syriza-ANEL government sink. We've already given up our sea borders to be watched by the Europeans, we might as well let them take over the government as well and help clean up the mess. Our politicians are proven to be incapable of doing anything right. 

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Guest eyoismos

It is this Greek idiocy that has me convinced that Greece will not survive.

So lets asume that you are right eyo. The lenders are at fault because they gave a credit line to Greece even though the country is not credit worthy.

The conclusion then must be: NO MORE CREDIT to Greece. Not a penny. Is Greece gonna modernize her economy and clean up her public sector then?

 

Are tou saying that we can do all those things we couldn't do while we had unrestricted access to money once we get cut off from credit?

You don't get it do you? Money is a resource and we were given plenty of it. Instead of utilizing this resource we blew it. There is no one to blame for this mess than us.

 

wow!

 

talk about greek idiocy.

 

i didnt say "The lenders are at fault" i said the lenders are ALSO at fault. not only because they acted as enablers, as admin put it, but also allowed the wolves and vultures of capitalism to act like wolves and vultures , and pretty much do fuckall about it, except perhaps the last minute, and usually only because they get exposed somewhere along the line . why? DUH! how do you think the lending countries get money to lend? from the wolves of course. and probably controlled by the wolves and vultures in the first place

 

but typical of a greek that you are, no matter how much you like to deny it, hiding in a tunnel vision of reality, its either "them or us" at fault and nothing in between, or outside those parameters for that matter

 

and typical of many greeks , interpret what you want , ... like i ever said that greece and the greek electorate are not at fault

 

to which i answer .... pfft ! whatever ! στου κουφού την πόρτα όσο θέλεις βρόντα

 

and my previous posts bare testimony to what i have said in the past

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Guest PatrickT

I think that's what I mentioned too in a previous post. It's obvious that continue giving money to the Syriza government is a recipe for disaster. Since they came into power they've destroyed whatever was left standing from the previous administrations. If they previous administrations were petty thieves, the Syriza-ANEL mafia is organized crime. If they stay in power for a couple more years then this is definitely going to be the end of Greece.

 

There are people who claim that the Syriza-ANEL ascend to power was orchestrated by powers outside Greece to further weaken Greece and throw her into irreversible troubles. I think this is bullshit. It's the stupidity of Greek voters who continue living in Shangri-La not realizing that the end is really nigh this time around. In the meantime, the Syriza government continues hiring people in the public sector as if nothing happens and nobody (seriously) complains! It must be the "deer in front of the headlights" situation. We see our "death" as a nation coming yet we're completely stunned and do nothing to avoid our demise.

 

If Europe really wants to salvage Greece and (and possibly keep her or bring her back in the EU at some point) they should completely stop all financial help as soon as possible and let the Syriza-ANEL government sink. We've already given up our sea borders to be watched by the Europeans, we might as well let them take over the government as well and help clean up the mess. Our politicians are proven to be incapable of doing anything right. 

 

But when germany suggested just this half year ago it was called evil...

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Guest eyoismos

I think that's what I mentioned too in a previous post. It's obvious that continue giving money to the Syriza government is a recipe for disaster. Since they came into power they've destroyed whatever was left standing from the previous administrations. If they previous administrations were petty thieves, the Syriza-ANEL mafia is organized crime. If they stay in power for a couple more years then this is definitely going to be the end of Greece.

 

There are people who claim that the Syriza-ANEL ascend to power was orchestrated by powers outside Greece to further weaken Greece and throw her into irreversible troubles. I think this is bullshit. It's the stupidity of Greek voters who continue living in Shangri-La not realizing that the end is really nigh this time around. In the meantime, the Syriza government continues hiring people in the public sector as if nothing happens and nobody (seriously) complains! It must be the "deer in front of the headlights" situation. We see our "death" as a nation coming yet we're completely stunned and do nothing to avoid our demise.

 

If Europe really wants to salvage Greece and (and possibly keep her or bring her back in the EU at some point) they should completely stop all financial help as soon as possible and let the Syriza-ANEL government sink. We've already given up our sea borders to be watched by the Europeans, we might as well let them take over the government as well and help clean up the mess. Our politicians are proven to be incapable of doing anything right. 

