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I realize that austerity is hard. And i realize that we demanded much from the people of greece. I also realize that we often did not show some heart and acted very cold. Thats a point i must also critisize on myself.

 

You cant show what you dont have.

 

buckle up its going to be a bumpy ride, Greece is about to shake your economy

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Guest PatrickT

You cant show what you dont have.

 

buckle up its going to be a bumpy ride, Greece is about to shake your economy

 

 

No it doesn´t greece is irrelevant for germany. We have almost no economic contacts. The effect of grexit for germany and the € zone is non existant. Greece is only 2% of the GDP of the EU. 

 

As for your personal insult, i expect better from a moderator. Who made you mod? Mickey Mouse?

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Seeing this i don´t understand how tsipras can allow this to happen? A leader should always have the best for his people in mind. Seeing this makes me wonder what his goals are. He promised the people the banks would reopne today. They are not.

 

Yet he stands there and makes pompous speeches;

 

7ko53vda.jpg

 

While his people face total collapse now...

 

p9kpfn3l.jpg

 

pem9oq57.jpg

 

v6djlq6f.jpg

 

Someone here said i have no heart. And i know many think we germans are cold But thats not true. Seeing this does not just pass me. 

 

Tsipras uses this people as hostages for his criminal politics. Nobody denied that austerity is hard and a burden. But never ever something like this happened under the austerity program. What we see here is a european nation falling on 3rd world level. 

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Misfortune?

 

You should be proud

There is absolutely NOTHING to be proud of.

 

Greece may be a beautifull country but her people are 3 hairs away from being Baboons. Greedy, uncultured, lazy, arrogant, egotistic whiners. That's how Greeks are and I say that as someone who knows Greece and the Greeks inside and out.

 

Until yesterday they were gloating at the misfortunes of the Macedonians, the Bulgarians and the Romanians now they are asking for compasion and solidarity. Europe should hurry up and kick them Greeks to the curb. 

 

Manfred Weber did a great job outlining the cultural incompatibilities between Greeks and Europeans:

https://youtu.be/FqvnWNBv06c

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No it doesn´t greece is irrelevant for germany. We have almost no economic contacts. The effect of grexit for germany and the € zone is non existant. Greece is only 2% of the GDP of the EU.

 

As for your personal insult, i expect better from a moderator. Who made you mod? Mickey Mouse?

i agree with you, i expect better from myself too, i am kind of dissapointed in myself for holding back.

 

 

You come to a Greek forum and attack the greek people at these very difficult times, and you think we are just going to roll over and play nice? Respect is earned, so get to work

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I don´t care about your respect. What i care for is the stability of europe. 

 

That said, the new greek finiance minister Tsakalotos is even more a disgrace as his precedessor

 

Tsakalotos_Eurogruppe_gibt_uns_eine_neue

 

80642208-568x320-1-jul-08-2015-16-20-05-

 

tsakalotos-119~_v-videowebl.jpg

 

What is this? Did he sleep in his "suit"? He looks like the janitor. He represents his nation. Why does he wear such rotten clothes in the high house? Why? Because cheap symbolism. And thats what angers me. His people are in poverty and fall into chaos and he thinks it would help when he uses baseless symbolism but no efforts at all. 

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He is a fraud.

 

His father was a General and he went to school in Eton. Together with the spawns of the English Aristo and Global Cleptocracy. Now he plays the "Man of the People" part.

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Thats exactly that "mediterranean bullshit that the north simply starts to get disgusted about. 

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looks like Schäuble blocked evry compromise yesterday. Germany demands the grexit. There is simply no trust left. 

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Guest Elizabeth123

γεια σας από την Ελλάδα! (γράφω στα ελληνικά, γιατί είδα και ελληνικά post).

θα ήθελα να μεταφέρω την κατάσταση που επικρατεί αυτό το διάστημα:

η τηλεόραση πλέον δείχνει κατευθυνόμενες ειδήσεις. Ο καπιταλισμός έδειξε το ποιο άγριο πρόσωπο ακόμα και στην μεσσαία τάξη. Η προσπάθεια χειραγώγωσης μέσω των ΜΜΕ ήταν απίστευτη.

Όσο αφορά τους Έλληνες να σας πω το εξής: το χρήμα κινείται, πρόβλημα υπάρχει μόνο στους προμηθευτές του εξωτερικού. Έχω ενημέρωση όμως ότι οι περισσότεροι τα "βρήκαν" προσωρινά με τους προμηθευτές τους. Φόρους συνεχίζουμε να πληρώνουμε όπως επίσης και λ/σμους μέσω internet banking. Τις τελευταίες μέρες υπήρχε αύξηση στην αγορά αγαθών μεγάλης διάρκειας. Οι εργαζόμενοι στο ιδιωτικό τομέα (οι περισσότεροι) πληρώθηκαν μετρητοίς και όχι μέσω τραπεζικής οδού.

