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Would you support a return to the Megali Idea as well as a more nationalistic Greece?

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The Fables of Lafontaine in English - for you, Ajaxmonkey, I hope you like them. The impact of reading them in English will not be the same, but I hope the gist of the story is there.

 

http://www.la-fontaine-ch-thierry.net/fablanglalphab.htm

Thanks for the link friend. Much appreciated.

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Guest eyoismos

Eyo mentioned instances of Chinese internal conflicts as if I had mentioned the 100 year war, the 30 year war or any orher internal European conflicts.

185,250–3,000,000 – Hundred Years' War

 

3,000,000–11,500,000 - thirty year war ... a european war ...not exactly a single "nation"

 

and yet ... three kingdoms war ... almost 40 million

 

very appropriate comparison as equivalent by yourself

 

ultimately though ALL wars are about enforcing one's will, ideals, philosophies ,,,,blah balh balh ... but in reality they are all about land, resources, control etc

and religion has fuck-all to do with them ...apart from being an rabid excuse to justify to the people why they are off to die for king and country, or emperor or whatever ...so they governing elite can have their luxuries and bloated egos and what not

 

there is no difference between the human nature of europeans, or asians or whatever. they are all ultimately pretty much the same ....and you can argue about who is the best or worse till the cows come home ...but then only fools would do that, for only fools would not recognise that the only difference is place in history

 

and to prove my point ....

 

China in Africa: The New Imperialists? http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/china-in-africa-the-new-imperialists

 

 

 

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185,250–3,000,000 – Hundred Years' War

 

3,000,000–11,500,000 - thirty year war ... a european war ...not exactly a single "nation"

 

and yet ... three kingdoms war ... almost 40 million

 

very appropriate comparison as equivalent by yourself

 

ultimately though ALL wars are about enforcing one's will, ideals, philosophies ,,,,blah balh balh ... but in reality they are all about land, resources, control etc

and religion has fuck-all to do with them ...apart from being an rabid excuse to justify to the people why they are off to die for king and country, or emperor or whatever ...so they governing elite can have their luxuries and bloated egos and what not

 

there is no difference between the human nature of europeans, or asians or whatever. they are all ultimately pretty much the same ....and you can argue about who is the best or worse till the cows come home ...but then only fools would do that, for only fools would not recognise that the only difference is place in history

 

and to prove my point ....

 

China in Africa: The New Imperialists? http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/china-in-africa-the-new-imperialists

 

 

Eyo mentioned instances of Chinese internal conflicts as if I had mentioned the 100 year war, the 30 year war or any orher internal European conflict.

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Guest eyoismos

.100 year war and 30 year war wasnt even in the cards UNTIL you mentioned them ... which only proves that you DID mention them

 

but that is not the point

 

the point is that the chinese throughout history is NO different .... and to be honest , living in africa one sees the other face of the chinese .... regularly

 

and the article i pointed to confirms it even more than my own experiences

 

and that is just the chinese ...who ultimately prove to be just as racist, for example,  as the europeans , or the indigenous populations

 

hiding it better from the surface makes absolutely no difference whatsoever .... EVERYBODY, without exception, wants what "the others" have, be it power, land, resources, influence, whatever .... EVERYBODY plays "the game" using their own "sets of rules" , priorities and importance are ...well.... different ... according to perspectives

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You love to argue against reason. Well, lets tally:

 

Congo:

Belgians: slaughter in the millions, anihilation of villages for not delivering on ruber quotas, forcefull conversions to Catholicism.

China: No involvement

 

Namibia:

Germany: slaughter of the Herero, documented genocidal orders for no reason at all.

China: No Involvement.

 

Abesynia:

Italy: use of poison gas on civilians, murder and oppresion for the purpose of pillage.

China: No involvement

 

Algeria:

France: Slaughter in the millions in persuit of imperial ambitions.

China:No involvement.

 

Angola:

Portugese: Slaughter and oppression for the purpose of Pillage

China: No involvement

 

Mozambique:

Portugese: Slaughter and oppression for the purpose of Pillage

China: No involvement

 
the list goes on and on.....
So where exactly does that sentiment, satyr expressed, come from that "Europe" must be united to save the world from the evil Chinese?
If the Chinese were half as agressive as the Europeans, a great part of the world would be Taoist today. But this isn't the case even in Chinas immidiate neighborhood or in China. Foreign faiths such as Buddhism, Islam, Christianity can be found in China and her vicinity. While Europe prosecuted everything that was not Christianity into extinction in her own territory and almost all teritories she conquered.
 