 

to be honest with you, simpleton thinking

 

for starters, when a government, any government for that matter, in the situation that greece is, sink, then the country sinks

the problem goes a lot further back. no doubt that syriza has fucked up, and no doubt it will pay, but ultimately how did they come to power? well thanks to the previous governments, and as you rightly said, the greek voters, the ones that bothered to vote, brought about this mess. but the problem is the voting electorate doesnt comprise only of kiss-asses, and yes, they are far too many of them. BUT just looking at the voting apathy in the last elections gives many an insight, to the point of if those that didnt vote where a party, THEY would have been in power, THATS the kind of numbers we are talking about

 

why they didnt vote. i reckon many a reason. from "fuck them all" kinda attitude, towards all politicians, all the way to protest vote of not voting. but like i said many times in the past, not voting, or walking out, for example, out of parliament in protest, or whatever, ALWAYS allows the arseholes to get their way, because they DID vote. which results in one thing... those that dont vote are idiots , as ajax calls them, and rightly so  (as far as those that chose the apathy route, which according to the last elections, could have , interpreting it, have had a party in power as a majority)

 

as for the sea borders issue. reality check. what choice did we really have? we have found ourselves between a rock and a hard place, resulting in a typical case of out of the frying pan and into the fire. no many might come up with the theory of "whatever" but "whatever" requires money, money we didnt have. compund that with the europeans lending, as opposed to paying, money to protect their borders as well, Turkey by all accounts implementing there typical policies, including the "Ozal doctrine" and europe PAYING them to stop the illegals (as opposed to, and i remind what i said earlier, europe LENDING us money) .....

 

etc etc etc

 

one last thing, you call "Syriza-ANEL mafia is organized crime" yet i ponder what on earth makes the previous regimes any different whatsoever? seriously? i mean , for example, before they came about, they where like 5 percenters at most, and the sudden jump ... please explain where that came from? let me enlighten you. .... the vast majority came from pasok supporters... they very bastards that started the whole massive climb in debt since big pap came into power

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to be honest with you, simpleton thinking

 

for starters, when a government, any government for that matter, in the situation that greece is, sink, then the country sinks

the problem goes a lot further back. no doubt that syriza has fucked up, and no doubt it will pay, but ultimately how did they come to power? well thanks to the previous governments, and as you rightly said, the greek voters, the ones that bothered to vote, brought about this mess. but the problem is the voting electorate doesnt comprise only of kiss-asses, and yes, they are far too many of them. BUT just looking at the voting apathy in the last elections gives many an insight, to the point of if those that didnt vote where a party, THEY would have been in power, THATS the kind of numbers we are talking about

 

why they didnt vote. i reckon many a reason. from "fuck them all" kinda attitude, towards all politicians, all the way to protest vote of not voting. but like i said many times in the past, not voting, or walking out, for example, out of parliament in protest, or whatever, ALWAYS allows the arseholes to get their way, because they DID vote. which results in one thing... those that dont vote are idiots , as ajax calls them, and rightly so  (as far as those that chose the apathy route, which according to the last elections, could have , interpreting it, have had a party in power as a majority)

 

as for the sea borders issue. reality check. what choice did we really have? we have found ourselves between a rock and a hard place, resulting in a typical case of out of the frying pan and into the fire. no many might come up with the theory of "whatever" but "whatever" requires money, money we didnt have. compund that with the europeans lending, as opposed to paying, money to protect their borders as well, Turkey by all accounts implementing there typical policies, including the "Ozal doctrine" and europe PAYING them to stop the illegals (as opposed to, and i remind what i said earlier, europe LENDING us money) .....

 

etc etc etc

 

one last thing, you call "Syriza-ANEL mafia is organized crime" yet i ponder what on earth makes the previous regimes any different whatsoever? seriously? i mean , for example, before they came about, they where like 5 percenters at most, and the sudden jump ... please explain where that came from? let me enlighten you. .... the vast majority came from pasok supporters... they very bastards that started the whole massive climb in debt since big pap came into power

 

The point is that it doesn't matter who the people are going to vote. It also doesn't matter how many people will vote and how many people will choose not to vote. There's no Greek politician and no political party able to turn things around. No matter who's going to come to power will continue messing things up. So the only way out is to allow the EE to take over and guide us out of this mess. It may take years (it will certainly take years), but at least we'll have in "government" people who will not worry about hiring their friends and relatives in government.

