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Guest FriendofGreece

Should the children of migrants go to Greek schools?

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Guest FriendofGreece

Greece is trying to send the children of migrants to Greek schools. There has been resistance from Greek parents out of various fears, including fear of sicknesses and differing cultures. Local governments have been vocal against the Greek parents.

 

Ultimately, the rights of the Greeks have been subordinated to the rights of illegal migrant invaders. If those migrant children have to be educated, I don't see why that can't be done at the camps. Learning Greek (if they are even interested), Math and English or another European language of the country where they want to go to does not require integration in regular Greek schools.

 

Until their asylum requests in Greece have been accepted, Greece has no obligation towards them. These are people just waiting to go to rich European countries, they bring nothing to Greece but misery.

 

Greeks often say that their ancestors were refugees too. The difference is that when the Greeks came from Anatolia, they were Greeks going back to their motherland, they were not illegal invaders.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/26/world/europe/greece-migrant-children-school.html

 

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Children should go to school, period. If those migrants are planning to stay in Greece then their kids should go to Greek schools and get an education as every other child in Greece. If they're planning to eventually move elsewhere in Europe then "special" schools should be setup for them to provide them with an education in the interim, and while they're waiting to be forwarded to a different European country.

 

It's to the benefit of everyone involved to educate these kids. It would be a shame and a crime to leave them without an education.

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Guest FriendofGreece

I agree if the children migrants have been accepted for asylum in Greece and stay in Greece, then they can have education. However, the education should be given in separate schools to start with, for many years, as they don't speak Greek and a lot of them have never been school before so they have a lot of catch up to do. Furthermore, if they are not properly housed but live in the streets or in camps, putting them with the Greek students would subject the Greek students to potential sicknesses, not to talk about the differences in cultures, thefts, violence, etc.

 

As for the rest who have not been given asylum rights in Greece yet or should be deported, let the NGO's take care of them. Almost all the money the EU gives to help Greece about the migrants is paid to the NGO's, the Greek government does not receive anything. If the Greek government has to pay to educate these migrant children (they already have to hire 800 more teachers), there will be cuts to the resources available to the Greek students.

 

The issue boils down to: Do you disadvantage and put at risk the Greek students, who are already subject to many cuts and sacrifices, for the benefit of children of illegal invaders who have absolutely no intention to remain in Greece, who riot and burn camps (Lesbos) when they don't get what they want, etc.?

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One cannot punish the children for the stupid actions of adults. These kids need to have an education. Period. Some of them - mostly the younger one - could go to regular Greek schools. Children absorb information and learn new languages easily when they're young. For the older ones they should setup special schools and depending on their situation either teach them Greek or bring teachers speaking their language to teach them in their own language.

 

I understand the possible differences in culture, but where did you get the "thefts and violence" thing? Why would children steal or be violent? As far as illnesses go. If someone is ill they should be taken to the hospital. 

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What other schools should they go to?

Should Greece establish Syrian, Afghan, Pakistani schools instead?

Or should we keep them kids out of school?

 

Once they are in the country we have to do whatever we can to integrate them as best as posible into our society. If we fail to do so we are toast.

I'm not very optimistic that we will succeed though. Greece carries to much bagage for this to happen.

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The situation of these migrants is tricky as most of them are not looking to stay in Greece, they're in transit. So in their case there's no good reason why they'd be integrated into the Geek society (which is in dire straits these days anyway...).

 

For those who want to stay yes, their kids should absolutely go to Greek schools and be integrated to the Greek society, but for the rest the EU has to provide for some kind of education while they're in limbo. This education will have to be provided in their language for the time being and until it's decided where they'll be going next.

 

It would be irresponsible for everyone involved to leave these children without an education as this may bite Europe (and Greece...) in the butt in the future.

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The situation of these migrants is tricky as most of them are not looking to stay in Greece, they're in transit. So in their case there's no good reason why they'd be integrated into the Geek society (which is in dire straits these days anyway...).

 

For those who want to stay yes, their kids should absolutely go to Greek schools and be integrated to the Greek society, but for the rest the EU has to provide for some kind of education while they're in limbo. This education will have to be provided in their language for the time being and until it's decided where they'll be going next.

