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Greece is nothing! MACEDONIA was winner and 'll be  This thread currently has 28,326 views. Print
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Spaga
February 11, 2006, 2:47pm Report to Moderator
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Macedonia was the winner and 'll be. ALEXANDER III MACEDONIAN THE GREAT is the greatest macedonian warrior. tou was kissing the FILIP's foots. you was nothing and you never be better than us - MACEDONIA.
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admin
February 13, 2006, 7:49am Report to Moderator

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So you think you people from Northern Greece are so much better thananybody else?
Sure, Thessaloniki is a beautiful city, I love Kavala as well, but southern Greece  has some nice places as well.

As far as history goes, I believe that Athenians and Spartans created two impressive empires for their time, but I agree that Alexander's Hellenistic empire was something that the world had never seen before. He spread Hellenism the Greek language and the Greek way of life all over middle east. He went as far as Egypt to the south and India to the east.

Up to this day people in India and Pakistan claim that they're descentands of Alexander the Great and his Greek warriors. Even some Slavs in former Yugoslavia pose the same claims even though they were not around at that time.  

If you want to learn more about Alexander the Great keep reading here:
http://www.hellenism.net/cgi-bin/display_article.html?a=12&s=23

Enjoy!


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natavivi
February 21, 2006, 7:18pm Report to Moderator
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"Macedonia was the winner and 'll be. ALEXANDER III MACEDONIAN THE GREAT is the greatest macedonian warrior. tou was kissing the FILIP's foots. you was nothing and you never be better than us - MACEDONIA."

we are all proud of one of our greatest greek heros -- Alexander the Great... GREEKS RULE  
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DigitalBoy
March 6, 2006, 5:48pm Report to Moderator
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Let's not forget the CRETANS !

Their hieroglyphics influenced the Egyptians ! ( Minoan Empire )

And in modern times, the Cretan resistance was crucial in staving off the Axis' attempt at occupying Greece and controlling the Mediterrenean!

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natavivi
March 15, 2006, 10:57am Report to Moderator
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we have so many amazing heros in Greece
It is an honour to be part of such an amazing race!
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Hellenicguy
July 2, 2006, 2:54pm Report to Moderator
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Macedonians, Athenians, Spartans, Corinthians, Cretans we should be proud of all them, they are all Greek. We are not living back in the ancient years c'mon guys.
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Ms.Ahiska
February 27, 2007, 5:40am Report to Moderator
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lol
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kozani
March 6, 2007, 1:24pm Report to Moderator
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DigitalBoy, Minoan Empire and their growing civilization made there growth after the fall of the Egyptians.  During the Pharaoh's Dynasties, the Greeks (Minoans, Mycaneans) were uproaring.  And our first few sculptures of Greek art is influenced by the Egyptian sculptures.  But it is the Greeks who inlfuenced the world because Greeks are brilliant.
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kozani
March 6, 2007, 1:26pm Report to Moderator
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Guys there were many time periods, Golden Age, Classical, Archaic bla bla bla.  Minoans were in Crete and they were wiped out by some unknown natural catastrophe.
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makedonec
March 13, 2007, 3:49pm Report to Moderator
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Please read:
Alexander the Great was in war with the Greeks;
The slavs, as you preffer to say, came and mixed up with the Macedonians (which are not Greeks);
Until the wars, it would have been nice your teachers (which obviously are big nationalists) to tell you that we had Solun (Thessaloniki) and the whole region Macedonia. Not the mention Pirin's Macedonia, whinch is now a part from Bulgaria, and the place Mala Prespa (Little Prespa) which has dominant Macedonian citizens and they speak Macedonian too.
I will advice you to accept the truth. God knows how could it be if we, Republic of Macedonia, asked back our teritory from Greece, Bulgaria and Albania. Tito would have done it if there were less people who wanted the Balkans as it is.
Therefore the name Macedonia is at least you can give us back.
WE DO NOT WANT ANYTHING THAT IS NOT OURS.
Thank You for your patience, and I hope that the Greek nationalists will change their wrong opinion about my country. Cheers
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admin
March 15, 2007, 8:20am Report to Moderator

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So you're saying that all Greeks are nationalists...and also all historians around the world are nationalists as well.

Instead of claiming stupid things without any backing, why don't you stick to the facts and explain to all us "nationalists" why did the ancient Macedonians speak Greek and not your language (whatever that is...)?
How come all the inscriptions on their graves are in Greek?
How come Alexander spread the Greek language (and not yours...) throughout the then known world?
How come all the Macedonian names are Greek? (Philipos, Alexandros, Olympias etc.)

