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Greeks Protest Over Neighbor’s Use of the Name Macedonia

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ATHENS — Tens of thousands of people gathered in Greece’s second city, Thessaloniki, on Sunday to protest the inclusion of the word “Macedonia” in the name of the neighboring former Yugoslav republic amid talks by the two nations to resolve the longstanding dispute.

Full article here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/21/world/europe/greece-macedonia.html

 

 

 

I can't help but laugh with my fellow Greeks when I see protests of this type. The thing is that most Greeks are pretty much ignorant of their history (in this case, their own family history too), but this doesn't really justify this kind of stupidity.

 

What I'm saying is that this kind of a "nationalistic" themed protest is stupid because I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of the people participating in this specific protest have absolutely nothing to do "racially" with the ancient Macedonians. The vast majority of the people living in Northern Greece these days are mostly people with roots in Asia Minor and also Pontian Greeks.

 

So basically someone with family roots in the Black Sea protests against a bunch of Slavic people who want to call themselves Macedonians (and who may be natives to this specific land, or if not natives at least inhabitants of these lands for much much longer than the protestors' Pontian or Asian Minor ancestors...) while obviously none of the two arguing sides have really anything to do with the ancient Macedonians.

 

It's almost comical if you think about it this way.

 

Saying this, I do not agree with naming this country (FYROM currently) Macedonia, or New Macedonia, or North Macedonia, or name it by whatever other name uses the term "Macedonia" as part of the country name, for other reasons. They can very well call their country "Slavicland" and possibly name their southern province "Slavic Macedonia".

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It was not tens of thousands but hundreds of thousands. The sea promenade was packed all the way from the port down to the Megaro Musikis. You get 10's of thousands in that area on a regular saturday evening I would say there were at the very least 300.000 participants.

Which makes the event an even bigger embarasment. There are 100's of thousands of our compatriots taking the streets cause they think they have the right to dictate what name a neighboring sovereign nation is allowed to use. Never mind the fact that the region was known as Macedonia and its inhabitants as Macedonians through more than 1000 years of Roman history.

Anyhow, the event is a great opportunity for some slimeball to build his political career. I'm talking about general Frangos of course who's playing with the idea of launching a new party. And to think that that idiot was the chief of the Hellenic army! There is no future for that shithole nation of ours.

 

https://youtu.be/TUt-RW09tK4

 

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In a different topic we talked about starting controversial discussions so that we'll kick start some interesting conversations again in the general discussion forum. I don't think there's a more heated topic these days in Greece than this one.

 

Yet, as you can see, no interest by anyone to debate argue about any of this :). All our fellow Greeks are happily downloading or uploading music clips in a different forum. This is much more important to them than thinking and arguing about serious matters.  :P

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In a different topic we talked about starting controversial discussions so that we'll kick start some interesting conversations again in the general discussion forum. I don't think there's a more heated topic these days in Greece than this one.

 

Yet, as you can see, no interest by anyone to debate argue about any of this :). All our fellow Greeks are happily downloading or uploading music clips in a different forum. This is much more important to them than thinking and arguing about serious matters.  :P

lol

 

I disagree with ur premise about the vast majority of greeks in Northern greece being Pontic or from Asia Minor.  Maybe some, but certainly not a vast majority.  And certainly not in Epirus (NW Greece).  Which makes ur conclusion false.

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I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of Greeks in the Macedonia region are of Asia Minor extraction. During the exchange of Greek/Turkish populations in 1922, most Greeks from Asia Minor settled in the Macedonia region and also in and around Athens and Piraeus. 

 

From personal experience, all the people I know from Thessaloniki or northern Greece are all from Asia Minor background one way or another. All of them.

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No, there were Greeks there too of course, but they were most likely the minority, especially in many small towns/villages. The influx of all the Greeks from Asia Minor though changed the balance.

