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Nothing wrong in Greece?

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It amazes me to what extend Greeks deny the wrongs in their country. It is perhaps this eagerness to defend the undefensible that makes true reforms in Greece impossible. Do you deny the Greek Disease? If not lets attempt an objective diagnosis and propose some treatment options.

 

So I ask, in a constructive way, do you see anything wrong in Greece? What would that be? And more importantly what has to be done, in your opinion, to mend it?

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This is a very open ended question. Do I see anything wrong in Greece? Sure, lots of things. But the same way, I see many things wrong in Canada too, and I'm sure each and every country has its own list of things that are not done right.

 

At the end of the day, speaking for myself, I only visit Greece as a tourist over the past 20 years. I own nothing in Greece and I don't have to deal with government agencies etc. So from my point of view, that of a tourist, Greece is very close to perfect. The people are great, the weather is amazing, the land is wonderful, the country is safe, so I don't really have much to complain about.

 

Sure, when I spend time in Athens I'd wish that the city streets were cleaner, there was less graphitti etc. but other than that spending a month in Greece once a year is a treat for me and my family.

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Guest eyoismos

yet another thinly disguised attempt at finding ways of attacking greece and its people by a weasel
and history on this forums gives multiple reason for a basis for this allegation

 

the very words "greek disease" stinks to high heaven of predisposition of "guilty until proven innocent" and compatriot of "greeks are lazy and thieves" and all the rest of the other variants

 

so the motivation for this post is very far  from constructive, and smell only of intent of the wrong persuasion, and tainted

 

so excuse me if i view this topic with suspicious eyes... and as a riddle with a highly prejudiced disposition

 

but i will give this,

 

 

«Ξέρω πάρα πολύ καλά ότι οι Ελληνες της διασποράς και οι ομογενείς μας στις ΗΠΑ έχουν μεγαλύτερη έγνοια για την πατρίδα και τα τεκταινόμενα, απ’ ότι κι εμείς που μένουμε στην Ελλάδα»

A Τσίπρας

 

για να δούμε τι σμέρνα θα πιάσουμε απ΄ αυτό

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admin:

 

At the end of the day, speaking for myself, I only visit Greece as a tourist over the past 20 years. I own nothing in Greece and I don't have to deal with government agencies etc. So from my point of view, that of a tourist, Greece is very close to perfect. The people are great, the weather is amazing, the land is wonderful, the country is safe, so I don't really have much to complain about.

Near Perfect?

So there is nothing that has to change in Greece from your "Tourist" point of view?

I guess it depends on what sort of Tourist you are. You could be the kind of resort tourist that spends a week at a Red Sea resort in Egypt and walks away with the impression that Egypt is "Near Perfect" or you could be the Tourist that walks off to mingle with the People and ends up being bombed or being featured in a beheading video. Granted. Things aren't like that in Greece but If you go mingle you'll see the desolate situation of the Greek state and society.

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eyo:

 

so the motivation for this post is very far from constructive, and smell only of intent of the wrong persuasion

Hear you go again going on abaout my intentions instead of looking at facts. My intentions don't matter, I ask about the things you see wrong with Greece. The most striking thing sign of Greek pathology is demonstrated by your attitude which is so characteristic for Greeks. Questioning the motives of everyone who remarks on the ills of the country without ever looking at themselves.

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Guest eyoismos

just the other day i installed an interesting little app on my wife's phone, that allows one to see the stars and moon and whatnot in the sky, depending on where you point the phone towards

 

so that night, i found the moon on the app, and then i looked at the actual moon, and it was like 30-40 degrees out

so i thought  ... ok ... now at least i have an idea how to compensate and observe accordingly

 

with you its like putting on a blindfold, being chucked into the vortex of a tornado, and when take out, be asked to play darts with a dartboard and be expected to hit bull eye ...still blinded and disorientated

 

THAT is what your alleged facts, pathology and all the rest of the crap you come up with,  comes down to

 