And get your historic facts straight again. The slavs came to the Balkans much much later. They were not around in Alexander's time.

Therefore it's obvious that Alexander and Macedon are part of our heritage and not yours. They were not slavs, they were Greeks, and they considered you and your people barbarians!

As far as your newborn country goes, you are the creation of politics in the area. If former Yugoslavia wouldn't fall apart you would never be a country, not in a million years! However, the creation of your little country was in reallity good news for Greece.

Greek companies already control the majority of banking, telecom and other institutions in your country. So in a way (financialy) you are dependant on us.

So I would suggest to your nationalist polticians to "play down" the nationalist talk (which they've already done...).
It's not to your country's benefit and they know it.

Cheers!


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kozani
March 15, 2007, 11:30am Report to Moderator
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Awesome response to whoever that is demanding Macedonia isnt Greek.  Obviously this isnt going to end on sides.  Its the SLAVS, or whatever, keeping the fire running on our backs.  You have no crucial facts, no REAL historical information to back upon your comments of where Macedonia belongs to.  You see guys, everyone wants to hide and push back the fact that GREEKS are the seeds to many things today.  For instnce soe jerk told me that Alexander the Great was of Turkish decent.  Turkey didnt even exist during Alexander's time.  What an idiot. People dont know world history.  
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makedonec
March 18, 2007, 9:48am Report to Moderator
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I will say it again, because obviously you are blinded from the hate.
1. Slavs came on the Balkans 500-600 years after Christ. TRUE !!!
But they mixed up with the Antic Macedonians which lived in today's my country and in the half of yourse, which also, was a part from today's Macedonia (or as you prefer F.Y.R.O.M.), and you can't deny that. Finally, after the ''Ilinden'' revolution 1903 my country created a basic for final independence after 5 centuries under Otomans.
After all, Goce Delcev, maybe our famoust fighter for free Makedonija was born in Kukush which you now call Kilkis, St. Kiril and Metodij (Cyril and Metodius) were born in Solun (now-Thessaloniki) and therefore you can not say, for an example, that my friend Antonio is not Macedonian, that Alexander is not his ancestor. Maybe his grandgrand...father was Slav, but his grandgrand...mother was Antic Macedonian. See the point?
2. Macedonians and Greeks before Christ were not the same nation. In many books you can read how Macedonians defeated some Greeks in many of your small countries (then).
3. Another thing which is very imnportant. I'm certain you know that Aristotel was Alexander's teacher because Macedonians did not have a language. Therefore the inscriptions on their grave are written with greek letters if you say they are)
4. You say Alexandros... well Albanians call Skopje SHKUPI. That doesn't mean that Skopje is Albanian, wouldn't you agree?
5. It's very funny that you mentioned that:
''Greek companies already control the majority of banking, telecom and other institutions in your country. So in a way (financialy) you are dependant on us.''
first of all that is SO OUT OF THE TOPIC HERE !!!!
second of all THAT ONLY MEANS THAT THE GREEK CAPITAL IS TRANSFERING HERE
and third of all TRYING TO AFFEND SOMEONE LIKE THIS SHOWS THAT THE PERSON IS HEALING COMPLEXES, which I don't know and I don't care which are they !
6. Just one more thing... This is addresed to the last member that posted. Do you know what's the name Kozani at all. Do you know that the word Kozani comes from my language region? ONE MORE PROOVE THAT BEFORE THE BALKAN WARS, WHEN YOU RIPPED A PART FROM US, AS THE BULGARIANS (PIRIN) AND AS THE ALBANIANS, SOLUN (THESSALONIKI), RUGUNOVEC (POLIKASTRON), PAZAR (JANICA), VODEN (EDESSA), DRAGOMANCI (APSALOS) LERIN (FLORINA), KOZANI, KUKUSH (KILKIS) AND MEANY OTHER CITIES AND VILLAGES WERE O-U-R-S. WHY DON'T YOU ASK THE POPULATION THERE: ARE YOU MACEDONIAS OR GREEKS. DO IT.
Thanks for reading...
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admin
March 19, 2007, 11:28am Report to Moderator

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Athenians, Spartans, Macedonians, Thebans and so on were all Greek tribes.
They all spoke Greek and this is very easy to prove. All their inscriptions are in Greek.

Your people and your ancestors are slavs. They speak slavic. End of story.

Saying that you lay claim in ancient Macedonia's lands because some of your ancestors got married to Greeks is really lame. According to your logic then since I'm Greek and married to a Canadian Greeks can claim Ontario as a Greek province!

You slavs are funny...