Και αυτό γιατί οι τράπεζες είναι κλειστές. Οπότε οι επιχ/σεις για να ξεφορτωθούν τα χρήματα, πλήρωσαν το προσωπικό. Εξαίρεση αποτελούν οι αλυσίδες καταστημάτων με αγαθά πολυτελείας, οι επιχ/σεις αυτές ΔΕΝ ΠΛΗΡΩΝΑΝ ΣΤΟ ΠΑΡΕΛΘΟΝ ΦΟΡΟΥΣ!

Τα ΑΤΜ το Σαβ/κο είνα άδεια, γιατί ο κόσμος πηγαίνει στη θάλασσα (και ναι, χρήματα υπάρχουν). Μόνο οι ηλικιωμένοι γεμίζουν τις τράπεζες καθημερινά. Όσο αφορά τα μαγαζιά εστίασης/καφετέριες/ταβέρνες είναι ικανοποιητικά, για την εποχή, γεμάτα. Την πρώτη μέρα του capital control, δεν μπορούσες να καταλάβεις τι είχε γίνει στην Ελλάδα. Τα ίδια ισχύουν και στα νησιά (οι κυρώσεις είναι περιορισμένες). Μόνο στην Αθήνα τα πράγματα είνα χειρότερα. Αλλά είναι γνωστό ότι στην Αθήνα η ζωή είναι ακριβότερη και επίσης βλέπεις ποιο συχνά εικόνες ακραίας φτώχιας.

 

 

προς Admin: προσπάθησα να κάνω login in και δεν μπόρεσα, για αυτό και έκανα δεύτερο λ/σμο. είδα τυχαία το mail εγγραφής και ξαναεπισκέφτηκα το forum.

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Guest Elizabeth123

Not this forum, that country. Is it so hard to understand the other side? Greece, greece, greece. Evry effort on this country is wasted. It is unable to reform. Germany already wasted 80 billion € for greece. Momey we could invest in our streets and infrastructure. We waste eneegy, money and time for some country that did never anything for us. We hear all this bullshit since 5 years now.

Two important questions:

according to economic theories, Greece should not have joined euros.

according to european treaties, Greece should not have taken money from EU.

So, why did Germany and the other european countries agree?

I am an economist and I can answer to these questions, can you?

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Here are some questions for you:

 

Are you leeches out of money yet?

How many Billions do you need to keep the party going for another year?

What makes you think you can spend more than you earn?

 

You people are disgusting. All I have to say is: ψοφηστε κοπριτες 

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Two important questions:

according to economic theories, Greece should not have joined euros.

according to european treaties, Greece should not have taken money from EU.

So, why did Germany and the other european countries agree?

I am an economist and I can answer to these questions, can you?

 

 

Political decissions done from leftist governments longe ago. But the mistakes of the past should not determine the future. 

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Political decissions done from leftist governments longe ago. But the mistakes of the past should not determine the future. 

 

 

I can understand that for some reasons you hate Greece. Ok, It is obvious. But, try to justify your answers with theories and examples. Reading your posts, the only thing I can think is that you may be a kid.

About my questions: if you read the european treaties and if you were aware of economic theories, you would answer my questions easily and without hesitation. So, I believe to democracy (democracy was born in Greece) and I respect anyone's opinion and I love participating in dialogues ( have a look at Plato's dialogues) and I try to exercise good judgements (Metis, Greek mythology:She was the first wife of Zeus, and became the goddess of wisdom, prudence and deep thought), that's why I read your posts. Otherwise, it would be a waste of time.

Greece gave YOU (not only you)human values, what did germany give us (the whole world)?????

 

PS1  I did not give you an answer as an economist, because it would be complicated to you to understand what I wrote.

PS2  bestiality (=having sex with animals) in germany is legal. So interesting for your culture...

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I can understand that for some reasons you hate Greece. Ok, It is obvious. But, try to justify your answers with theories and examples. Reading your posts, the only thing I can think is that you may be a kid.

About my questions: if you read the european treaties and if you were aware of economic theories, you would answer my questions easily and without hesitation. So, I believe to democracy (democracy was born in Greece) and I respect anyone's opinion and I love participating in dialogues ( have a look at Plato's dialogues) and I try to exercise good judgements (Metis, Greek mythology:She was the first wife of Zeus, and became the goddess of wisdom, prudence and deep thought), that's why I read your posts. Otherwise, it would be a waste of time.

Greece gave YOU (not only you)human values, what did germany give us (the whole world)?????

