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Ancient Greeks in America


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#1 FriendofGreece

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 08:41 PM

So, I was telling myself that Alexander the Great went till India, which left as legacy Hellenistic art which is reflected in Hellenistic buildings and statues along the way. I was questioning myself whether there are any ancient Greek artefacts in America that could show there was a Greek presence there. I googled a little bit and found this article that says that ancient Greeks went to America. I would have to read Plutarch, but what do you think? Certainly, when we think of how advanced ancient civilizations were, such as the ancient Egyptians and ancient Greeks, it would be a little puzzling if they did not know about America. http://canada.greekr...efore-columbus/



Who read this topic? (Total Views: 9) , Eleni Papadopoulou, HappyAsHellas, eyoismos, Brenda, journals7, jibril, admin, FriendofGreece,


#2 admin

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 09:25 PM

Sounds like tall tales to me. There's no scientific proof that Greeks, or any other ancient civilization, crossed the Atlantic and reached the Americas.



#3 eyoismos

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 03:22 AM

by almight Oden, admin, do the vikings know about this theory of yours? :P



#4 eyoismos

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 03:46 AM

but seriously ...

 many theorize , problably based on the idea, that in those times, trade routes where kept highly secret, that the Odyssey was in reality just that, a travel log for seafarers, all in code. somewhere in the labyrith of data drives, i have two books that where written which dealt with very interesting notion. the idea was that 10 years is a frigging long time to get from troy to ithaka, and more than likely something else was afoot. anyways, the authors apparently worked with the supposed nautical guides hidden according to them, in the odyssey and worked out some interesting interpretations.

 

one author reckoned by his calculations, and based on the need for certain metals and/or ingredients to make bronze or whatever, apparently highly demanded at the time, and even went as far as reckoning that greek sailors had hit scotland and even went as far as suggesting that scylla and charybdis was some place near scotland that fitted the description ...and the source for those "ingredients"

 

the other author took a more shall we call it liberal approach, and suggested america, canada somewhere if i remember, and again, nailed scylla and charybdis was somewhere i nova scotia or something like that, and again ... there those same ingredients where to be found .... in both cases the mention of a "shield of metal" melted on the ground, and what not

 

now i am very hazy on all the details, been such a long time since i read them, and i certainly didnt bother to sit down and do all those calcualtions and all the rest, to verify the possibility, even though i was very tempted to  - even , my suspicious nature was screaming with excitement...  do it! do it! ... but ...anyways... interesting reading at the time ...but never seemed to be able to digest either of the two scenarios as viable.... i mean .... has anybody seen the boats they used during those times? and they could handle the frigging atlantic? hardly.

 

most amusing though, as i remember it, that scotland was involved one way or another :)

 

but like i said ... interesting reading ... not for anything else ... i am an avid reader of science fiction --- but then ... one never knows 100% ... just 99.9999% sure that these where wonderful fiction



#5 FriendofGreece

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 05:54 AM

Even if the ancient Greeks never went to America, I wonder whether they knew about its existence though, even if only vaguely. When you think that the ancients knew about the planets, etc., it is strange that they would not know about their own planet. A lot of books were lost when the library of Alexandria was burnt, so we would never know how much knowledge was lost.

#6 eyoismos

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 06:15 AM

well... pythagoras was the dude who supposedly first said the earth was a sphere and that revolved around the sun, and and then this other dude eratosthenes first calculated its size, at least quite accurately, ....considering ,

 

and knowing those ancients, i wouldnt put it past the notion that somebody would have tried to go to the ends of the earth and all that, just to see what is on the other side - read up on a guy called pythias, for example

 

:)



#7 admin

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 04:58 PM

As eyoismos said, the Greeks were the first to realize that the earth was not flat (as previously thought by the Egyptians, who passed on their knowledge of a flat earth to the Greeks and to other civilizations in the area). For example, there are depictions of Atlas on painted vases and marble statues holding the world on his shoulders (and the world is a sphere).

 

From what I know all other ancient civilizations (Chinese, Indians etc.) all thought that the earth was flat. In fact, the Chinese thought that the earth was flat up until the 16th-17th century (fairly recently) when they first came into contact with the Europeans who passed on to them the knowledge of a round earth.



#8 FriendofGreece

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 12:59 AM

I am going to read on Pythias. :) Interesting that people from various far away areas all thought the Earth was flat, I mean, until they did not think so. Often, you find that the same ideas popped up in different parts of the world. But even if they thought the Earth was flat, there could still be something (America) after the ocean, no? It did not have to stop at the ocean. Does it make sense?

#9 admin

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 04:49 AM

I don't really know what they thought was past the edge of the earth. I think that some ancient philosophers thought that the earth was just suspended in the air (space) much like the earth we know (the globe) is suspended. The difference of course was that in their minds the earth was flat, it was a disc, and not a globe, but it still behaved in a similar way as the globe.



#10 FriendofGreece

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 12:55 AM

I just can't imagine the discussions the Ancients must have had. Ancient Greece must have been an exciting time.

#11 eyoismos

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 01:56 AM

nothing different from today .... civil wars , ... but more civilized, as in political parties replacing city states, everybody has their own opinion, and "fight" to defend that opinion, even when wrong ... the rich (as in the "athenian league" aka Delian), imposing their will on others .... the highly frugal "spartans" saying fuck you to the rich with contempt, beat the crap out of them ... only in the end get screwed by their own narrow vision of reality .... almost the whole hellenic world eventually collapsing under their own "brilliance" ...etc etc etc

 

yup ...definitely exciting times

 

:P



#12 FriendofGreece

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 02:02 AM

Yeah, maybe there were problems too. I cried for 3 days after I read about the trial and death of Socrates.

#13 eyoismos

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 02:11 AM

the hellenes biggest enemies , ancient or modern , or anything in between, are the hellenes themselves

 

at least this is what history has taught us



#14 FriendofGreece

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 02:18 AM

That is why I mentioned before, somewhere in the forum, that unity is the first thing that is needed, the rest will come. Unity among all Greeks, among Greece and its diaspora ...

#15 eyoismos

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 02:22 AM

i must categorically state here that "unity" and "greeks" is a contradiction in terms

 

:P :D



#16 FriendofGreece

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 02:25 AM

Maybe Greeks derive their strength from lack of unity. Because they are so individualistic, each one can have his own ideas. Maybe if Greeks had been more unified, they would not have developed as they had in the past. However, that lack of unity is also your weakness. Can you use your strength to overcome your weakness?

#17 eyoismos

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 02:42 AM

indeed ! THAT is the billion dollar question

 

certainly unity was not what made the ancients so amazing ,wonderful ,absolutely incredible and so highly admirable

 

so you are probably right, maybe just maybe, lack of unity, (at least in the eyes of the beholder) could very well be a strength of some type.

 

harnessing that strength ? ....hmmmmmm  ? that indeed would be a challenge in its own right



#18 FriendofGreece

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 03:49 AM

If you don't try it, you will never know if it will succeed.




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