 

It would be irresponsible for everyone involved to leave these children without an education as this may bite Europe (and Greece...) in the butt in the future.

The problem with that approach can is: The future is uncertain.

 

Who knows for how long are they going to stay in Greece. European countries with the exception of Germany are not eager to take them in and even the Germans are reluctant. The latest electoral debacle for Merkel may result in many of those kids remaining in Greece indefinetely. So we have to be proactive and provide education to those kids. Otherwise 5 to 10 years down the road we could end up with tens of thousands of Imam educated young male fanatics who despise us. If we refuse to educate them Radical Islam will.

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Guest FriendofGreece

Not Syrian, Pakistani, etc. schools but migrant schools:

  • in the camps for those children who do not have or do not yet have asylum rights, and
  • in different buildings than regular Greek schools for those who have asylum rights.

Thefts and violence? Children who have nothing will steal when they see things. (The article in the link says the youths steal bicycles.) These children have lived with violence and abuse and their behaviour will be affected no doubt. 

 

Greece feels there is an obligation to educate them. The thing is many of those migrants (adults) have not been educated themselves and probably their children have never been educated neither. We have Syrians "refugees" who came in Canada and a lot of them don't even know how to read and write their own language. Just because these illegal migrants crossed the sea now the education of these children somehow becomes Greece's responsibility. If Greece were a rich country, there is no problem to educate them all. But as I said, what you give to the migrants you take away from the Greek children. 

 

There is a lot of fears about those people not integrating and radicalizing if we don't build them a mosque, if we don't educate them, if we don't give them the jobs they want, etc. No matter how much you give those people, it is never enough.  

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/26/world/europe/greece-migrant-children-school.html

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Guest FriendofGreece

So little is being discussed about the unrestricted growth of the population in those countries but maybe that is the biggest threat to humans in the near future as people scramble for resources.

 

Just as an example, you just wonder why refugees keep having more and more children in camps, expecting the host countries to shoulder the burden:

 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/birth-rate-of-syrians-in-turkey-surpasses-that-of-turkish-citizens.aspx?pageID=238&nID=106149&NewsCatID=341

 

In Germany, there was recently an uproar of a Syrian man with 4 wives and 22 kids, getting $400,000 per year in benefits. He cannot work because the religion says he has a duty to visit all of his wives evenly.

 

In Canada, a few months ago, we had a similar story with a Syrian man with 3 wives and 20 kids, receiving more than $200,000 in benefits (if I remember well), saying the same excuse why he cannot work. He thinks it is a business and is intent to make some more kids. In Denmark, another similar story.

 

I understand that in countries like Canada, the birth rate is low, but still we should limit "refugees" to one wife only and her kids. If you see a man with a wife and many kids and other women whom they say are sisters or cousins of the wife, then it is almost a sure bet those are other wives. Disgusting to say the least.  

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These are extreme cases, and I don't doubt that they may exist. Our societies are complex but their rules are mostly based on what makes sense to local populations. Enter a new group of people with different morals, way of life etc. and the balance changes. The rules and laws that worked for years may not make sense anymore and may have to change and adjust to the new reality.

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These are extreme cases, and I don't doubt that they may exist. Our societies are complex but their rules are mostly based on what makes sense to local populations. Enter a new group of people with different morals, way of life etc. and the balance changes. The rules and laws that worked for years may not make sense anymore and may have to change and adjust to the new reality.

Exactly. The LAW is not an absolute. It is nothing more than a formalized record of the societal consensus within the domain it governs. As populations change so do principles, values, and ultimately laws.  This happened before.

 

When the Romans destroyed the Temple of Jerusalem in the 1st Century, refugees from Judea came to Anatolia and Greece. They brought with them their own values and principles. About 200 years latter the Greek Temples, Theaters, Museums, and Schools were no more. The followers of Greek customs were prosecuted and driven into extinction. The messianic Jewish sect known as Orthodoxy took form and has been the defining force in Greece ever since.

 

The parallels are interesting.

We were a province of the Roman empire then.

We are a province of the 4th incarnation of the Roman Empire now.