 

I don't see any other viable solution for Greece. If you remember last January I was hoping that Syriza coming to power would be a good thing as they'd hopefully show something different than their predecessors. I couldn't be more wrong. They fucked up royally. Within a year they proved to be way worse that all governments before them. An amazing feat.

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Guest eyoismos

There's no Greek politician and no political party able to turn things around.

 

you are absolutely right, no doubts on this, and hands down i agree, but i hope you see what my point was

 

asfor the rest , about the eu "helping" us get us back on our feet ..... palease ! and if they do anything that goes that way, i automatically will feel deep suspicion on their motives and their "targets"

 

having said that, its interesting what Hollande had to say in greece in an interview with a french radio station, at least according to one greek news agency Λατρεία Ολάντ για την Ελλάδα!

 

but , again , my suspicious mind immediately thinks ... reminds me again how exposed the french banks are to greek debt

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Guest eyoismos

εν το μεταξύ, κάτι που αναφέρθηκε στις ελληνικά ΜΜΕ

 

 

Σε απεργία πείνας έχουν προχωρήσει εδώ και τρεις μέρες 22 καταδικασμένοι για παράνομη διακίνηση προσφύγων στα ελληνικά νησιά, που κρατούνται στις δικαστικές φυλακές Χίου.

Οι περισσότεροι από αυτούς είναι Σύροι, Αφγανοί και Αιγύπτιοι και διαμαρτύρονται, όπως υποστηρίζουν, ότι τους επιβλήθηκαν αυστηρές ποινές.

Σημειώνεται ότι στην απεργία πείνας δεν συμμετέχουν οι Τούρκοι καταδικασμένοι για διακίνηση.

 

 

πρώτη μου αντίδραση => άστε τους να ψωφίσουνε οι κερατάδες

δεύτερη μου αντίδραση => άστε τους να ψωφίσουνε οι κερατάδες

τρίτη μου αντίδραση => άστε τους να ψωφίσουνε οι κερατάδες

 

και πάει λέγοντας

 

έχουν και αναίδεια οι πούστηδες. Αν δεν τους αρέσει να μην κάνανε αυτό που κάνανε.Ας την πληρώσουν την νύφη τώρα

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Guest HappyAsHellas

The only viable solution for Greece and the EU was to follow what Varoufakis was saying. I'm not laying blame at any single country or whatever - everyone screwed up big time.  A junkie gets fined in court and ordered to pay a fine in instalments. He says he can't afford it so they drop the amount he pays every month over a longer period. Essentially this is what Varoufakis was saying - we will pay it back, but give us something we can work with. Out of Europe's combined GDP we're talking about 1 or 2%. So why didn't Europe listen or act? I think that we are seeing the real European future at work here - sending out clear messages to political parties in other southern European countries - don't mess with us or we will screw you up big time. Greece is being hung out to dry and whilst I have no sympathies whatsoever about the people with undeserved pensions getting a hit, the sad reality is that there are thousands upon thousands of Greek pensioners who paid their IKA for the required 40 years and are now being hammered. There is no solution as it stands - but the creditors keep on going with the banks mantra - pretend and extend - it will never work. Oh, and capitalism died many years ago. It was a system that relied on free markets whereas nowadays these same markets are regulated and therefore not free. I view it today as living in a kleptocracy, not just here, but every western nation following the same financial crap that will ultimately fail yet again - bubble, bust, repeat ad infinitum, or should that be ad nauseum?

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Guest eyoismos

 

whilst I have no sympathies whatsoever about the people with undeserved pensions getting a hit, the sad reality is that there are thousands upon thousands of Greek pensioners who paid their IKA for the required 40 years and are now being hammered.

