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Would you support a return to the Megali Idea as well as a more nationalistic Greece?

Megali Idea Greater Greece

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#41 ajaxmonkey

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Posted 03 October 2016 - 09:15 PM

Come on now, are you kidding me? Not all atrocities are of the religious type.
You can start here: http://www.independe...rs-2081630.html
 
There was also a little-known Chinese - Indian war in the 1960's. I've heard it through an Indian friend so I know his side of the story (which of course blames the Chinese for everything)
 
There was recently some issue and Chinese military aggression in the south sea.
 
There's also the well-known aggression against Taiwan and Tibet.
 
Continue Googling your way through...I'm sure you can find way more than this.
 
Nations (or kings/rulers in earlier times) become aggressive when they feel that they have the power to force their views/interests on others. This has very little to do with religion. Religious subversion is usually an added bonus.


Are you really so dense or are you just pretending?

Ok. China had a border conflict with neighboring India that let to a minor war. And who was it that was holding India as a colony and squeezing out its resources for some 200 Years?

Was it not Brits who would take Indian cotton for next to nothing to run their cloth mills back in distant England?
Was it not the English Crown that would levy taxes on Indians for boiling salt out of the waters of the Indian Ocean?
How many attrocities did the English commit in India?

And while in posession of India they waged two wars on China to force the Chinese to buy the opium the Brits produced in India.

And as they saw that they can't longer hold on to India they stocked religious tensions that led to the split between India and Pakistan in accordance with the divide and conquer maxim. The results of the split are still lingering in Kashmir.

We are talking about outward attitudes of civilizations here. Lets compare those of China to those of Great Britain on the base of historic events in the Indian subcontinent. The only picture that can emerge is that of China as a peacefull giant and Britain as a pitbull on rabies.

And you can tally the score on any other theater in the world and pit China against any western nation, Spaniards, French, Portugese, Dutch, Belgians, Italians, Germans, Amricans. The outcome will always be the same.

#42 FriendofGreece

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 12:22 AM

Ajaxmonkey, that story about Zhuangzi and the turtle is pretty cool, I agree. I don't read much about Chinese philosophy, but I think I am going to start reading some. I took a look about Zhuangzi, he seemed to have many stories with animals. It reminds me Aesop's Fables.



#43 FriendofGreece

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 01:09 AM

The war between India and China. This author is amazingly honest. 

 

http://www.outlookin...or-in-62/282579

 

This is something I learned as I have been following news from Indian and China over the years. Indians are extremely agressively negative about and jealous of China and Chinese people. If you read comments under Indian articles, they always call the Chinese people Chinks. On the other hand, there is in general no animosity by the Chinese towards Indians, for the simple reason that the Chinese do not think about the Indians, the Indians simply not being in the radar of the Chinese, they have other things more important to think about.

 

India is warmongering in the South China Sea where it has absolutely no claim:

 

http://nationalinter...ould-fear-17491

 

India going overboard by moving Missiles along border with China:

 

https://sputniknews....e-missiles.html



#44 ajaxmonkey

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 01:25 AM

Ajaxmonkey, that story about Zhuangzi and the turtle is pretty cool, I agree. I don't read much about Chinese philosophy, but I think I am going to start reading some. I took a look about Zhuangzi, he seemed to have many stories with animals. It reminds me Aesop's Fables.


Indeed the stories are very similar to those of Aesop whom I also love.

#45 FriendofGreece

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 01:25 AM

I don't fully know the facts but I think Taiwan was a province of China. The Japanese took it during a period after a war (as per the article below) and I think the Chinese took it back after. The Kuomintang (KMT) government (I think the government that wanted to establish democracy in China) ran to Taiwan on exile after being defeated by the new Communist party government under Mao. The KMT established a new government in Taiwan. When you think about it, the Taiwanese are actually Chinese from mainland China, they are not even cousins, they are brothers. 

 

http://www.economist...ist-explains-16



#46 FriendofGreece

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 01:27 AM

Yes, Aesop's fables are so full of wisdom. In French literature (do you read French?), there are the Fables de (Jean) Lafontaine which are in the line of Aesop's Fables.



#47 FriendofGreece

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 01:35 AM

The South China Sea ...

 

https://sputniknews....eal-secret.html



#48 ajaxmonkey

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 01:56 AM

Yes, Aesop's fables are so full of wisdom. In French literature (do you read French?), there are the Fables de (Jean) Lafontaine which are in the line of Aesop's Fables.


I don't speak French unfortunately. I'm fluent in German, Greek, English, proficient in Spanish, can read basic Russian and have a very limited grasp on Japanese.

#49 FriendofGreece

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 02:07 AM

Tibet and China, a complicated story. 

 

http://www.case.edu/...b/f_affairs.htm

 

By the way, under the old Tibetan rule, the Tibetans lived like serfs. There was a very good article on how life was under serfdom that I read years ago, if anyone is interested, maybe they could google to find it. I think it was a female author who visited Tibet and wrote the article, quite long and quite descriptive.