As far as the rest of your claims...feel free to go to Thessaloniki or Polykastro, or Edessa and call them Slavs or Skopians. If you leave their cities in one piece then come back to this forum and tell us about your adventure


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makedonec
March 19, 2007, 4:07pm Report to Moderator
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IF YOU GET MERRIED IN CANADA AND YOU COME FROM A NOWHERE'S LAND, YES, YOU WILL BECOME CANADIAN.
IF THE SLAVS CAME FROM THE NORTH (KARPATI'S) AND STARTED TO LIVE IN ANCIENT MACEDONIA, YES THAT MAKES THEM MACEDONIANS. IT'S SO SIMPLE, BUT IT SEEMS HARD TO ACCEPT.
...JUST TRYING TO BRAKE THE MONOTONY IN YOUR OPINION...
YOU SEE, IT DOES NOT HURT US THAT YOU DON'T ACCEPT US UNDER OUR CONSTITUTIONAL NAME, (BECAUSE MORE THAN HALF OF THE WORLD ACCEPTED US AS A R.OF MACEDONIA) IT HURTS US THAT YOU DENY OUR HISTORY. JUST LIKE THE BULGARINS. THEY SAY, ''EMI NEMA MAKEDONSKI NAROD, TVA SE B'LGARI''... WHICH MEANS ''THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MACEDONIAN NATION (POINTING US), THOSE PEOPLE ARE BULGARIANS.
IS THAT SO?????
BULGARIANS ARE NOT EVEN SLAVS (THEY'VE BECOME A STATE AFTER UNITING THE 7 TATAR TRIBES). AND NOW, TELL ME HOW TO PROOVE THAT WE ARE NOT RELATED TO THEM??? IT'S THE SAME CASE HERE.
YOU SAY IF I COME IN ONE PIECE???
THEN TELL ME HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT EVERY THIRD HERE HAS A RELATIVE IN THE REGION OF MACEDONIA IN GREECE? BELIEVE MY WORDS. SAYING THAT I WOULDN'T GET ALIVE OR ELSE, COULD ONLY HAPPEN IF I ASK SOMEONE WHO IS REALLY GREEK!
THE WORD SKOPIANS REALLY BECAME A STEREOTYPE, NOT ALL SLAVS ARE SKOPIANS. WHAT, ALL GREEKS ARE ATHINIANS??
ONE MORE THING ABOUT YOUR ''DIPLOMACY''.  DORA BAKOYIANNI ALWAYS SAYS THAT WE ARE NOT CONSTRUCTIVE IN THE DIALOGUES. C'MON GREEKS, WE HAVE CHANGED OUR FLAG IN '95. AND YOU RELEASE CLIPS WITH GREEK SOLDIERS SINGING ''QUITE OFFENSIVE'' SONGS ABOUT US. AND WHEN WE REACTED THEN DORA BAKOYIANNI SAYS: ''SKOPJE IS DEALING WITH UNNECESSARY THINGS''.
WHEN WE CHANGED THE NAME OF THE NATIONAL AIRPORT TO ALEXANDER THE GREAT (WHICH WE HAVE RIGHT TO DO) DORA SAYS: HOW COULD YOU? THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE! SKOPJE IS BREAKING THE DEAL! OH MY...
I HEAR ALL THE TIME THAT GREECE WILL BLOCK OUR INTEGRATION IN EU AND NATO. WHY? BEACUSE OF THE NAME? HMMM... NOW THAT'S VERY CONSTRUCTIVE ! AHA...
YOU ARE USING ALL THE THINGS, ALL THE WEAPONS, YOUR NATO MEMBERSHIP, EU MEMBERSHIP ETC TO MAKE A PRESSURE ON US TO CHANGE THE NAME.
IF YOU REALLY WANT TO PROOVE SOMETHING, THEN START PROOVING IT, RIGHT AWAY, WITH EVIDENCES, FACTS, PUBLISH ON WEB, REPORT TO CNN BBS ETC. DON'T PLAY DIRTY. AS LONG YOU PROLONGUE THAT IT BECOMES CLEAR THAT ACCEPTING US FROM THE U.N. IS NOT FAR AWAY. IN MATTER OF SPEAKING YOU KNOW THAT MORE THAN HALF A COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD ACCEPTED US AS R.OF MACEDONIA.
JUST ONE MORE THING, I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW OLD ARE YOU (ADMIN) BUT YOU CAN ASK YOUR PARENTS, RELATIVES ETC HOW WERE THE THINGS IN GREECE IN THE '80es. IF THERE WAS NO SEA, YOU COULD KISS THOSE EUROPEAN ASSES. REALLY. IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT MY COUNTRY CAN DO (AND IT CAN) TO ENTER EU, THAN YOUR CLAIMING THAT ''YOU DEPEND OF US'' WILL FAIL. JUST BECAUSE WE ARE IN THE DARK SPOT OF THE BALKANS, THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU A RIGHT TO HUMILIATE US WITH THAT KIND OF STATEMENTS, DON'T YOU THINK?
SALUT!!!
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makedonec
March 19, 2007, 4:16pm Report to Moderator
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AH, I FORGOT SOMETHING. AS YOU SAD THAT MACEDONIANS SPOKE GREEK, THAT MAKE THEM GREEKS. WELL I'VE TOLD YOU THAT MACEDONIAS DID NOT HAVE THEIR LETTER(S).
IF YOU GO THAT WAY, ASK YOURSELF, IF THE AUSTRALIANS SPEAK ENGLISH, DOES THAT MAKE THEM CITIZENS OF ENGLAND???   NO!!!!
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admin
March 20, 2007, 7:42am Report to Moderator

