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Guest Satyr

Λιαντινις ο, ξεχασμένος στοχαστής.

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Guest Satyr

You mean, you've never read Nietzsche entirely? 

Do you refer a writer's thoughts to your own experiences or not? 

 

I can start posting quote, after quote, if you like, but it's not my style. 

Not only about Christianity, but about the Jews. 

If you want to modernize him, humanize him, that is your affair.

His metaphorical method lends itself to Delphic, or Biblical like reinterpretations.

 

Reality is my only guide.

I discuss world, not proxies, and middle-men, but only if to support my own views. 

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Guest Satyr

I'll break my own rule...

 

The people of Israel. One of the spectacles which the next century will invite 
us to witness is the decision regarding the fate of the European Jews. It is 
quite obvious now that they have cast their die and crossed their Rubicon: the 
only thing that remains for them is either to become masters of Europe or to 
lose Europe, as they once centuries ago lost Egypt, where they were 
confronted with similar alternatives. In Europe, however, they have gone 
through a schooling of eighteen centuries such as no other nation has ever 
undergone, and the experiences of this dreadful time of probation have 
benefited the individual to a greater degree than it has the community as a 
whole. As a consequence of this, the resourcefulness of the modern Jews, 
both in mind and soul, is extraordinary. Amongst all the inhabitants of 
Europe it is the Jews least of all who try to escape from any deep distress by 
recourse to drink or to suicide, as other less gifted people are so prone to do. 
Every Jew can find in the history of his own family and of his ancestors a 
long record of instances of the greatest coolness and perseverance amid 
difficulties and dreadful situations, an artful cunning in fighting with 
misfortune and hazard. And above all it is their bravery under the cloak of 
wretched submission, their heroic spernere se sperni that surpasses the 
virtues of all the saints. People wished to make them contemptible by treating 
them contemptibly for nearly twenty centuries, and refusing them access to 
all honorable positions and dignities, and by pushing them further down into 
the meaner trades and under this process indeed, they have not become any 
cleaner. But contemptible? They have never ceased for a moment from 
believing themselves qualified for the very highest functions, nor have the
virtues of the suffering ever ceased to adorn them. Their manner of honoring 
their parents and children, the rationality of their marriages and marriage 
customs, distinguishes them amongst all Europeans. Besides this, they have 
been able to create for themselves a sense of power and eternal vengeance 
from the very trades that were left to them (or to which they were abandoned). 
Even in palliation of their usury we cannot help saying that, without this 
occasional pleasant and useful torture inflicted on their scorners, they would 
have experienced difficulty in preserving their self-respect for so long. For 
our self-respect depends upon our ability to make reprisals in both good and 
evil things. Nevertheless, their revenge never urges them on too far, for they 
all have that liberty of mind, and even of soul, produced in men by frequent 
changes of place, climate, and customs of neighbors and oppressors, they 
possess by far the greatest experience in all human intercourse, and even in 
their passions they exercise the caution which this experience has developed 
in them. They are so certain of their intellectual versatility and shrewdness 
that they never, even when reduced to the direst straits, have to earn their 
bread by manual labor as common workmen, porters, or farm hands. In their 
manners we can still see that they have never been inspired by chivalric and 
noble feelings, or that their bodies have ever been girt with fine weapons: a 
certain obtrusiveness alternates with a submissiveness which Is often tender 
and almost always painful. Now, however, that they unavoidably inter-marry 
more and more year after year with the noblest blood of Europe, they will 
soon have a considerable heritage of good intellectual and physical manners, 
so that in another hundred years they will have a sufficiently noble aspect not 
to render themselves, as masters, ridiculous to those whom they will have 
subdued. And this is important! and therefore a settlement of the question is 
still premature. They themselves know very well that the conquest of Europe 
or any act of violence is not to be thought of; but they also know that 
someday or other Europe may, like a ripe fruit, fall into their hands, if they do 
not clutch at it too eagerly. In the meantime, it is necessary for them to 
distinguish themselves in all departments of European distinction and to stand 
in the front rank: until they shall have advanced so far as to determine 
themselves what distinction shall mean. Then they will be called the pioneers 
and guides of the Europeans whose modesty they will no longer offend. And 
then where shall an outlet be found for this abundant wealth of great 
impressions accumulated during such an extended period and representing 
Jewish history for every Jewish family, this wealth of passions, virtues, 
resolutions, resignations, struggles, and conquests of all kinds where can it 
find an outlet but in great intellectual men and works! On the day when the 
Jews will be able to exhibit to us as their own work such jewels and golden 
vessels as no European nation, with its shorter and less profound experience, 
can or could produce, when Israel shall have changed its eternal vengeance 
into an eternal benediction for Europe: then that seventh day will once more 
appear when old Jehovah may rejoice in Himself, in His creation, in His 
chosen people and all, all of us, will rejoice with Him ! [Daybreak, 205]