 

In any case, I think it's a cause of concern to allow FYROM to use the term "Macedonia" in any shape or form, and Greece shouldn't allow this.

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About Greeks in Macedonia, while they were the majority during the Balkan wars, there were sizable minorities of Slavs, Turks, Jews in Thessaloniki, and others. The influx of Greeks from Asia Minor and Pontus definitely changed the demographics, not just in Macedonia, but most of central Greece, northern Greece including several large Athenian neighborhoods and "suburbs". For historical reasons during this time of the year I am always reading about them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Greeks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minorities_in_Greece

 

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"Macedonia" is a complex region. What we Greeks call "Macedonia" today - the Greek portion of ancient Macedonia - has been under Ottoman rules for centuries and until it was ceded to Greece after the Balkan Wars and WWI (100 years ago!).

People who live in Greek Macedonia today (and identify themselves as Greeks) have most likely very little to do with the ancient Macedonians of Alexander the Great's time (who did indeed speak Greek and identified themselves as Greek too).

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this situation does not allow for any winners. At the end of the day smart and educated people know what is what, and the masses will be confused about the topic.

 

I did not support Syriza, would not have voted for them, at the end they are another Pasok, and  lets not kid our selves ND has been mostly a failure. When it comes to Macedonia they all failed! But 26 years later this is as close to the best any Greek government could have done. And an argument could have been made that PASOK & ND should have taken care of this back in the 70s and 80s with Yugoslavia, before things got out of hand. Another big reason this has not gone so well is Greeks political polarization, in a country like the US there is a price to pay for politics being applied on national issues, in Greece it has often been disastrous, they infighted  during almost every major war and during every national travesty.  Look at the Greek Economy disaster, at the end, ND, PASOK and now Tsipras have done as the EU (Germans) and IMF has ordered them to do, every single one of them, yet as opposition parties they have all been obstructionists and making false promises while providing no solutions, at the end of the day Greek voters have put them in place and have tolerated stupidity and party over country thinking.

 

http://www.ekathimerini.com/229710/opinion/ekathimerini/comment/lets-move-forward-at-last

 

 

 

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The reality is that at this point in time Greece has nothing to gain from this agreement. Absolutely nothing. FYROM however, stands to gain a lot (including a possible inclusion in the EU etc.). The timing of all this is strange too. Greece is dealing with other more pressing issues, including the relations with Turkey, internal strife, unemployment etc. etc.

One wonders then, why the SYRIZA government decided to make this a priority in their agenda these days? More so when they have really nothing to gain from this politically. This will, in fact, do more damage to them than good as this is a very sensitive issue for most Greeks, SYRIZA supporters included.

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To answer your priority question, this has more to do with pressure from the US & EU, they want FYROM under the influence of the west, and not Russia. Just hope that Greece made a smart deal with the EU and the US. One other thing factoring is that Greece and the US are cozying up, all because Turkey is being difficult with American interests (S-400 missile system, comments about Israel, Syria,...), but all this is potentially temporary. Tsipras seems like he is always eager to please leaders from more powerful nations.

I agree there are more pressing issues, not sure if they can fix them. The economy will take many more years, and the Turks are unwilling to be civilized and moral. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_naming_dispute
 

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been following this issue from day one, had a whole folder of bookmarks that I have not visited in a long time, 9-10 years, interesting all of the Greek links I had saved dedicated on the topic did not work, that tells you something by itself 

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Greek gov’t survives vote of no confidence but loses an MP

http://www.ekathimerini.com/229747/article/ekathimerini/news/greek-govt-survives-vote-of-no-confidence-but-loses-an-mp

 

Poll73.2 percent of respondents said they disagree with the use of the term “Macedonia”

http://www.ekathimerini.com/229746/article/ekathimerini/news/seven-in-10-greeks-opposed-to-north-macedonia-poll-shows

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What happened today should be a political suicide for Tsipras. It's really beyond comprehension why he personally pushed for this agreement to move forward so quickly knowing full well that the majority of Greeks do not agree with this.