Perhaps you are so blinded by the notion of European (aka Judeo-Christian) superiority that the facts don't even register with you. European arrogance is the one true evil the world has to get rid of.

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Guest eyoismos

holly fuck ... where did i say European superiority you dumb ass ?

 

all i said is they/we , humans, are all the same, irrespective of color, creed, or whatever

 

 

and while we are at it ... belgians an ethicity ? seriously ? and that but an example

 

not to mention that the respective armies include many of the indigenous people, albeit from opposing tribes ..and we are talking africa here alone

 

 

or for the fact that ... well .. to put it into perspective ... why you think they are so many "muslims" in france ... mostly from algeria? oh wait ... the algerians where fighting as well ..to conquer algeria, ... on behalf of the french

 

some people are so naive as to not see the broader picture .... and the broader picture is .... yup ... they tossers on top of the food chain ...which so happen to be often of european extraction

 

while we are at it ... ever heard of ... Caracalla  ? a black emperor of rome .... pretty weird if you ask me ... rome governed my an african, and black no less

 

and sure the chinese didnt get involved THEN  .... and in the same way either ...they operate differently , and in different areas

apart from the numbers of population they had to slaughter ... which are quite comparable to the individual so called ethnicities of the individual european "ethinicites", if not worse .... ESPECIALLY NOW in africa

 

its all about firepower ... the chinese may have invented gunpowder, but the european perfected it, and in many ways are STILL leaps and bounds ahead of the so called opposition .... that was in those days.... today its about technology and money .... and yes ... the chines are behind ...barely ... but the "notion" of "european" are still ahead by a mile

 

for the time being and in this part of history

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Perhaps you are so blinded by the notion of European (aka Judeo-Christian) superiority that the facts don't even register with you. European arrogance is the one true evil the world has to get rid of.

 

 

Reality is that most ethnic groups regard themselves as superior as compared to their neighbours. We know this since ancient times, since the time we have recorded history. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that even before that time, when people were living in caves,small bands of people or families  would most likely think themselves as superior to other bands or families living nearby. And if they'd have the means (if they were physically stronger, if they had better weapons etc.) they would certainly make sure to enforce their "superiority" to everyone around them.

 

In short, I'd agree with eyoismos on this. This is human nature. Has nothing to do with race, religion or anything else. Given an opportunity most human beings would enforce their "imaginary superiority" to others.

 

Europeans had the means to do it since the 1400-1500's as they had more advanced weaponry than their opponents in all other continents. In the Americas whole civilizations were wiped out before the Europeans got there. In Asia the Mongols invaded China several times and wiped out millions of people. The same with the Japanese who invaded several areas in Asia and killed millions of people. The Chinese invaded Tibet in recent times, and also Korea and Vietnam (both in recent and ancient times).

 

So saying that Europeans are "evil" and the Chinese or other Asians are "saint" doesn't really make much sense.

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Guest FriendofGreece

http://www.afr.com/news/world/asia/china-its-got-so-big-it-changes-everything-20160815-gqsrky

 

"Giant role in developing Africa

An insight into how OBOR might work can be gained from the remarkable success China has so far achieved in its economic engagement with Africa. China now plays a pivotal role, largely because of its no-nonsense, non-judgmental, can-do approach.

Examples of China's infrastructure prowess in Africa abound, from a new deep water port in Kenya, to railways throughout East Africa and roads and hospitals in Guinea-Bissau. Elsewhere there is a lengthening list of new roads, hospitals, ­airports, power stations, railways and schools springing up with billboards ­featuring Chinese aid organisations.

They are providing an infrastructure that could help Africa emerge from half a century of mendicant state status and a litany of wars, starvation, pestilence and rampant corruption. From a paltry $US1 billion in bilateral trade 35 years ago, Chinese-African trade and investment flows have risen an astonishing 200-fold.

At the same time China is strengthening its grip on resources and political goodwill in an Africa with abundant reserves of oil, gas, iron ore, coal, copper, gold, diamonds and uranium, plus enormous potential to contribute to global food security.

Fitch Ratings has estimated that China's Export-Import Bank extended $US67.2 billion in loans to sub-Saharan African countries between 2001 and 2010 – $US12.5 billion more than the World Bank. The figures are potentially stratospheric, with the Export-Import Bank of China forecasting a few years ago that by 2025, China will have provided Africa with $US1 trillion in financing, including direct investment, soft loans and commercial loans."