 

 

 

The Jews are the most remarkable nation of world history because, faced with 
the question of being or not being, they preferred... being at any price: the 
price they had to pay was the radical falsification of all nature, all naturalness, 
all reality, the entire inner world as well as the outer... Considered 
psychologically, the Jewish nation is a nation of the toughest vital energy 
which... took the side of all décadence instincts—not as being dominated by 
them but because it divined in them a power by means of which one can 
prevail against ‘the world.’ The Jews are the counterparts of décadents: they 
have been compelled to act as décadents to the point of illusion... [T]his kind 
of man has a life-interest in making mankind sick, and in inverting the 
concepts of ‘good’ and ‘evil,’ ‘true’ and ‘false’ in a mortally dangerous and 
world-maligning sense. (sec. 24)

 

 

If you cannot understand victim psychology as herd psychology....and how identifying as the "people chosen, by god, to suffer no his behalf", expressed in Christianity as this perpetual whining, and praying, and accusing, and seeking help in an external power, then I cannot help you.

 

Look around you. 

The war on identity.

Everyone is a "victim" demanding special status because they've been hurt.

 

To "hate" them would be to become aprt of their paradigm of emotions.

Love = god

Hate = devil

 

 

 

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Well,

 

I didn't ask for disjoined quotes. I have read Nietzsche, Hegel, Heideger, Kant, in the German original btw. I went through the trouble to outline, in my own simple words, the inherent contradiction in Nietzsche.

 

Namely:

He declares God as the source of "Greatness" and since GOD is dead he suggests to those who want "Greatness" to create, or help create, it themselves. This is the same as saying: Kill the old GOD and create a new one in your image.

 

If I understand you correctly you suggest that to "Make Europe Great Again" europeans have to free themselves from the "God of the Jew" and create their very own new God (aka Greatness).

 

For one, thats what Hitler did in Germany and Stalin in the Soviet Union. The heroic monuments of both those ideologies are renditions of Nietzsches heroic "Superman". And we both know how that worked out. Right?

 

Nietzsche seems to think that his relativism is something new. But he is wrong. The basic thesis of relativism is:

Since there are no absolute messures for morality, virtue, anything we may just go ahead and make up our own.

And we make them up in a way that serves our ambition.

 

Well, that's exactly how Moses created the Jewish religion or Hitler started his Germanic race cult. None of that is beneficial or even original.

 

And again what the hell is Greatness and wence the imperative to strive for it?

 

Personally, I feel more at home in the garden of Epicurus, or fishing by the river Pu alongside Zhuangzi then in the company of Nietzsches Heroic "Superman".

 

Nietzsches Hero is, at best, selfdestructive but more likely to destroy everyone around him. He is likely to sacrifice lives that are not his own to his ambition and the outcome is always certain to be NIL. I hate Nietzsches Superman with a passion.

 

His Greatness is a fictious "Higher End" that serves no other purpose than to reationalize the basest of means. I reject this idiocy with a passion.

 

But me aside, how do you intent to lead Europe to Greatness. So far all you have produced are disjoined statements/quotes. You do talk a lot about what those Jews do but havent set anything about what should be done by "The others".