There must be more in play here, other than pressure from the EU and US. Also, it's sad that this dispute was resolved so quickly - and not to our benefit or advantage - while the issue in Cyprus is ongoing for decades and nobody has shown any real interest to push Turkey to resolve it. I guess Greece is easy to push around (especially the Tsipras government as it seems...).

I'm pretty certain that what happened today will bite us in the ass one day. There have been countless useless politicians who have hurt Greece one way or the other over the years, but Tsipras and his government have done more damage in the few years they're in power than all other useless politician put together in decades. I can't blame the Greek people for falling for this crook as I fell for Syriza too hoping that they'd really do things differently and bring real change. We didn't expect that Tsipras and his crew would end up being so incompetent.

 

 

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22 ώρες πριν, Dino είπε:

Greek gov’t survives vote of no confidence but loses an MP

http://www.ekathimerini.com/229747/article/ekathimerini/news/greek-govt-survives-vote-of-no-confidence-but-loses-an-mp

 

Poll73.2 percent of respondents said they disagree with the use of the term “Macedonia”

http://www.ekathimerini.com/229746/article/ekathimerini/news/seven-in-10-greeks-opposed-to-north-macedonia-poll-shows

What's shocking is that 16.5 percent of the respondents of this poll are still planning to vote for Syriza. The stupidity of some people is beyond belief. 

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On 6/17/2018 at 6:13 PM, admin said:

What happened today should be a political suicide for Tsipras. It's really beyond comprehension why he personally pushed for this agreement to move forward so quickly knowing full well that the majority of Greeks do not agree with this.

There must be more in play here, other than pressure from the EU and US. Also, it's sad that this dispute was resolved so quickly - and not to our benefit or advantage - while the issue in Cyprus is ongoing for decades and nobody has shown any real interest to push Turkey to resolve it. I guess Greece is easy to push around (especially the Tsipras government as it seems...).

I'm pretty certain that what happened today will bite us in the ass one day. There have been countless useless politicians who have hurt Greece one way or the other over the years, but Tsipras and his government have done more damage in the few years they're in power than all other useless politician put together in decades. I can't blame the Greek people for falling for this crook as I fell for Syriza too hoping that they'd really do things differently and bring real change. We didn't expect that Tsipras and his crew would end up being so incompetent.

 

 

Perfectly said.  Totally incompetent.  The one country in the region that you have some power over, and you STILL let them walk all over you.

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This is all bullshit. The reality is this:

Skopjie did get what they wanted in terms of the name (North Macedonia). This may open a can of warms in the future if (most likely when...) a more conservative/nationalistic prime minister comes into power again in FYROM. If there's a North Macedonia then surely there's a South Macedonia which should be seceded from Greece and join their "North" Macedonia brethren.

People of North Macedonia are not going to be called North Macedonians (as they should). Instead, for some strange reason, they'll be just called Macedonians. I guess the next question is, what's going to happen to the Greek Macedonians living in the region of Macedonia (Greece). What are they going to be called? On top of this, there is a number of Greek products in the market for decades using the "Macedonia" name (Macedonian wines, various Macedonian good etc.) all produced in the Macedonia region of Greece. What's going to happen to all these products and companies now if the term "Macedonian" can only refer to people or products of FYROM? Expect this to become a major issue soon.

There's much more than this, of course, this is just the surface. I can safely bet that this whole thing is going to come back and bite us Greeks in the ass very soon. Tsipras and his cronies will be long gone by then of course, but the damage they inflicted in the Greek psyche is unimaginable.

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Admin I agree, FYROM may elect another PM idiot in the future, they had a corrupt idiot not to long ago.

Here is an interesting editorial/commentary from to Slavs

 

http://www.ekathimerini.com/230084/opinion/ekathimerini/comment/a-time-to-strengthen-ties-with-friendship

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