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Guest FriendofGreece

Very interesting story on the struggles of colonized and oppressed countries to overcome their conquerors. One must not forget that it is only in the last few decades that they finally gained their independence.

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/china-and-the-struggle-of-oppressed-nations-for-self-determination-national-liberation-and-socialism/5549495

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http://www.afr.com/news/world/asia/china-its-got-so-big-it-changes-everything-20160815-gqsrky

 

"Giant role in developing Africa

An insight into how OBOR might work can be gained from the remarkable success China has so far achieved in its economic engagement with Africa. China now plays a pivotal role, largely because of its no-nonsense, non-judgmental, can-do approach.

Examples of China's infrastructure prowess in Africa abound, from a new deep water port in Kenya, to railways throughout East Africa and roads and hospitals in Guinea-Bissau. Elsewhere there is a lengthening list of new roads, hospitals, ­airports, power stations, railways and schools springing up with billboards ­featuring Chinese aid organisations.

They are providing an infrastructure that could help Africa emerge from half a century of mendicant state status and a litany of wars, starvation, pestilence and rampant corruption. From a paltry $US1 billion in bilateral trade 35 years ago, Chinese-African trade and investment flows have risen an astonishing 200-fold.

At the same time China is strengthening its grip on resources and political goodwill in an Africa with abundant reserves of oil, gas, iron ore, coal, copper, gold, diamonds and uranium, plus enormous potential to contribute to global food security.

Fitch Ratings has estimated that China's Export-Import Bank extended $US67.2 billion in loans to sub-Saharan African countries between 2001 and 2010 – $US12.5 billion more than the World Bank. The figures are potentially stratospheric, with the Export-Import Bank of China forecasting a few years ago that by 2025, China will have provided Africa with $US1 trillion in financing, including direct investment, soft loans and commercial loans."

 

This is of course the reason why Europe sees China as a thread. Europeans rather see the crackers who were running the apparthaid regime continue to run virtually all major farming and mining operations in Africa plundering the continet and taking theier orofits to Europe. And Europe ensures that it stays that way by issuing export loan garanties to those robber barons. The african post colonial elite drives Mercedes gets a cut, which they also take to Europe, and is quite confy with the arrangement. But here comes China, which puts shoes on the feet of the common African, a shirt on his ass and a cellphone in his hand. And it trades with the Africans directly, without European loan garanties. It it engages in trade without judging local customs, culture, ideology.

 

What Europe fears is that the Europeans who stayed back to run the postcolonial scam in Africa may soon lose their usefullness while a dynamic young African population will expand into Europe. Considering that Africa doubles her population of 1.2 bil today every 27 years you can be sure that Europes future is racialy black. And only those who remain attacheted to the unfounded myth of European superiority can expect European culture to survive the coming masive demographic shift. The rest of the world can look forward to better times where Euro-pricks have become an endangered species. 

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Right, so China invests in Africa because of the goodness of their heart. That's priceless... :lol:

 

Africa is a logical place for the Chinese to extend their geopolitical influence. They're already the major power in Asia, there's nowhere to move to westwards of them as India is a traditional rival of China and so are the Japanese to their east.

Europe is not a realistic option for them, even though they do expand slowly in places like Greece (where they've taken over the port of Piraeus and they're looking to invest in other areas too).

 

So investing in Africa and expanding their influence there is really a no brainer. Africa is still rich in raw materials, from gold and platinum to a much more important mineral to the Chinese called "coltan" - eyoismos may have more info on this.

 

Nothing new here. Colonialism has changed its ways as clearly shown by the Chinese. There are other ways to extort influence on local populations other than military force.

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Yeah the Chinese engage in TRADE and offer something in return for African raw materials. Namely: manufactured goods. While the Europeans continue to rob Africa by paying off the local Euro bootlicker elite with Euro assets. And if the White Crackers who still controll much land and resources in Africa get nervous France is sure to send in its bloodthirsty legion and shoot the place up. As they do twice a year or so. Europeans are directly responsible for every conflict and attrocity comitted in Africa in modern times and yet they dare preaching about human rights, justice the rule of law and other bs. Compared to that the Chinese are hands down the more benevolent power. Don't go comparing merchants with brigands and murderers.