 

AMEN to that, and let me add a lot more that "thousands upon thousands"

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The only viable solution for Greece and the EU was to follow what Varoufakis was saying. I'm not laying blame at any single country or whatever - everyone screwed up big time.  A junkie gets fined in court and ordered to pay a fine in instalments. He says he can't afford it so they drop the amount he pays every month over a longer period. Essentially this is what Varoufakis was saying - we will pay it back, but give us something we can work with. Out of Europe's combined GDP we're talking about 1 or 2%. So why didn't Europe listen or act? I think that we are seeing the real European future at work here - sending out clear messages to political parties in other southern European countries - don't mess with us or we will screw you up big time. Greece is being hung out to dry and whilst I have no sympathies whatsoever about the people with undeserved pensions getting a hit, the sad reality is that there are thousands upon thousands of Greek pensioners who paid their IKA for the required 40 years and are now being hammered. There is no solution as it stands - but the creditors keep on going with the banks mantra - pretend and extend - it will never work. Oh, and capitalism died many years ago. It was a system that relied on free markets whereas nowadays these same markets are regulated and therefore not free. I view it today as living in a kleptocracy, not just here, but every western nation following the same financial crap that will ultimately fail yet again - bubble, bust, repeat ad infinitum, or should that be ad nauseum?

 Bullshit.

Varoufakis and his boss Alexi should be put on trial. It was his "Negotiation" and his tactical play that led to the closure of the Greek Banks and made the 3rd recapitalization necessery. In the process Greek Banking stock lost over 90% of its market value. That again had an effect on Greek Pension fonds that had invested in Greek banking stock. All things considered Greek institutional and private investors lost somewhere between 50 to 70 billion. In the aftermath  new stock was issued and sold for pennies to foreign investors. Thereby the Greek banks were handed over to internation "Vulture Capitalists" and the assets Greek Banks had aquired in the Balkans over the last two decades were liquidated for pennies on the dollar.

 

That's the result of Varoufakis and now you are saying that the EU has to follow "The Varoufakis Plan" to be saved? You must be out of your mind. The actions of this clown were outright criminal and the only reason why he is not on trial while Alexi is in power is that he threatened to spill the beans on Tsipras. Who at the end is the main culprit.

 

As far as the many pensioneers who paid into the system for decades being screwed, they are being screwed by Alexi. It was the Greek Governments decision to cut pensions equaly, from people who earned them and from people who didn't. If he had cut pensions to those who didn't pay into the system he wouldn't have to cut them for those who did indeed pay. Tsipras though opted for creating a singular pension system which treats everyone the earners and the cheaters the same. This is an outrageous injustice to the Greeks who turned 50 recently and are asked to pay the spiked contributions into the system until they turn 67 while there are hundreds of thousands of 50 somethings who paid next to nothing and already receive pensions for years. And when the time comes for todays payers to retire they will receive shit

 

Greece, once again, rewards the cheaters and robs the meritorius. It is this mentality that led to the colapse of the economy in Greece. And if you were to apply the rule that those who earn have to provide for those who cheat in Europe as a whole there want be anybody left willing to earn. And yet there are people who claim Varoufakis Greek "κουτοπονηριά" will save Europe.

 

Laughable.

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Guest HappyAsHellas

 Bullshit.

Varoufakis and his boss Alexi should be put on trial. It was his "Negotiation" and his tactical play that led to the closure of the Greek Banks +

 

 

 

 

Taken from the Guardian last July

 

Yiannis Varoufakis

"In my first week as minister for finance I was visited by Jeroen Dijsselbloem, president of the Eurogroup (the eurozone finance ministers), who put a stark choice to me: accept the bailout’s “logic” and drop any demands for debt restructuring or your loan agreement will “crash” – the unsaid repercussion being that Greece’s banks would be boarded up.

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you, and Yannis, are just too stupid to understand a basic fact: You can not spend more than you make.

Of course Dijsselbloem put Yannis under an ultimatum. What should he have done?

Say your debt is forgiven Yani and here is the first chunck of your followup cash?

And by the way it was Yanis who borded up the banks, and he called his girlfriend right after that to say

"I've closed the banks love". Or at least that's what super stud Yanis stated in interviews.

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Guest eyoismos

and of course you forgot to also mention the stupidity of Dijsselbloem and his cronies for not realizing that you cannot lend more money than it can be viably be payed back

 

yeah, sure, V can be easily characterized as a part gambler with "game theory" being his justification, and sure, what he chirps about could, now, be interpreted as excuses for his failures, etc etc, but ultimately he is just another economic theorist, aka economist, aka "one more full of shit" specialist , and no different from all of the rest, and i mean ALL of the rest. why? because like all these economic specialists, they conveniently forget the most important of factors in their economic models. the "human" factor.