Intervention of Rom in Near Eastern affairs caused the refugee streams then.

Involvement of New Rome in regime chance in the Middle East is causing them now.

 

History has a way to repeat itself. 

 

 

FoG:

So little is being discussed about the unrestricted growth of the population in those countries but maybe that is the biggest threat to humans in the near future as people scramble for resources.

 

 

Unless mortality rates rise, within the next 30 years, to a level that eliminates 3-4 bil people from the projections this planet is toast. Like it or not, that's just how it is.

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Guest FriendofGreece

If you change the laws of a country to accomodate deviations of a minority, assuming the many-wives-and-children are extreme cases, it seems to me you would keep changing your laws. I think before changing anything, you would have to ask whether based on your principles and values, you accept those deviations. Otherwise, you would be accepting deviations contrary to your principles and values. Is it the way to go forward or backward in society? Soon these people will ask for sharia law, mosques and halal food everywhere, maybe even destruction of your churches. By then, it would be too late to backtrack.

 

Yes, history has a way of repeating itself, but only if you allow it. 

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well, we already have Sharia law in Greece. Since the treaty of Lausanne the affairs of the Turkish minority in Thrace are governed by Sharia courts.

There is still a clause that requires their judgments not to violate Greek Law but it is a matter of time until that requirement is dropped. And with the growing Muslim minorities in metropolitan areas it is also a matter of time until the regulation will be extended beyond Thrace.

If 100.000 Muslims take the streets in Athens demanding it... they will get it.

 

Yes, you said "only IF you allow it" but do you realize the severity of this statement?

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Guest FriendofGreece

I don't know about the treaty of Lausanne but if it was there at the time of the population exchange, then Greece was put before the fact and did not have the right to make a decision then. Why would the requirement that their judgements not violate Greek law be dropped be allowed? They live on Greek land and should be subject to overall Greek law.

 

100,000 Muslims trying to overpower milions of Greeks? The government should not allow a minority to impose things contrary to Greek law. 

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Guest FriendofGreece

I don't understand why Western countries have so much trouble with the Muslim minorities that are imposing things on them. Here is an article how Muslims are treated in China as a minority.

 

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/02/meet-chinas-state-approved-muslims-hui-linxia-beijing-compromise/

 

Can't Western countries control better their Muslim minorities? I know in Xinjiang (China), the Uyghurs (Muslim Turkics) create problems, but I think the government is trying to control them through various means.

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100,000 Muslims trying to overpower milions of Greeks? The government should not allow a minority to impose things contrary to Greek law.

You still don't understand the severity of your statement.

If it comes to that how do you stop them?

Gonna settle that in a town hall meeting?

Or are you gonna fight? If so to what extend? To whatever extend it takes?

Don't ever say things like "Stop Them" unless you are determined to go all the way. Otherwise accept defeat and let it be.

 

Greece would disintegrate if 1000 armed and organized people would challenge it. Our police is just for show. They have no authorization to use force and receive no training to do so. There aren't even any clear rules of engagement that spell out under which circumstances an Officer in Greece is authorized to use force. That's why Greek cops look always "lost" and have no idea what to do in crisis situations.

 

The only ones in Greece who are authorized to use force are members of a small mercenary special police force who are directly under the command of the Ministry of public order. They run around in balaclavas and most of them aren't even Greeks. Their job is to protect the Government or rather "Regime".

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Guest FriendofGreece

The problem in Greece about what the police can do or not is huge, and I don't know if it is specific to Greece. I am very aware of the severity of my statement, but if Greece cannot handle the problem, it is another thing. It does not change the issue that things are getting out of hand because you don't control it at the starting point

 

If you look at the Middle East countries, there is no way they would allow Westerners, or anyone else for that matter, accept to dictate to them what to do. Imagine going to Saudi Arabia and ask that Catholic churches be established, or that restaurants must serve pork, wines, etc., (I assume these are forbidden there) for the Western minorities that live there. There is no way they will accept. The Saudis do not even accept Syrian "refugees" despite those being their brethen.