#50 FriendofGreece

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 02:08 AM

Ajaxmonkey, you already speak more languages than an average person.



#51 FriendofGreece

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 02:21 AM

Admin - I don't know why you posted the article about Mao, that is an internal thing. 



#52 FriendofGreece

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 02:32 AM

The Fables of Lafontaine in English - for you, Ajaxmonkey, I hope you like them. The impact of reading them in English will not be the same, but I hope the gist of the story is there.

 

http://www.la-fontai...langlalphab.htm



#53 ajaxmonkey

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Posted 04 October 2016 - 05:39 AM

The Fables of Lafontaine in English - for you, Ajaxmonkey, I hope you like them. The impact of reading them in English will not be the same, but I hope the gist of the story is there.
 
http://www.la-fontai...langlalphab.htm

Thanks for the link friend. Much appreciated.

#54 eyoismos

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 07:56 PM

Eyo mentioned instances of Chinese internal conflicts as if I had mentioned the 100 year war, the 30 year war or any orher internal European conflicts.


185,250–3,000,000 – Hundred Years' War
 
3,000,000–11,500,000 - thirty year war ... a european war ...not exactly a single "nation"
 
and yet ... three kingdoms war ... almost 40 million
 
very appropriate comparison as equivalent by yourself
 
ultimately though ALL wars are about enforcing one's will, ideals, philosophies ,,,,blah balh balh ... but in reality they are all about land, resources, control etc
and religion has fuck-all to do with them ...apart from being an rabid excuse to justify to the people why they are off to die for king and country, or emperor or whatever ...so they governing elite can have their luxuries and bloated egos and what not
 
there is no difference between the human nature of europeans, or asians or whatever. they are all ultimately pretty much the same ....and you can argue about who is the best or worse till the cows come home ...but then only fools would do that, for only fools would not recognise that the only difference is place in history
 
and to prove my point ....
 
China in Africa: The New Imperialists? http://www.newyorker...ew-imperialists
 
 
 



#55 ajaxmonkey

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 08:36 PM

185,250–3,000,000 – Hundred Years' War
 
3,000,000–11,500,000 - thirty year war ... a european war ...not exactly a single "nation"
 
and yet ... three kingdoms war ... almost 40 million
 
very appropriate comparison as equivalent by yourself
 
ultimately though ALL wars are about enforcing one's will, ideals, philosophies ,,,,blah balh balh ... but in reality they are all about land, resources, control etc
and religion has fuck-all to do with them ...apart from being an rabid excuse to justify to the people why they are off to die for king and country, or emperor or whatever ...so they governing elite can have their luxuries and bloated egos and what not
 
there is no difference between the human nature of europeans, or asians or whatever. they are all ultimately pretty much the same ....and you can argue about who is the best or worse till the cows come home ...but then only fools would do that, for only fools would not recognise that the only difference is place in history
 
and to prove my point ....
 
China in Africa: The New Imperialists? http://www.newyorker...ew-imperialists

 
 
Eyo mentioned instances of Chinese internal conflicts as if I had mentioned the 100 year war, the 30 year war or any orher internal European conflict.

#56 eyoismos

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 02:37 PM

.100 year war and 30 year war wasnt even in the cards UNTIL you mentioned them ... which only proves that you DID mention them

 

but that is not the point

 

the point is that the chinese throughout history is NO different .... and to be honest , living in africa one sees the other face of the chinese .... regularly

 

and the article i pointed to confirms it even more than my own experiences

 

and that is just the chinese ...who ultimately prove to be just as racist, for example,  as the europeans , or the indigenous populations

 

hiding it better from the surface makes absolutely no difference whatsoever .... EVERYBODY, without exception, wants what "the others" have, be it power, land, resources, influence, whatever .... EVERYBODY plays "the game" using their own "sets of rules" , priorities and importance are ...well.... different ... according to perspectives



#57 ajaxmonkey

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Posted 06 October 2016 - 09:24 PM

You love to argue against reason. Well, lets tally:

 

Congo:

Belgians: slaughter in the millions, anihilation of villages for not delivering on ruber quotas, forcefull conversions to Catholicism.

China: No involvement

 

Namibia:

Germany: slaughter of the Herero, documented genocidal orders for no reason at all.

China: No Involvement.

 

Abesynia:

Italy: use of poison gas on civilians, murder and oppresion for the purpose of pillage.

China: No involvement

 

Algeria:

France: Slaughter in the millions in persuit of imperial ambitions.

China:No involvement.