 

So what exactly is this Greatness you want to reach for Europe?

What makes it worth reaching?

And how, in concrete terms, can it be reached?

 

You have to offer your audience at least that much if you expect them to get out of their way and join you on your Long Heroic Nietzschean march.

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Guest Satyr

Nietzsche's relativism is not Modern relativism.

Moderns use relativism to defend equality of judgment - to create the delusion that all is subjective, therefore all are equally right.

 

Hitler was to Nietzsche what Stalin was to Marx.

He did try to rescue Europe from the dis-ease, and he failed because of his own hubris.

 

You are a hedonist?

Then you belong with the Jews.

 

The heroic is greatness.

The άριστον.

Aristocracy - to exalt the άριστον

 

What differentiates us form animal?

Our capacity to enjoy?

To be comfortable?

Our size, our speed, our strength?

 

I have spoken of Judaism and Christianity/islam as the spiritual branches of it. I have spoken of Marxism and Humanism as its political branches.

 

I have spoken of Democracy as a symptom of Hellenic decline...but I have not spoken of Timocracy.

 

What i do is diagnose and inject the sick mind with a serum, to reinvigorate sleeping autoimmunity.

I reveal what is concealed - I recall what has been forgotten [λήθη].

I dig up what has been buried and left for dead.

This is a War like no Other...not only more than a Cold War, it is frigid. A noetic war - memetic war against a memetic virus.

A war against European man - a war of extermination.

If you feel no need to fight, and you only want to sit back and enjoy, that is what defines you.

When I see my people being extinguished, my family destroyed, I stand and fight, in whatever way I can

Sure, I can lie back, next to a river, and watch it flow...i actually would enjoy that.

But there's something in me, call it pride, that does not let me stomach lies.

 

When I hear dullards speak of no races, or how both sexes are the same, and gender is a social construct, or how homosexuality is natural, normal, I feel the need to speak out against such lies, such delusions, 

 

If Brazil is your preferred future, then you need not read my posts again.

If the U.S. is your ideal state then move-on.

No hard feelings. 

Go back to narcosis.

 

By the way...you being so well-read, you must have also read Schopenhauer.

He describes pleasure as a "negative", to the usual need/suffering of existence.

Self-inebriation, masturbation, a momentary reprieve from the sensation of existing in the cosmic flux.

Be and let be.

An addict's mantra. 

So many generations of sheltering have had an impact. 

 

Cary on, wont bother you guy again

The forums is dead anyway...mostly kids looking for Greek pop songs.

Carry on.

Ta, Ta,

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It is amazing how subconsiously "Judaeo Christian" you are.

From dennouncing Epicurus as a "Hedonist" down to the "White Man" prosecution complex.

 

Anyhow, since you are hell bend to wage an ideological war I suggest you consider the advice of Sun Tzu:

 

The greatest victory is that which requires no battle.

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Isn't it natural for all of us in here, born and raised in a "judeo-christian" environment, to be "influenced" by this same environment we were born into? When some of us decide to "denounce" god isn't it only natural to denounce the "judeo-christian" god? This is the god we know. 

 

I've read extensively about several other religions, but it's one thing to read about something and a different thing to experience it. 

 

In any case, going back to your guys' previous discussion, I find it interesting that most people who have a pro extreme right-wing agenda seem to hate the Jews with a passion. Why is this? Granted that the extreme right-wing folks hate a number of other people too (blacks etc.) but hating the Jews is a must. I wonder why this is when most pro extreme right-wing people seem to also be pretty religious (of the Christian type...) too.

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You certainly won't suggest that Shakespears portrayal of "Shylock" makes the author a right-wing extremist. Bulgarin, Gogol, Turgenev, Dostoyevsky they all portray the Jews in a less than flattering light. The 19th century Greman authors Hauff, Freytag portray Jews as vilains. The French Dupin, Balzac depict Jews as immoral and greedy. And even the great Voltaire, who was a rather tolerant man, didn't seem to tolerate the Jews.