 

The image below shows the places in Africa where France is busy pillaging and murdering.

screen_shot_2015-01-21_at_2_27_08_pm-2.j

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Your main mistake is that you think that Europeans today still deal with things as they did in the 18th and 19th centuries. Times have changed.

 

Chinese and Europeans (and Americans...) are not doing things any differently when they deal with "stealing" raw resources from Africa. They all call it "trade". They don't need to wage wars anymore.

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Your main mistake is that you think that Europeans today still deal with things as they did in the 18th and 19th centuries. Times have changed.

 

Chinese and Europeans (and Americans...) are not doing things any differently when they deal with "stealing" raw resources from Africa. They all call it "trade". They don't need to wage wars anymore.

Trade does not require armed presence and intervention. The French are trading, in the places shown in the map, at gun point. Just as they did in the 19th century.

 

Among civilized people this kind of trade is called Robery. If its all the same, as you claim, why don't you show me Chinese troops on a rampage in Africa? 

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Guest FriendofGreece

The Chinese have never claimed they are investing in Africa out of the goodness of their heart. It is all business (win-win cooperation). China wants resources, Africa wants infrastructure, hospitals, schools, stadiums, presidential palaces, etc. Whatever Africa wants in exchange for the resources, China builds. Africa does not have anything else to pay for what it wants, so it has to pay with resources. It is up to the African governments to make good deals. Now that China has built a lot of infrastructure, you see Japan, India, the US, the European countries, etc., coming back in droves apart from those who are already there, which increases the leverage of the Africans to make better deals for themselves.  

 

I am surprised the Africans do not publicize this more:

 

http://www.siliconafrica.com/france-colonial-tax/

 

"Did you know many African countries continue to pay colonial tax to France since their independence till today!"

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Guest FriendofGreece

Another article on what the French to do the Africans POST-COLONIZATION.

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/frances-colonial-tax-still-enforced-for-africa-bleeding-africa-and-feeding-france/5547512

 

France’s Colonial Tax Still Enforced for Africa. “Bleeding Africa and Feeding France”

 

Global Research, September 25, 2016
World Bulletin 14 January 2015
 
 

When Guinea demanded independence from French colonial rule in 1958, the French unleashed their fury with more than 3,000 leaving the country taking their enteire property. In addition, they destroyed anything that couldn’t be taken – destroying schools, nurseries, public administration buildings, cars, books, medicine, research institute instruments, tractors were crushed and sabotaged, animals killed and food in warehouses were burned or poisoned. In effect they were sending a message to all other colonies that the consqueences for jrejecting France would be high.

Colonialism as an enduring stain in Africa’s history, and economic oppression continue to exist. An article by Mawuna Remarque Koutonin, peace activist and editor of SiliconAfrica.com addressed this practice.

The article called attention to an ongoing practice by which former African countries are forced to pay a colonial tax to France – even today. In fact, France continues to thrive on the practice, which extracts approximately 500 billion dollars from African countries each year.

france-africa-ivory.jpg

After the French destroyed Guinea who had sought independence, the alternative was to pay a tax. No African country could estimate the effect this had on 14 different countries.

As Koutonin notes, this outrageous tax deprives African economies of much needed funds, exacerbates debt, and strips their authority over their own natural reserves. But the detriments are more than just economic, as the ills of colonialism manifest in social ways that are equally devastating to the dignity and identity of the African people:

Sylvanus Olympio, the first president of the Republic of Togo, instead of signing the colonisation continuation pact with De Gaulle, instead agreed to pay an annual debt to France for the so called benefits of French colonisation. This prevented the French not destroying the country before they left however  the amount estimated by France was so big that the reimbursement of the so called “colonial debt” was close to 40% of the country budget in 1963. Olympio’s dream was to build an independent and self-sufficient and self-reliant country but the French had him killed by a seargeant who was given a $612 bounty by the French embassy.

History has shown that despite years of African fighting to liberate themselves, France repeatedly used many exForeign legionnaires to carry out coups against elected presidents. This included Jean-Bedel Bokassa who assassinated David Dacko, the first President of the Central African Republic. In the last 50 years, a total of 67 coups has occurred in 26 African countries, of which 16 are ex-French colonies. This indicates that France is desperate to hold on to whatever land it has in Africa.