THAT is why one is forced to make questions and suspect motivations. it has fuckall to do with greece or being greek, or american, or german  or from outer mongolia or even mars

 

its a question of experiencing people and life in general ... and trying to deal with them accordingly

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Guest eyoismos

having said that ... i will give a little bit of "incentive" to the topic in question, for the normal thinking people who might be interested in participating

 

and i chose this one JUST so one cant be accused of being biased, in your case extremely biased, all the while while most greeks in greece alone would AND DO fully agree with ...and i must add, been bitching about it for years and years and years .... and that is just the greeks in greece - forget about the diaspora, and often why they ended there in the first place

 

Greek tragedy for education opportunities

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Guest eyoismos

furthermore, considering your past "incredible flabbergasting performances" concerning greece, i would challenge you to come up with what is good or even great with greece

 

and i am not talking about piss-willy limp-handed "impressions" that admin often comes up with to ease the tension on this website

 

otherwise you are simply just another victim who has been seriously caught up with greek- hating disease

 

oh wait ... could i also be a victim of typecasting and stereotyping mentality

oh wait again ... i just remembered ... you grew up in germany ..considering germany as a whole and its people ..... well ,.... i need not say more  :P

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just the other day i installed an interesting little app on my wife's phone, that allows one to see the stars and moon and whatnot in the sky, depending on where you point the phone towards

 

so that night, i found the moon on the app, and then i looked at the actual moon, and it was like 30-40 degrees out

so i thought  ... ok ... now at least i have an idea how to compensate and observe accordingly

 

with you its like putting on a blindfold, being chucked into the vortex of a tornado, and when take out, be asked to play darts with a dartboard and be expected to hit bull eye ...still blinded and disorientated

 

THAT is what your alleged facts, pathology and all the rest of the crap you come up with,  comes down to

 

THAT is why one is forced to make questions and suspect motivations. it has fuckall to do with greece or being greek, or american, or german  or from outer mongolia or even mars

 

its a question of experiencing people and life in general

Suppose you are walking on train Tracks. Somebody walks by and shouts out to you "Train is coming up behind you. Move out of the way". And in stead of looking behind you and moving out of the way you just stand in place and ponder the ulterior motives of the one shouting out to you. That's the Greek way I suppose.

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Guest eyoismos

that bit about "That's the Greek way I suppose" is proof positive that you dont have a bee under your bonnet, but a whole swarm of killer bees up your ass , when it come to greece and greeks

 

and considering the time between posting an article from the BBC, and your reactionary and provocative answer, just proves my point .... AGAIN

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eyo:

 

furthermore, considering your past "incredible flabbergasting performances" concerning greece, i would challenge you to come up with what is good or even great with greece

I haven't seen much good in Greece. That said, things could be worse. There isn't much in terms of serious crime. Downtown Athens or Thessaloniki are in fact much safer than downtown Houston. The atmosphere in Greece is surprisingly calm all things considered.

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Guest eyoismos

I haven't seen much good in Greece. That said, things could be worse. There isn't much in terms of serious crime. Downtown Athens or Thessaloniki are in fact much safer than downtown Houston. The atmosphere in Greece is surprisingly calm all things considered.

wow! so you CAN see some random positive thing about greece. incredible, but i must say glumly satisfying. there is still an inkling of hope for you

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Near Perfect?

So there is nothing that has to change in Greece from your "Tourist" point of view?

I guess it depends on what sort of Tourist you are. You could be the kind of resort tourist that spends a week at a Red Sea resort in Egypt and walks away with the impression that Egypt is "Near Perfect" or you could be the Tourist that walks off to mingle with the People and ends up being bombed or being featured in a beheading video. Granted. Things aren't like that in Greece but If you go mingle you'll see the desolate situation of the Greek state and society.

 

I'm the kind of tourist who does both. I spend some time at the resorts where life is great and everything is perfect. I also spend time with friends and family in Pireas and live the life of a local, where things are not perfect yet they're not as bad as you make it sound to be.