 

Much of that can certainly be attributed to the fact that Jews were a small yet disproportionaly powerfull ethno-religious group that stubornly resisted assimilation into the European host nations. Not so in the case of Dostoyevsky and Voltaire who oppose not so much "The Jew" as the "Jewish Worldview". They are wedged somewhere between the literary stereotype and the philosophic discurse on "The Jewish Question".

 

Even Marx, Jewish born and as a child baptised into Lutheranism, adrresses the "Jewish Question" notably in response to Bruno Bauers "Die Judenfrage". Interestingly enough, Marx doesn't bother to deny Bauer's accusations against the Jews. Instead he responds with the words:

 

 

Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew – not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew.

Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew.

What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money.

 

Very well then! Emancipation from huckstering and money, consequently from practical, real Judaism, would be the self-emancipation of our time.

An organization of society which would abolish the preconditions for huckstering, and therefore the possibility of huckstering, would make the Jew impossible. His religious consciousness would be dissipated like a thin haze in the real, vital air of society. On the other hand, if the Jew recognizes that this practical nature of his is futile and works to abolish it, he extricates himself from his previous development and works for human emancipation as such and turns against the supreme practical expression of human self-estrangement.

We recognize in Judaism, therefore, a general anti-social element of the present time, an element which through historical development – to which in this harmful respect the Jews have zealously contributed – has been brought to its present high level, at which it must necessarily begin to disintegrate.

 

In the final analysis, the emancipation of the Jews is the emancipation of mankind from Judaism.

 

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/jewish-question/

 

 

In essence, Marx agrees with Bauer that the world must be freed from "The Jew" but the way to do this is, according to Marx, to free the world from the afflictions the Jew embodies, understands and , do to his practicality, so skillfully exploits. So Marx proposes to free the Jew by freeing humanity from everything that resembles Judaism.

No one in his right mind would ever accuse Marx of being a far right extremist of course, so where does he get this stuff from and more importantly: Is Marx right. Is there, or rather was there at that time, a Jewish question to be addressed?

 

As for the where he gets it, look no further then Hegel. Who writes:

 

 

The Tragedy of the Jewish people is no Greak Tragedy, it can awaken neither fear nor pity since both are created only by the fate of a neccesary error of a beautifull being; it can create only disgust.

 

The fate of the Jewish people is the fate of Macbeth, who stepped out of nature itself, relied on alien beings, and then in their service had to trample and kill all that is holy in human nature.

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=Lw_rAwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=the%20fate%20of%20the%20jewish&f=false

 

 

Hegel did of course study the Hellenes and he also studied Theology in Tübingen. So naturally he came to compare the Hellene to the Jew side by side. And he noticed the obvious:

 

Those two are diametric opposites. And it is obvious from Hegels statement that he chooses to count himself among the Hellenes while we Novo-Graecians still cling to the -Unding- of Helleno-Christianity. No matter wehere you were born in the world and what upbringing you had at the end every man on earth can only stand somewhere between the two extremal archetypes of the Jew and the Hellene.

But Hegel only realizes something the Jews knew since Hellenistic times.

 

In Zechariah 9:13 you can read:

 

 

For I have bent Judah as my bow; I have made Ephraim its arrow. I will stir up your sons, O Zion, against your sons, O Greece, and wield you like a warrior’s sword.

 

 

About 6 centuries latter. The Hellenes where ground into the dust. Not by swords, or mighty armies. The once mighty Hellas was utterly defeated single handedly by one rather unpleasant uncharismatic Syrian Jew con-artist named Paul of Tarsus. And had Greece not been a Roman province at the time but at the peak of its power. Even if it had fielded mighty armies let by a God among men such as Alexander with a host of demi-gods and heroes under his command the outcome would still have been the same.

 

One single Paul of Tharsus would singlehandedly crush them into the dust a million times over. One who understands why that is can understand the source of Hegels disgust.

 

----- But

I'm out of time got to go. Promise to pick it back up soon though.