 

Angola:

Portugese: Slaughter and oppression for the purpose of Pillage

China: No involvement

 

Mozambique:

Portugese: Slaughter and oppression for the purpose of Pillage

China: No involvement

 
the list goes on and on.....
So where exactly does that sentiment, satyr expressed, come from that "Europe" must be united to save the world from the evil Chinese?
If the Chinese were half as agressive as the Europeans, a great part of the world would be Taoist today. But this isn't the case even in Chinas immidiate neighborhood or in China. Foreign faiths such as Buddhism, Islam, Christianity can be found in China and her vicinity. While Europe prosecuted everything that was not Christianity into extinction in her own territory and almost all teritories she conquered.
 
Perhaps you are so blinded by the notion of European (aka Judeo-Christian) superiority that the facts don't even register with you. European arrogance is the one true evil the world has to get rid of.


#58 eyoismos

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 05:56 AM

holly fuck ... where did i say European superiority you dumb ass ?

 

all i said is they/we , humans, are all the same, irrespective of color, creed, or whatever

 

 

and while we are at it ... belgians an ethicity ? seriously ? and that but an example

 

not to mention that the respective armies include many of the indigenous people, albeit from opposing tribes ..and we are talking africa here alone

 

 

or for the fact that ... well .. to put it into perspective ... why you think they are so many "muslims" in france ... mostly from algeria? oh wait ... the algerians where fighting as well ..to conquer algeria, ... on behalf of the french

 

some people are so naive as to not see the broader picture .... and the broader picture is .... yup ... they tossers on top of the food chain ...which so happen to be often of european extraction

 

while we are at it ... ever heard of ... Caracalla  ? a black emperor of rome .... pretty weird if you ask me ... rome governed my an african, and black no less

 

and sure the chinese didnt get involved THEN  .... and in the same way either ...they operate differently , and in different areas

apart from the numbers of population they had to slaughter ... which are quite comparable to the individual so called ethnicities of the individual european "ethinicites", if not worse .... ESPECIALLY NOW in africa

 

its all about firepower ... the chinese may have invented gunpowder, but the european perfected it, and in many ways are STILL leaps and bounds ahead of the so called opposition .... that was in those days.... today its about technology and money .... and yes ... the chines are behind ...barely ... but the "notion" of "european" are still ahead by a mile

 

for the time being and in this part of history



#59 admin

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 11:19 PM

 

Perhaps you are so blinded by the notion of European (aka Judeo-Christian) superiority that the facts don't even register with you. European arrogance is the one true evil the world has to get rid of.

 

 

Reality is that most ethnic groups regard themselves as superior as compared to their neighbours. We know this since ancient times, since the time we have recorded history. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that even before that time, when people were living in caves,small bands of people or families  would most likely think themselves as superior to other bands or families living nearby. And if they'd have the means (if they were physically stronger, if they had better weapons etc.) they would certainly make sure to enforce their "superiority" to everyone around them.

 

In short, I'd agree with eyoismos on this. This is human nature. Has nothing to do with race, religion or anything else. Given an opportunity most human beings would enforce their "imaginary superiority" to others.

 

Europeans had the means to do it since the 1400-1500's as they had more advanced weaponry than their opponents in all other continents. In the Americas whole civilizations were wiped out before the Europeans got there. In Asia the Mongols invaded China several times and wiped out millions of people. The same with the Japanese who invaded several areas in Asia and killed millions of people. The Chinese invaded Tibet in recent times, and also Korea and Vietnam (both in recent and ancient times).

 

So saying that Europeans are "evil" and the Chinese or other Asians are "saint" doesn't really make much sense.



#60 FriendofGreece

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Posted 08 October 2016 - 05:48 AM

http://www.afr.com/n...20160815-gqsrky

 

"Giant role in developing Africa

An insight into how OBOR might work can be gained from the remarkable success China has so far achieved in its economic engagement with Africa. China now plays a pivotal role, largely because of its no-nonsense, non-judgmental, can-do approach.

Examples of China's infrastructure prowess in Africa abound, from a new deep water port in Kenya, to railways throughout East Africa and roads and hospitals in Guinea-Bissau. Elsewhere there is a lengthening list of new roads, hospitals, ­airports, power stations, railways and schools springing up with billboards ­featuring Chinese aid organisations.

They are providing an infrastructure that could help Africa emerge from half a century of mendicant state status and a litany of wars, starvation, pestilence and rampant corruption. From a paltry $US1 billion in bilateral trade 35 years ago, Chinese-African trade and investment flows have risen an astonishing 200-fold.

At the same time China is strengthening its grip on resources and political goodwill in an Africa with abundant reserves of oil, gas, iron ore, coal, copper, gold, diamonds and uranium, plus enormous potential to contribute to global food security.

Fitch Ratings has estimated that China's Export-Import Bank extended $US67.2 billion in loans to sub-Saharan African countries between 2001 and 2010 – $US12.5 billion more than the World Bank. The figures are potentially stratospheric, with the Export-Import Bank of China forecasting a few years ago that by 2025, China will have provided Africa with $US1 trillion in financing, including direct investment, soft loans and commercial loans."







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