 

and one of this human factors .... its called greed. and guess what category , hiding behind the curtain of hypocrisy (and calling it legitimacy), Dijsselbloem and his cronies are? take a wild guess

 

then we have those that like to interpret "debt restructuring" as "debt forgiven"

 

 

Debt restructuring is a process that allows a private or public company, or a sovereign entity facing cash flow problems and financial distress to reduce and renegotiate its delinquent debts in order to improve or restore liquidity so that it can continue its operations.

 

ie. haircuts are NOT the only way to restructure

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May 2010, first restructuring. Payment schedule was extended, interest rates were cut, Greece received 110 Bil Bailout.

February 2012 second bailout loan of 130 bil, private bond holders take a 53 % haircut.

December 2012 new round of debt relief measures, 8.2 bil IMF garanties

 

And now we are negotiating the 4rd round. Obviously, the 3 previous rounds did not work. So what is the solution?

End austerity and start spending more? And where is this money supposed to come from? From the International "Cronies" as you call them?

 

And how much should they give us? Another 110? or maybe 130? or 200? And this will work this time around while it dient work in 2011 and 2012? When are we gonna stop fantasizing and admit that the source of the problem is in Greece and the solution can only come from changing Greek attitudes.

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yeah, sure, V can be easily characterized as a part gambler with "game theory" being his justification...

 

Varoufakis should be characterized as a criminal. He single-handedly completely destroyed the already failing Greek banking system and destroyed any chance of recovery for the Greek economy. Instead of spending the rest of his life in jail for his criminal activities and neglect he's instead idolized by many Greeks and Europeans to this day (despite all he's done!) and he's off to "save" Europe now with the creation of a European political party. The guy is a joke, but I can't possibly put all the blame on him. It's the morons who idolize him that I blame the most. We're a nation who loves idolizing narcissists like Varoufakis.

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Guest HappyAsHellas

Varoufakis knew that the only way to stimulate growth in the economy was through investment. Who the hell is going to invest in Greece, given the financial constraints they are under? I'm not talking about the fire sale that have certain people rubbing their hands together thinking about the untold millions they will make. Look at Britain for christ's sake - a government without one solitary idea of how to turn round an economy and they were saved by a legal outcome of staggering proportions - the banks had sold everyone insurance to cover loans without telling them about it. This went on for over a decade and the banks had to pay to date, over 11 billion pounds back to the guy in the street. They go out and buy things and all of a sudden our government claim they are in fact financial guru's. The more people with money, the more money circulates in the system. As long as Greece has the high unemployment and lack of investment they will remain a basket case. Quite how you can lay this at the feet of Varoufakis I find staggering.

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Guest eyoismos

Varoufakis should be characterized as a criminal. He single-handedly completely destroyed the already failing Greek banking system and destroyed any chance of recovery for the Greek economy. Instead of spending the rest of his life in jail for his criminal activities and neglect he's instead idolized by many Greeks and Europeans to this day (despite all he's done!) and he's off to "save" Europe now with the creation of a European political party. The guy is a joke, but I can't possibly put all the blame on him. It's the morons who idolize him that I blame the most. We're a nation who loves idolizing narcissists like Varoufakis.

 

reality check

 

crapping out and condemning somebody as a criminal because he "might" have destroyed the last remanence of a wall of a building, when the rest of the building has pretty much been already destroyed . ? seriously? kinda harsh if one doesnt ALSO corporate the rest the the clowns before him in the same bucket. IF not, its just pointing randomly at a convenient scapegoat

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Guest eyoismos

 

"Η Ευρώπη μπορεί να μην επέδειξε την αλληλεγγύη που έπρεπε αλλά η Λέσβος έδειξε το καλό πρόσωπο της Ευρώπης" σημείωσε το μεσημέρι ο νέος Ύπατος Αρμοστής του ΟΗΕ για τους Πρόσφυγες, Φιλίπο Γκράντι, επισκεπτόμενος την "καρδιά" του προσφυγικού προβλήματος τη Λέσβο. όπως χαρακτηριστικά είπε.