 

Sure, Greeks don't go out as much as they used to when the economy was in better shape, or they don't go to month-long vacations any more, but so what? Life in Greece, for me as a tourist, is still as idyllic as it has always been. People are great, the weather is awesome, food/drinks are amazing and on top of this it's safe to walk around without any fear any time of the day, no matter if you are on a busy touristy island or in downtown Pireas or Athens.

 

Do this anywhere in the US if you dare, or even anywhere in Mexico, Caribbean etc. Heck, even in Canada you don't feel quite safe in most large cities when it gets dark.

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Guest PatrickT

I visited greece two times. One was at my job and athens and other was for holiday when our cruise ship stopped at Katakolon.

 

Athens was dirty and pathetic and i was glad when i could go back home. Even the akropolis was nothing special at all. Rome is far more impressive.

 

Katakolon and Olympia were nice but evrything was very small. I was much more impressed from egypt for example. But our tourguide was ok. 

 

He was a teacher if i remember right who knew history well and becaue he knows german he did lead our group. 

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If you think that the Acropolis (and ancient Greek architecture in general) is nothing impressive then you probably have a different point of view as compared to most of your compatriots as looking at German architecture from Reichstag to I don't know what else, most of it is directly influenced by the ancient Greek architecture.

 

In any case, seems that you're more impressed by big things. Good for you.

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Guest PatrickT

If you think that the Acropolis (and ancient Greek architecture in general) is nothing impressive then you probably have a different point of view as compared to most of your compatriots as looking at German architecture from Reichstag to I don't know what else, most of it is directly influenced by the ancient Greek architecture.

 

In any case, seems that you're more impressed by big things. Good for you.

The reichstag is gigantic compared to tze akropolis. both share similar style but the akropolis is small and i was not i,pressed at all. I visited Karnak in egypt and that was impressive.

 

olympia was nice but only for the landscapes. The ruins were small and the olympic stadion basicly a joke. Our school sports yard is bigger than that. I was far more impressed by rome and pompeii. Ephesos in turkey was impressive too and we also stopped in istanbul which looks far better than athens.

 

well i had not much contact with greeks when i worked those two weeks in athens. only one was our dolmetscher

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Guest eyoismos

the Reichstag building, impressive as it it,  was built in 1894. the acropolis and all the rest where built 2000+ years, and then some, before that, and the relative technology between those times its like comparing chalk and cheese

 

the whole concept of comparison is a no brainer

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Guest PatrickT

the Reichstag building, impressive as it it,  was built in 1894. the acropolis and all the rest where built 2000+ years, and then some, before that, and the relative technology between those times its like comparing chalk and cheese

 

the whole concept of comparison is a no brainer

Karnak in egypt was build 1000 years before the acropolis and is magnitudes greater and more impressive than anything greece has to offer. As i said, not worth the money. Athens is basicly a shithole. Most is dirty and rotten and the only thing they have is the acropolis. Now is the acropolis worth to waste time in athens? certainly not.

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Guest FriendofGreece

I used to visit Greece a long time ago, and I found it to be very beautiful. It seemed poor in some areas but the people were always hospitable. Greece to me was a paradise, and I dream of going back there to visit.

 

I would be interested to know the impact that the illegal migrants have made in Greece. Has it become less safe, where do those migrants stay, etc.? I am amazed at how the people on the islands could even cope with such huge numbers of migrants coming in.

 

Do you think that the idea of putting migrant hotspots in Greece is good?

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Guest eyoismos

Karnak if i am not mistaken is a result of 30+ pharaohs with very few instances of anything unique from that region, acropolis was a result of Pericles so to speak, and 1000 years difference in technology and knowhow ... and then their is the palace of the minoan era , Knossos being considered Europe's oldest city

 

again .... the whole concept of comparison is a no brainer

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Guest eyoismos

I used to visit Greece a long time ago, and I found it to be very beautiful. It seemed poor in some areas but the people were always hospitable. Greece to me was a paradise, and I dream of going back there to visit.