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Sure, I agree. Hating the Jews has been an excellent past time for many cultures and people for centuries. It's not something new. I guess the reasoning behind hating them hasn't changed much over the year. As you said, they're a very small yet disproportionately powerful group of people, and they're disproportionately "powerful" and "visible" in several areas, banking, sciences, business, arts...Despite prosecution, since the ancient times, they've found ways to continue being successful for centuries. This says something about their resilience if nothing else.

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Sure, I agree. Hating the Jews has been an excellent past time for many cultures and people for centuries. It's not something new. I guess the reasoning behind hating them hasn't changed much over the year. As you said, they're a very small yet disproportionately powerful group of people, and they're disproportionately "powerful" and "visible" in several areas, banking, sciences, business, arts...Despite prosecution, since the ancient times, they've found ways to continue being successful for centuries. This says something about their resilience if nothing else.

The hatred of "The Jew" is a feature of those adhere to "The Hellenic Ideal" without trully understanding it. Yes I'm talking about those slackers who put on the Grimson Tunic after they've watched 300 three hundred times over and don't even realize that they've watched a Jewish production. OK, those folks represent the extrem case but "The Jew" haters tend to drift towards that direction. The Hellene of classical antiquity didn't care about the Jew at all and barely mentions him.

 

The Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Shintoist doesn't hate "The Jew" and doesn't fear him either. In fact, he doesn't care about "The Jew" at all. They settle into the gravitas of their own lasting tradition. The Arab doesn't hate "The Jew" either, he hates Israel as a constant reminder of the humiliations he suffered from Europeans. In his case Jew hatred is just collateral damage.

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Guest eyoismos

So you are telling me that, the Church, the State, The Law, all of "You", have ownership over the life of Liantinis or Vellios or me?

How so? Who gave all of you that right? Your God perhaps? Even though he's not my God?

 

 

 

last i heard ... the death sentence is legal in the state of texas where you live in..amounst many parts of the world

 

that alone proves the state, the church, the law , whoever has control and ownership of our lives...

ethical? thats irrelevant

moral ? irrelevant

 

the point is ... your argument has absolutely no standing whatsover

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And you say that suicide is "unnatural" while at the same time Greece celebrates occurrences of mass suicide such as those at the Arkadi Monastery or at the Zalongo village as acts of heroism. Did you mean to say that acts of suicide are unnatural unless they fit into the mythical narative of our ethnogenesis?

romanticized view for the consumption of the masses.... but most usually dont bother to ask why such actions where undertaken

like for example ... the alternative was slavery, torture, rape ...etc ... death before freedom is a notion brought about by those who didnt die ...not to mention instances like suicide bombers do what they do, under the directive of those in the upper etchelos of alleged power , so they can stay in power and influence, and have idiots to do their thing for the ruling classes to get their way ... or to put it differently .. i would love to see the day when a high end mufti, ayatollah, whatever does the suicide bomber thing...but that will NEVER happen... why ? because they would have too much too lose ....ok ... ok... then their is the case of harakiri and the japs ... but then WHY is it so ? BECAUSE "you" ," me", the state, the people, whatever, wills it so ...which leads back to what i was saying all along ... nobody's life is their own

 

the closest proximity for comparison would maybe be the cases of animals that have been caught in vicious animal traps, who are prepared to chew their leg off so they can escape .... AND LIVE ...even if crippled is the result ...but then they are animals not humans, who supposedly have self awareness and conscious, while animals are driven  by instinct

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romanticized view for the consumption of the masses.... but most usually dont bother to ask why such actions where undertaken

like for example ... the alternative was slavery, torture, rape ...etc ... death before freedom is a notion brought about by those who didnt die ...not to mention instances like suicide bombers do what they do, under the directive of those in the upper etchelos of alleged power , so they can stay in power and influence, and have idiots to do their thing for the ruling classes to get their way

 

the closest proximity for comparison would maybe be the cases of animals that have been caught in vicious animal traps, who are prepared to chew their leg off so they can escape .... AND LIVE ...even if crippled is the result ...but then they are animals not humans, who supposedly have self awareness and conscious, while animals are driven  by instinct

 

Some hysterical ugly bitches jump over a cliff and you consider them heroes. Someone commits suicide because he is terminaly ill, like Vellios, or because he doesn't consider life worth living anymore, like Liantinis, and Attorney Generall goes investigating cause the Church can't tolerate such a sin.