Αμέσως μετά την άφιξή του, ο κ. Γκράντι, κατευθύνθηκε στο λιμάνι της Μυτιλήνης, όπου εκείνη την ώρα αποβιβάζονταν από σκάφη της Ελληνικής Ακτοφυλακής και της Frontex περισσότεροι από 500 πρόσφυγες και μετανάστες. Ήρθε πρόσωπο με πρόσωπο με το πραγματικό πρόβλημα που είναι οι άνθρωποι, «παιδιά, γυναίκες, ηλικιωμένοι, οικογένειες, αυτό που προσδιορίζει το ότι έχουμε να κάνουμε με πρόσφυγες. Και πρόσφυγες είναι κάποιοι, ανεξαρτήτως εθνικότητας» είπε χαρακτηριστικά. 

 

Ο κ. Γκράντι συνομίλησε με πολλούς από τους πρόσφυγες και άκουσε τις τραγικές ιστορίες τους σχετικά με τους διακινητές.

Ένας Σύρος πρόσφυγας, του είπε ότι επιβιβάστηκε στην πλαστική βάρκα με το πιστόλι στον κρόταφο, ενώ άλλοι του μίλησαν για τη μετακίνησή τους ως τα παράλια και τις πραγματικά άσχημες συνθήκες που έζησαν αυτοί και οι οικογένειες τους. Κι ενώ η θάλασσα ανάμεσα στη Μυτιλήνη και την Τουρκία ήταν γεμάτη με βάρκες, όταν το πλωτό σκάφος του Λιμενικού Σώματος 080 απέπλευσε από το λιμάνι της Μυτιλήνης προκειμένου ο Ύπατος Αρμοστής να διαπιστώσει ιδίοις όμμασι το ότι οι Ελληνικές αρχές δεν μπορούν να κάνουν τίποτα άλλο από το να διασώσουν αυτούς τους ανθρώπους που βρίσκουν να κινδυνεύουν μέσα στη θάλασσα, ξαφνικά η θάλασσα άδειασε. Οι βάρκες με τους πρόσφυγες εξαφανιστήκαν σε μια προσπάθεια να μην καταγραφεί στη μνήμη, τόσο του ίδιου όσο και όσων τον συνόδευαν, το συντελούμενο έγκλημα.

 

Το γεγονός εντυπωσίασε τους πάντες, ενώ ο αναπληρωτής υπουργός μεταναστευτικής πολιτικής Γιάννης Μουζάλας που συνόδευε τον κ. Γκράντι μίλησε για «ένα αλλιώτικο παιχνίδι της γάτας με το ποντίκι που παίζουν οι Τούρκοι σε βάρος της ανθρωπότητας». Ακολούθησαν επισκέψεις στον καταυλισμό προσφύγων στον Καρά Τεπέ και έπειτα στο χοτ σποτ της Μόριας, όπου ο κ. Γκράντι είχε την ευκαιρία να ενημερωθεί πλήρως για την ακολουθούμενη διαδικασία καταγραφής και πιστοποίησης μεταναστών και προσφύγων και την έκδοση των απαραίτητων δικαιολογητικών σύμφωνα με την ευρωπαϊκή νομοθεσία, από μικτά συνεργεία Ελλήνων και άλλων Ευρωπαίων αστυνομικών. Επίσης, συνομίλησε με εκατοντάδες πρόσφυγες που περίμεναν την καταγραφή τους. Για μια ακόμα φορά εντυπωσιάστηκε από τον πολύ μεγάλο αριθμό γυναικών και παιδιών - γεγονός που, όπως είπε, δείχνει τον έντονα προσφυγικό χαρακτήρα των μετακινούμενων μαζών. 

 

Σε συνέντευξη του αργά το μεσημέρι, ο ύπατος αρμοστής του ΟΗΕ για τους πρόσφυγες, παρατήρησε πως «η τοπική κοινότητα έχει υποστεί τεράστιες συνέπειες λόγω της οικονομικής κρίσης και παρά αυτό, συνεχίζει να βοηθά τους πρόσφυγες που καταφθάνουν. «Δηλώνω ως ύπατος αρμοστής την αμέριστη στήριξή μου και συμπαράστασή μου για αυτό που κάνετε εδώ για τους πρόσφυγες» είπε.