 

PS1 I did not give you an answer as an economist, because it would be complicated to you to understand what I wrote.

PS2 bestiality (=having sex with animals) in germany is legal. So interesting for your culture...

spare me your idiocy and arrogance. I'm a bank inspector trainee at the Bundesbank. So i would advice you to stick to the facts, stop to use ad hominem attacks and stay on topic. I'm not interested in old greek fairy tales about zeus or pikachu, nor am i interested in historical lies like "greece gave the world democracy". Ther was no democracy in greece. Women and slaves had no word at all and a small elite group ruled over others. Democracy was invented long before greece and is the basis of evry tribal society.

 

What germany gave the world? Computers, space travel, cars, x-rays, nuclear power, book printing, jet engines, chemical synthesis and the autobahn.

 

p.s.: if you insit to keep this laughable argument alive and bring more bullshit that happened 3000 years ago, greece doesn't exist anymore. It was under roman occupation and later under ottoman occupation. They formed a state later and called it greece. The inhabitants there today habe as much in common with old greece as George Bush with Pocahontas.

 

Now fuck off. Your intellectual deep diving gets boring.

 

P.s.: he/she/it is a fake account from this eyosimusthingsbumms. Same IP adress. How pathetic.

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Guest Elizabeth123

spare me your idiocy and arrogance. I'm a bank inspector trainee at the Bundesbank. So i would advice you to stick to the facts, stop to use ad hominem attacks and stay on topic. I'm not interested in old greek fairy tales about zeus or pikachu, nor am i interested in historical lies like "greece gave the world democracy". Ther was no democracy in greece. Women and slaves had no word at all and a small elite group ruled over others. Democracy was invented long before greece and is the basis of evry tribal society.

 

What germany gave the world? Computers, space travel, cars, x-rays, nuclear power, book printing, jet engines, chemical synthesis and the autobahn.

 

p.s.: if you insit to keep this laughable argument alive and bring more bullshit that happened 3000 years ago, greece doesn't exist anymore. It was under roman occupation and later under ottoman occupation. They formed a state later and called it greece. The inhabitants there today habe as much in common with old greece as George Bush with Pocahontas.

 

Now fuck off. Your intellectual deep diving gets boring.

 

P.s.: he/she/it is a fake account from this eyosimusthingsbumms. Same IP adress. How pathetic.

 

My account is real and not fake or double account.

I am not going to continue....just simple....

It seems that you know better history than economics, although I would like an answer from you as an a bank inspector trainee at the Bundesbank you are.....

good night from Greece!!!!!!

 

ps I did not offend you.... you shouldn't too...

 

 

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My account is real and not fake or double account.

I am not going to continue....just simple....

It seems that you know better history than economics, although I would like an answer from you as an a bank inspector trainee at the Bundesbank you are.....

good night from Greece!!!!!!

 

ps I did not offend you.... you shouldn't too...

 

your IP is the same as the eyosismus guy, So spare me that bla bla.

 

You didn't offend me? You called me a kid, insulted my nation, my heritage and my culture.

 

You want an answer? I give you one. It is positive for us to keep that crisis boiling. Greece is a 3rd world country with low standards. Since we have the same currency the greek drama keeps the €-exchange rate pretty low compared to the $. Germany bases its economic power mostly on export. The low € allows us record exports. A positive side effect is a low intest rate for us since unsecure lenders see us as safe haven. We earn money with this crisis and power. We profit from it. Thats just one aspect.

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I can understand that for some reasons you hate Greece. Ok, It is obvious. But, try to justify your answers with theories and examples. Reading your posts, the only thing I can think is that you may be a kid.

About my questions: if you read the european treaties and if you were aware of economic theories, you would answer my questions easily and without hesitation. So, I believe to democracy (democracy was born in Greece) and I respect anyone's opinion and I love participating in dialogues ( have a look at Plato's dialogues) and I try to exercise good judgements (Metis, Greek mythology:She was the first wife of Zeus, and became the goddess of wisdom, prudence and deep thought), that's why I read your posts. Otherwise, it would be a waste of time.

Greece gave YOU (not only you)human values, what did germany give us (the whole world)?????

 

PS1  I did not give you an answer as an economist, because it would be complicated to you to understand what I wrote.

PS2  bestiality (=having sex with animals) in germany is legal. So interesting for your culture...

Greeks know everything better. That's why Greece is the leading Industrial, Economic and Scientific Power in Europe!

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Elizabeth123

 

Greece gave YOU (not only you)human values

Greece, as in THE LAND gave none of that to the world. The ancient Hellenes who once lived on the land did indeed achieve a lot.