 

Konstantinos Giaboudakis, who "suicided" over 900 women and children by blowing up the magazin in Arkadi only to negotiate a surrender of his men to the Ottomans after he received garanties for his life is a true Hero. And what happened to the few surviving women and Children captured by the Ottomans? They were set free one week latter. Giaboudakis and his captains were executed but a good number of his foot soldiers were released within a year.

 

Orthodox Novo-Graecia has no issue celebrating this insanity as an act of heroism. Wait... It was only mass infanticide which is apparently not as great a sin as suicide in Orthodxy.

 

Doesn't matter. Let those who must, put the remains of Liantinis and Vellios on trial. They don't have anything better to do anyways.

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Guest eyoismos

 

Some hysterical ugly bitches jump over a cliff and you consider them heroes.

 

 

as always smoking pot and ignoring what i said .... where did i ever say they where heroes? did i not say a romanticized view but those left who carried on living?

 

and that just for starters

 

forget about the fact that "Giaboudakis" ...and in quotes, to represent each and every one of "you", "me" , "the state", "the collective" ... or whatever decide on the life of "others", and "others" have f-all to say on it

 

reall amusing your method of argument ... but i must say you  are consistent with distortions of what was said by those you disagree with you and your interpretations

 

whats even more amusing ... "ugly bitches" ? ...seriously? you where there and you checked them out? since when did you invent time travel ?

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right.

 

Except that Giaboudakis was not "The State". He was a tyranical litle prick (aka The Typical Greek) who "suicided" those women and children following his very own delusions. The Ottoman state that had juristiction over Crete ordered all armed terrorists to vacate the monastery. The Greek state send colonel Koronaios to take command in the theatre. Koronaios ordered, in the name of the Greek state, the 1500 armed men there to vacate the monastery cause it could not be defended. Around 1200 acknowledged his authority and followed him. If anything, the whole affair shows that neither the Ottoman nor the Greek state had any influence over Giaboudakis. Greece decided, after all was done, to include this insanity into the national mythology.

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Guest eyoismos

no argument on the prick thing ... but he was definitely a part of the "you" and "me" who decided about life of others ....

 

so ultimately your whole argument falls flat on its face

 

ie. one does NOT have jurisdiction over their own life ...to remove it that is, or more specifically .... suicide is not the "right" of anybody to have or  undertake... PERIOD

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no argument on the prick thing ... but he was definitely a part of the "you" and "me" who decided about life of others ....

 

so ultimately your whole argument falls flat on its face

 

ie. one does NOT have jurisdiction over their own life ...to remove it that is, or more specifically .... suicide is not the "right" of anybody to have or  undertake... PERIOD

 

Interesting,

How you feel empowered by your "Universal Principles" to speak for others. Just like Giaboudakis denied his victims jurisdiction over their own life as he decided to kill them. And, in turn, went and placed his life under the juristiction of the Ottomans. And here you are, in the same spirit, denying the most natural and elemental, in fact THE ONLY natural right of an individual being. So to whom does ones life rightfully belong? To any deluded brigand who comes along and claims it?

 

A life belongs to the one who lives it to do with it as he pleases. Once you abolish that principle you reduce an individual to a piece of cattle with the earmark of its owner. You don't seem to have a problem with that. Do as you please. I'm not trying to change the world. I follow my own principles. Don't imposse my principles on others and don't let anyone impose his principles on me.

 

As I said before,

What can all of "you" do? Put the remains of Vellios or Liantinis on trial for giving a shit about those who earmarked them without their consent?

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Guest eyoismos

and what makes you think that average joe is not "cattle" ?

 

and that the herder is one of the financial or governing (and i use that word very loosely) elite ?

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