 

Ο κ. Γκράντι εξέφρασε επίσης την ανησυχία του, «γιατί βλέπουμε χώρες όπως τα Σκόπια να κλείνουν τα σύνορά τους χωρίς να υπάρχει η δυνατότητα νόμιμης μετακίνησης για τους πρόσφυγες. Το πρόγραμμα της επανεγκατάσταση που συμφωνήθηκε μεταξύ των χωρών της Ευρωπαϊκής Ένωσης δεν έχει προχωρήσει. Έχουμε επανειλημμένως τονίσει στα κράτη-μέλη και σε άλλα κράτη της Ευρώπης, πως θα πρέπει να μετέχουν σε αυτά τα προγράμματα μετεγκατάστασης ώστε να δέχονται με νόμιμο τρόπο πρόσφυγες και να μην τους αφήνουν στο έλεος των διακινητών. Και μιλώ για μετεγκατάσταση και από το Λίβανο, την Τουρκία, την Ιορδανία και άλλες χώρες» κατέληξε. 

 

Ο Ύπατος Αρμοστής του ΟΗΕ για τους πρόσφυγες σε δηλώσεις του επίσης, άφησε αιχμές για τη στάση της Ευρώπης στο προσφυγικό ζήτημα και άσκησε έντονη κριτική για τη στάση των ευρωπαϊκών χωρών, οι οποίες κλείνουν τα σύνορά τους στους πρόσφυγες και κωλυσιεργούν κατά τη διαδικασία της μετεγκατάστασης για την οποία έχουν δεσμευτεί. Ο Ύπατος Αρμοστής τόνισε πως η Ελλάδα δέχεται το μεγαλύτερο βάρος της προσφυγικής κρίσης και οι υπόλοιπες χώρες της Ευρώπης θα έπρεπε να δείξουν αλληλεγγύη απέναντί της. Τέλος η πρόταση του ΟΗΕ στην ερχόμενη Διάσκεψη των ηγετών όλου του κόσμου που θα γίνει τον ερχόμενο Μάρτιο, θα είναι να δεχτούν όλες οι χώρες του κόσμου πρόσφυγες από τη Συρία, μιας και το ζήτημα αφορά ολόκληρο τον πλανήτη. 

 

Ο Ύπατος Αρμοστής του ΟΗΕ για τους πρόσφυγες κατά την επίσκεψή του στη Λέσβο συναντήθηκε με την Περιφερειάρχη Βορείου Αιγαίου Χριστιάνα Καλογήρου και το δήμαρχο Λέσβου Σπύρο Γαληνό. Επίσης είχε συνάντηση με εκπροσώπους μη κυβερνητικών οργανώσεων και εθελοντικών ομάδων, συνάντηση που πραγματοποιήθηκε στην γενική γραμματεία Αιγαίου και Νησιωτικής Πολιτικής.

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Guest eyoismos

 

Έντονη ενόχληση εκφράζει πλέον η Αθήνα για την άτεγκτη στάση που εμφανίζεται να τηρεί η Τουρκία στο πλαίσιο της Στρατιωτικής Επιτροπής του ΝΑΤΟ όπου συζητείται η συμμαχική επιχείρηση για τη διαχείριση των προσφυγικών ροών στο Αιγαίο.

 

Ουσιαστικά, η επιχείρηση κινδυνεύει να τιναχθεί στον αέρα από την επιμονή της Άγκυρας να γκριζάρει το Αιγαίο, μία στάση που  έχει, σύμφωνες με ανώτερες πηγές του υπουργείου Εθνικής Άμυνας, ενοχλήσει σφόδρα τόσο τη Γερμανία όσο και τις Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες.

 

Το ζήτημα ήγειρε ο Πάνος Καμμένος στη συνάντηση που είχε με τον Διοικητή του Έκτου Στόλου σήμερα στην Αθήνα. Παράλληλα, ο κ. Καμμένος έχει στείλει επιστολή στον Γενικό Γραμματέα του ΝΑΤΟ Γενς Στόλτεμπεργκ στην οποία του επισημαίνει ότι η διαδικασία έχει καθυστερήσει και πρέπει να βρεθεί λύση μέχρι αύριο 24 Φεβρουαρίου διότι μόνο τις τελευταίες πέντε ημέρες έχουν μπει στη χώρα 13.000 άνθρωποι. Ο κ. Καμμένος θα μιλήσει τηλεφωνικά με τον κ. Στόλτεμπεργκ το απόγευμα της Τρίτης αλλά και με τη γερμανίδα ομόλογό του Ούρσουλα φον Λέγεν.