But they have nothing but NOTHING in common with you Gypsie/Ottoman mongrels who used to be a burden on the Ottoman Empire, are now a Burden on the European Union and may in the near future become a burden on BRICS.

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You didn't offend me? You called me a kid, insulted my nation, my heritage and my culture.

 

 

its funny that your so sensetive to having "your" nation insulted

 

whether your 20 0r 50, the fact remains that you need to grow up and show some respect

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To clear out that "democracy and human value" shit once and for all...

 

Greece was a dictatorship, ruled from a small elite. 2/3 of the people had no word at all and were treated like animals. A women had less worth than a horse in this "splendid society". It was a slave holder society of the worst kind. A cleptocracy (lol what irony. Some things never change).

 

My ancestors at the very same time had real democracy. They had a leader elected from all others. They meet in the so called "Thing" to made decissions. Women were equal to men. Our women fought in wars. Side by side with the men. 

 

p48fa6fa.jpg

 

The history of our nations has 2 similarities. We both faced the same enemies. The romans and later the ottoman empire.

 

Greece was defeated and crushed from both. They lived hundreds of years under roman occupation. As a province. Later they were for hundreds of years a province of the ottoman empire. 

 

We defeated the roman empire. We were never a part of rome. We later conquered rome and founded the holy roman empire of german nation. The ottomans attacked us as well. But we crushed them twice as they tried to capture vienna. 

 

I don´t denie that some ancient hellenes did great work for science, art and philosophy. Platon and Aristoteles come to my mind as well as Epikur and Homer. But it never was a warrior culture and it never was a working culture. And today greece has nothing to do with ancient hellas. 

 

The sad fact is, that modern greece was basicly refounded from germany. Emperor Wilhelm II had a sentimental view on ancient greece. Without that modern greeks would propably not even know about the history of the land the live on. The Akropolis would have been propably bombed away to make room for rancy apartments paid from EU money. 

 

So spare me the "greek pride" bullshit. Your people have nothing to be proud for. You have no functional country. You have no economy. You are not productive. Greece is a failed state on the same level as Simbabwe. And when you are pushed in the corner from reality, you dig up the rotten corpses of Aristoteles and Platon to scare reality away with the smell of decay. 

 

Way too much time and efforts have been wasted already from nations who work hard to be competitive on the world stage to hold greece over the water. 

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We have an agreement. Tsipras basicly got crushed. It is an irony that he has to push even harder things through the parliament. And best of all...a fond is created that will inhabit all national assets from greece. They will be privatized. The greeks lose control over it, because there are trust issues. The troika is back as well and the hardest austerity meassures ever. 

 

Now its time to move on. 

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I am very disapointed. Once again Germany didn't have the balls to go all the way and kick the Greeks out. The leeches will remain in the EURO continue to suck the life out of Europe. This is the end of the Euro and the European Union.

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I am very disapointed. Once again Germany didn't have the balls to go all the way and kick the Greeks out. The leeches will remain in the EURO continue to suck the life out of Europe. This is the end of the Euro and the European Union.

 

 

I don´t think so. We basicly got a new colony now. The meassures imposed on greece are incredible hard. They basicly lose their entire souvereignity. 

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I don´t think so. We basicly got a new colony now. The meassures imposed on greece are incredible hard. They basicly lose their entire souvereignity.

To the contrary. Do you realy believe Privatizations are gonna yield 50 bil? I doubt they will come to even 5 bil.

What about layoffs in the public sector? Any program that does not lead to the immediate layoff of 250000 public sector drones is doomed to fail.

 

What about wages and pensions? They are still at least two times higher than the productivity of the Greek economy allows. Any program that does not cut wages and pensions imidiately to 50% of what they are today is doomed to fail.

 

The agreement doesn't do enough to eliminate the Greek black hole. Three years down the road Germany will have lost 80 something bil and the situation in Greece is gonna be worse than ever.

 

Merkel and the Germans were once again way to timid and missed a historic opportunity to rectify the mistakes of the past and eject Greece from the EURO and the EU.

 

This mistake is gonna cost Germany dearly.

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To the contrary. Do you realy believe Privatizations are gonna yield 50 bil? I doubt they will come to even 5 bil.

Seems I was a bit too optimistic in my assesment:

 

 

Der Internationale Währungsfonds (IWF) erwartet vom griechischen Privatisierungsfonds in den kommenden drei Jahren nur einen Erlös von 1,5 Milliarden Euro. Das berichtet die "Wirtschaftswoche" vorab unter Berufung auf ein Verhandlungsdokument vom jüngsten EU-Gipfel, das dem Magazin vorliege. Die offizielle Vorgabe liegt hingegen bei 50 Milliarden Euro.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/griechenland-iwf-zerpflueckt-privatisierungsziel-a-1046095.html

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