 

I would be interested to know the impact that the illegal migrants have made in Greece. Has it become less safe, where do those migrants stay, etc.? I am amazed at how the people on the islands could even cope with such huge numbers of migrants coming in.

 

Do you think that the idea of putting migrant hotspots in Greece is good?

 

welcome FriendofGreece to hellenism

 

so from which part of the world are you? and how come you havent visited for so long? how about making your dream a reality

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I visited greece two times. One was at my job and athens and other was for holiday when our cruise ship stopped at Katakolon.

 

Athens was dirty and pathetic and i was glad when i could go back home. Even the akropolis was nothing special at all. Rome is far more impressive.

 

Katakolon and Olympia were nice but evrything was very small. I was much more impressed from egypt for example. But our tourguide was ok. 

 

He was a teacher if i remember right who knew history well and becaue he knows german he did lead our group.

Yes Patrick, contemporary Greece is dirty and chaotic but if you comparing the artifacts of Hellenic Culture with the monstrosities of civilized yet uncultured Egypt I'm afraid you are not getting the point. The most impressive remains of Egyptian civilization are after all nothing more than tombs. Gigantic tombs build to satisfy the vanity of ONE man. Hellenic culture on the other hand is a celebration of life. A celebration of the here and now and that makes it different. No. It makes it THE ONLY culture of antiquity. Yes the Coloseum may be more impressive than the theaters of ancient Hellas but it was nothing more that a stage for brutisch games performed in front of a brutish audience. Athens on the other hand produced Sophocles, Aeschylus and Euripides.

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I used to visit Greece a long time ago, and I found it to be very beautiful. It seemed poor in some areas but the people were always hospitable. Greece to me was a paradise, and I dream of going back there to visit.

 

I would be interested to know the impact that the illegal migrants have made in Greece. Has it become less safe, where do those migrants stay, etc.? I am amazed at how the people on the islands could even cope with such huge numbers of migrants coming in.

 

Do you think that the idea of putting migrant hotspots in Greece is good?

 

Welcome to Hellenism.Net

 

How many years ago did you visit Greece?

Greece went through some radical changes in the past 20 years or so. Not always to the better, but that's up to anyone's interpretation. In its core Greece remains the same. Part European part middle eastern. A crossroad of civilizations, as it's always been, with all the good and bad things that come with this.

 

In terms of what's happening with the migrants from Syria (and other places...) over the past couple of years, the situation has been getting worse lately, mainly for the islands by the coast of Turkey. Kos and Lesvos are overwhelmed with thousands of migrants and can barely cope. I read that most of those migrants have now been moved to Athens and mainland Greece, but again this doesn't solve the problem. Greece cannot help those poor souls, not in the numbers they're arriving.

 

These people want to move to the richer northern European countries anyway. Holding them "hostage" in Greece only makes the situation more difficult and more frustrating for them.

 

To your question about safety, I don't think those migrants pose any threat to anyone. They're not there to hurt people or create trouble. They've been through hell trying to get out of their war torn countries so the last thing they want is more trouble. What they want is to get their documents processed as soon as possible so that they can move on to countries which can provide them with work and support to start a new life. Unfortunately Greece cannot offer this to them at this point.

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Guest PatrickT

Karnak if i am not mistaken is a result of 30+ pharaohs with very few instances of anything unique from that region, acropolis was a result of Pericles so to speak, and 1000 years difference in technology and knowhow ... and then their is the palace of the minoan era , Knossos being considered Europe's oldest city

 

again .... the whole concept of comparison is a no brainer

 

Knossos looks pathetic as well. I´m not impressed by some ruins of dwarf buildings. Could have to do with size in general. We germans are tall and were giants compared to "greeks". I think the average greek back then would be the same hight as my bellybutton...

 

I noticed this when i walked into the stadium in olympia. It was crazy how small that arc at the entrance was.  