 

Σύμφωνα με πληροφορίες, ο στρατιωτικός εκπρόσωπος της Τουρκίας είπε ούτε λίγο ούτε πολύ, παρουσία των ομολόγων του από Ελλάδα και Γερμανία αλλά και του SACEUR, ότι δεν μπορεί να εφαρμόσει τις... «βλακείες» των πολιτικών. Ερωτηθείς σχετικά, ο κ. Καμμένος επιβεβαίωσε τη στάση του τούρκου στρατιωτικού.

 

Πηγές από το Πεντάγωνο επιβεβαίωσαν το ρεπορτάζ του «Βήματος» της περασμένης Κυριακής ότι η Άγκυρα θέλει τα νατοικά πλοία να επιχειρούν σε διεθνή ύδατα δυτικά των ελληνικών νησιών περί τον 25ο μεσημβρινό. Και επιπλέον ότι η Άγκυρα έχει καταθέσει αναλυτικό έγγραφο με τις αιτιάσεις/διεκδικήσεις της που περιήλθε εις γνώση της ελληνικής πλευράς.

 

Το αποτέλεσμα ήταν οι Τούρκοι να διακόψουν τη σιωπηρή διαδικασία για την έγκριση της επιχείρησης. Σημειώνεται ότι αυτή θα ονομαστεί activity στο πλαίσιο της SNMG 2 και όχι operation ή mission.

 

Οι Τούρκοι αντιδρούν επίσης στο ζήτημα της επιστροφής μεταναστών που θα εντοπίζονται στα χωρικά τους ύδατα. Η κυρία Φον Λέγεν παρενέβη προς την Άγκυρα ώστε να επιστρέφουν εκεί όλοι όσοι εντοπίζονται εκτός από εκείνους που έχουν καταγραφεί σε ελληνικό έδαφος.

 

Το επόμενο στάδιο είναι η συζήτηση σε επίπεδο Μονίμων Αντιπροσώπων. Σύμφωνα με μία γραμμή πληροφόρησης, δεν θα έπρεπε να αποκλειστεί και έκτακτη συνάντηση των υπουργών Άμυνας.

 

Παράλληλα, στρατιωτικές πηγές έλεγαν ότι εξετάζεται και η δημιουργία νέων, μικρότερων κέντρων μετεγκατάστασης (πέραν Σχιστού και Διαβατών). Εξετάζονται δύο τοποθεσίες σε Βόλο και Ήπειρο. Μάλιστα υπάρχει η ιδέα να διαχωριστούν οι πρόσφυγες ανά εθνικότητα ώστε να περιοριστούν οι εντάσεις.

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:ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:  :ph34r:

 

It's amazing how ignorant people are ready to smear a modern day hero, such as Mr. Varoufakis. He single-handedly stood up to the "money centers"  and the Fascists running Europe these days. He was Leonidas without his "300", that is the rest of the downtrodden Europeans like Spain, Portugal, Ireland and even Italy. They chickened out and, like cowards, left him to "hang and dry".

 

IMF and UCB, if not the rest of the London and NY money centers, made Greece their grand experiment. They wanted to see how much the populous will tolerate before they blow up the whole system. And as we see the experiment is still on, and the Greeks try to resist without any support.

 

A good source for accurate information is a site by professor Richard D. Wolff, a professor of economics in the CUNY system, which is City University of New York. He tackles  many of today's economic ills, and has, in multiple occasions, commented on the Greek/Varoufakis issue. All who care to know the facts should look in his archives to find out the truth. He is at  http://www.rdwolff.com/

 

I hope this will open the eyes of those who are spoon-fed the official IMF/German/UCB propaganda and don't care to look for the facts!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

PS.  Professor Wolff would enlighten all in many other economic issues that effect us on our daily lives. Feel free to follow him for more than just the "Greek problem" 

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