 

Why does Europe accept the Muslim invasion? Thus, if you allow them to come, if you allow them to change your laws, well, to me, it is up to you to stop allowing them to come, stop allowing them to change your laws. Beef up your police force, give them the proper powers, otherwise you lose your country to them.

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Guest FriendofGreece

The bitching is a starting point because the people start realizing some things. How you go about wrestling back the control of your country is for deliberation.

 

Certainly, Europe should start by protecting its borders better, and this by helping border countries like Greece and Italy instead of making them bearing the brunt of the invasion and erecting fences. The patrolling EU Frontex should push back the migrants instead of "saving" them as a starting point. These are people who puncture their boats ,etc, to be saved. Why fall into their trap? Manage first the incoming waves before managing those who are already inside.

 

Greece does not have to take what comes passively. Hopefully, your ancestors did not make sacrifices for nothing. Don't give up your country so easily, you have only one.

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I have no country. I just happened to be born in Greece cause my Anatolian ancestors were driven out of my homeland and ended up as refugees in that shit hole that is called Greece.

 

That aside, you've spoken like a true Canadian Hero. Bitch, bitch, bitch... until the nanny comes to take care of whatever it is that bothers you. What the hell do you need to deliberate about? Have you ever been in a fight? You either kick, punch, smack or you turn tail and run. There is nothing in between.

 

If Greece wants to stop the next refugee stream they'll have to line up their security forces and kick, punch, club whomever comes across. And if that's not enough, escalate to guns. That's how standing your ground looks in reality. It is messy, it is ugly, and it has to be brutal enough to make people turn tail and seek refugee in the war zone they just came from. Do the Greeks have the will to do that? If not they should shut the fuck up and acquaint themselves with the new realities. Man up or shut up, as they say here in Texas.

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It's not as simple as that. There are international laws that have to be followed. Greece is part of the EU and it has to follow laws and regulations agreed upon by all EU members.

 

Greece can't unilaterally do whatever they want with the refugees flocking to the Greek shores. Also, there's the humanitarian side of things too. You can't just kick, punch and club women, children and elderly even if they're illegal immigrants.

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It's not as simple as that. There are international laws that have to be followed. Greece is part of the EU and it has to follow laws and regulations agreed upon by all EU members.

 

Greece can't unilaterally do whatever they want with the refugees flocking to the Greek shores. Also, there's the humanitarian side of things too. You can't just kick, punch and club women, children and elderly even if they're illegal immigrants.

Yes. Of course: The EU,

just paid Erdogan 3 bil Euros to have his boys do the punching, kicking and shoving to keep the refugees from making it to Greece.

And his boys are doing a stellar job. Arrivals went from 150 K a month down to 5 K a month.

 

And remember how the EU reprimanded those Macedonians for doing the kicking, punching, hosing and tear-gassing? But then again the Macedonians are descendants of Phillip and Alexander they wont let some EU slimes tell them what they can and can not do in their country.

 

Anyhow, I'm value free and completely impartial on the matter. If Greece wants to stem the flow she has to act forcefully, otherwise shut up take them in and provide for them. It really is that simple. And don't expect, after last years experience, aunt Angie to take them of your hands when Tajip orders his boys to take it easy and watch millions cross over.

 

You do realize that Greece would have collapsed last year if Angie hadn't taken 1 mil of those good people of our hands and if Tajip didn't have his boys out in force stemming the flood. Well, Angie and her peasants had it with refugees and Tajip had it with the Euro fags, especialy the progresive lefty ones, who just voted against Turkey in the EU parliament. And he's already floating the Idea of renegotiating treaties. All that he needs to do now to destabilize Greece is: NOTHING.

 

Just sit back relax and watch Greece being flooded with Muslim refugees. Put a few provocateurs in the mix and let things go their way. Greece will fall apart in no time.

 

petroulakis24-thumb-large.jpg

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Guest FriendofGreece

Hmmm, really, never had the nanny take care of whatever bothers me, why should it?

 

"Bitching" is an unwarranted word for merely expressing a point of view. One thing I find surprising is why Greeks do not talk about the migrants issue, it is as if it does not exist. 

 

I did mention to beef up the Greek police and give them power though. 

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