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Guest eyoismos

the bigger the arsehole, the bigger the need for a giant dildo to find satisfaction
 

The world's oldest known dildo is a siltstone 20-centimeter phallus from the Upper Palaeolithic period 30,000 years ago that was found in Hohle Fels Cave near Ulm, Germany

 

somehow it all makes perfect sense now, and understandable

 

positive proof that a remembrance of a neanderthal is still living in Harheim

 

seems like this guy also was into steroids and "look how magnificent i am" attitudes

 

neanderthal-man-germany-050610jpg-2dd1c4

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Guest FriendofGreece

Thank you for the welcome, Eyoismos and Admin!

 

I live in Canada. I went in Greece before it became a member of the EU, it was the real Greece for Greek people. Not sure if Greece is part Middle Eastern, the Greek people's mentality is quite different from Middle Eastern people. Yeah, did not have the chance to go back for various personal reasons, but would like to go back visit for sure when I can. It gives me comfort to hear that it is safe despite the big number of migrants. 

 

Not all the migrants come from war-torn areas. As for Syria, a Canadian-Syrian woman I know is going to Damascus for six weeks vacation, go figure.

 

I find it absolutely unfair that the EU countries expect Greece to protect the borders of the EU without significant help from them. There is nothing Greece can do but let those migrants go up north, as they have no intention to stay in Greece anyhow. Greece does not have the resources to feed and shelter them, it does not even have enough for its own people. 

 

Talking about other things, I used to want to visit Egypt too years ago to go see the pyramids. However, the son of one of my friend went there and said it was dirty and smelly, and said he would never go to Egypt again. Nowadays, I am no longer interested in Egyptian civilization because it seems to me to be dark, related to death, etc. On the other hand, I view the Greek civilization as an enlightened one that shines on humanity. I agree with Eyoimos, I myself also think that the Coliseum was a theatre to entertain the Roman masses with beasts killing humans, rather barbarian. 

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Guest eyoismos

yes, the Colosseum would be deemed barbaric IF one views it in modern terms, but go back to the times, and one would see it represented almighty Rome, the conqueror, the legislator, the architect, the inventor, and many more. viewing it in simplistic terms is a grave mistake and would not give it justice

 

i mean they, amongst many others, recreated sea battles .. no small feat if you ask me - just imagine what that would entail ... in those times

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Guest eyoismos

as for egypt, yes, maybe, it was dark ,and about death, perhaps, but it had to do with a lot more

 

in fact egypt was an incredible stepingstone in the march of civilization, in many spheres

 

for example we associate atlantis with plato, and yet he got the story from ancient egypt, where he visited

Much could also be said about technology and knowhow of the ancient greeks , but they in turn have many roots in egypt, where many of our "biggies" visited in their thirst for knowledge. mathematics is but one of them, that laid foundations to mutliple progressions within ancient greece. the romans then "received enlightenment" from them, in return ...and so on and so forth

 

one doesnt turn their nose so easily at one civilization or other, for they are in danger of falling into a sort of cardinal sin of ignorance is bliss

 

civilization is nothing but a progression of events

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Guest FriendofGreece

I think you are right, Eyoismos. Funny though, when you visit museums and look at Egyptian artifacts (mummies, sarcophagus, etc.), those aspects that you mention are not reflected. It is only by reading the ancient Greeks that we know about those things.

 

But the Coliseum, no, it is still barbarian because of its purpose. Even if we put ourselves in that period (show of Roman power, etc.), I am sure those poor gladiators/slaves must have thought it was quite barbarian.

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Guest eyoismos

hardly ... those very poor gladiators/slaves where active participants and with great enthusiasm to "excel" in order to obtain glory and recognition and all the rest  ... and of course desperate acts of staying alive - the purpose of the Colosseum was not so much about barbaric(as seen today) acts but a whole lot more, but also, lets not fool ourselves,  included what you talk about

 

again ... put yourself back in those times

 

i mean ...glory that was ancient greece .... it was riddles with slaves

 

and that is but an example

 

and museums generally show what the general public wants to see

 

which in a warped round about way.... well.... Colosseum comes to mind  .... and grid iron, among others, too :)

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