In March 2008, former French President Jacques Chirac said:

“Without Africa, France will slide down into the rank of a third [world] power” and that Chirac’s predecessor François Mitterand already prophesied in 1957 that:

“Without Africa, France will have no history in the 21st century”.

west-africa-french-colonial.jpg

Colonial Tax in the Billions

As of January 2014, 14 african countries are obliged by France, through a colonial pact, to put 85% of their foreign reserve into France central bank under French minister of Finance control.They are effectively putting in 500 Billion dollars every year to the French treasury. African leaders who refuse are killed or victim of coup. Those who obey are supported and rewarded by France with lavish lifestyle while their people endure extreme poverty, and desperation.

There are a number of components of the colonisation pact that has been in effect since the 1950′s. The main points being that the African countries should deposit their national monetary reserves in the France Central Bank. France has been holding the national reserves of fourteen african countries since 1961: Benin, Burkina Faso, Guinea-Bissau, Ivory Coast, Mali, Niger, Senegal, Togo, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Congo-Brazzaville, Equatorial Guinea and Gabon.

Despite the two main African banks having African names, they have no monetary policies of their own. In fact France allows them to access only 15% of the money in any given year. If there is need for any more, they need to borrow the extra money from their own 65% from the French Treasury at commercial rates.

The pact also included claused that Africa had an obligation to make French the official language of the country and the language for education and an obligation to use France colonial money FCFA (the Nordic countries tried unsuccessfully to get rid of this system when they discovered this).Also, they were obliged to send France an annual balance and reserve report. If they refused to send it, they would not be entitled to any money .

Obligation to ally with France in situation of war or global crisis

Over one million Africans soldiers fought for the defeat of nazism and fascism during the second world war. With their contribution ignored or minimised, the French know that Africans could be useful for fighting, which in effect shows that France is psychopathic when it comes to Africa.

The only question that remains unanswered however is when people first reaction when they learn about the french colonial tax is often a question: “Until when?”

Christof Lehmann wrote for nsnbc.me in 2012,

“France is indebting and enslaving Africans by means of Africa’s own wealth; for example: 12.0000 billion invested at three percent creates 360 billion in interests which France grants as credits to Africa at an interest rate of five to six percent or more. The allegory of ‘Bleeding Africa and Feeding France’ is no exaggeration, not alarmist, and not revolutionary.”

 

The original source of this article is World Bulletin
Copyright © World BulletinWorld Bulletin, 2016

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Guest FriendofGreece

New electric Chinese-built railway in Ethiopia:

 

http://www.france24.com/en/20161005-chinese-built-railway-opens-linking-ethiopia-djibouti

 

(In another article, it says the Chinese will be manning the trains for one year, until the Ethopians learn how to take care of it. This article says five years, don't know which one is correct.)

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Guest FriendofGreece

Not to forget that all the European museums are hoarding looted treasures from their colonies and countries they invaded. If you take those looted treasures out of the museums, there is nothing left to show about European culture, OK, maybe some paintings like the Mona Lisa. ;)

 

Some examples of looted treasures:

 

The Parthenon marbles:

 

http://www.britishmuseum.org/about_us/news_and_press/statements/parthenon_sculptures.aspx

 

1.5 million stolen Chinese artefacts are spread among museums mostly in the UK and France:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/6374959/China-to-study-British-Museum-for-looted-artefacts.html

 

Sacking Buddhist treasures on the Silk Road. This book is an excellent read:

 

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/149749.Foreign_Devils_on_the_Silk_Road

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Guest FriendofGreece

The Louvre - Looted artefacts from Sumeria

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXwW-eslSzM

 

The websites of the museums have been changed significantly from the past. Nowadays, they don't show much of the stolen collections, since various countries have been asking for the return of their artefacts. In the past, you could see how proudly they displayed their infinite stolen goods with pictures and descriptions.

 

http://www.louvre.fr/en/departements

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Guest eyoismos

i see the title of the major categories of the quoted  World bulletin and i see .....

 

world - Turkey - Economy - Islamic World - Hajj ..... and all the other standard stuff

 

 

draw your own conclusions about alleged accuracy non-bias and all the rest coming from that website

 

as for stolen artifacts ...  yes and no .... and maybe ........ THEN , whenever then was

 

what comes to mind immediately is those fanatic burst arshole muslim ISIS extremists and the capacity to blow up their own heritages  like temples and artifacts from ancient history

 

but by the same token all those "smart" americans , civilian and military, wherever they have invaded ...to bring democracy ...  stole a shot load of artifacts top take home as souveneirs ... let alone trade with certain "museums"

 

 

point is history and reality is a multifaceted face of bias, in its accuracy

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