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Yes! Australia was first colonized by English and they still have very close ties to the Brits.

You see that you can answer to your own questions if you try a little bit?


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admin
March 20, 2007, 7:48am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from makedonec, posted March 19, 2007, 4:07pm at here

YOU SEE, IT DOES NOT HURT US THAT YOU DON'T ACCEPT US UNDER OUR CONSTITUTIONAL NAME, (BECAUSE MORE THAN HALF OF THE WORLD ACCEPTED US AS A R.OF MACEDONIA)


You see, that's your problem. You're so blinded by your nationalism that you can't even read.

The "world" officialy accepts you as F.Y.R.O.M, that's the official name of your country. Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Quite a name if you ask me...

It's really unfortunate for your claims that ancient Macedonians left behind them a wealth of information ALL pointing towards their Greek heritage and upbringing. Very unfortunate for you...


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makedonec
March 20, 2007, 8:22am Report to Moderator
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ANYTHING THAT HELPS YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT
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makedonec
March 20, 2007, 8:44am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from admin, posted March 20, 2007, 7:48am at here


The "world" officialy accepts you as F.Y.R.O.M, that's the official name of your country. Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Quite a name if you ask me...



UN ARE ONLY THE LAST STEP FOR US. I DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING WHAT I HEAR, BUT I'VE HEARD THAT IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF MONTHS FOR THE UN (AS AN INSTITUTION) TO ACCEPT OUR CONSTITUTIONAL NAME (R. OF MACEDONIA), THIS WAY OR THAT WAY.
ONLY, THE RELATIONSHIP THEN BETWEEN US WILL NOT BE AS GOOD AS IT SHOULD BE.
I JUST HOPE THAT I COULD STILL VISIT CHALKIDIKI.  
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admin
March 20, 2007, 11:01am Report to Moderator

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Anything that helps you sleep at night...

Should I assume that you speak some Greek then since you visit Greece that often?


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makedonec
March 20, 2007, 3:42pm Report to Moderator
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NAH... ALTHOUGH, I WOULDN'T MIND. YOU'LL NEVER KNOW WHEN I'LL NEED IT.
( MAYBE IF I ASK SOME GREEK IN KILKIS ''ARE YOU A MACEDONIAN?'' )
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jen
March 20, 2007, 4:38pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Spaga, posted February 11, 2006, 2:47pm at here
Macedonia was the winner and 'll be. ALEXANDER III MACEDONIAN THE GREAT is the greatest macedonian warrior. tou was kissing the FILIP's foots. you was nothing and you never be better than us - MACEDONIA.


You sound very immature and its very clear that your starving attention...but its strange that you come to a GREEK forum to find it  

welcome to  Hellenism.Net Forum (Bringing Greeks together)
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makedonec
March 20, 2007, 5:08pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from jen, posted March 20, 2007, 4:38pm at here


You sound very immature and its very clear that your starving attention...but its strange that you come to a GREEK forum to find it  


Hmm.........YOU ARE A LITTLE LATE WITH THE POST. ABOUT A YEAR !!!  
HOWEVER, FORUM IS A FORUM, GREEK OR NOT. ALSO WHERE SHOULD WE ASK FOR AN ATTENTION, AS YOU SAY, ON A CHINESE FORUM ???  
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makedonec
March 20, 2007, 5:14pm Report to Moderator
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ALTHOUGH, IT'S QUITE UNCOMFORTABLE FOR ME BECAUSE OF THE ''SPARTAN WARRIOR''
..NOT TO MENTION THE OTHERS.
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jen
March 21, 2007, 4:34pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from makedonec, posted March 20, 2007, 5:14pm at here
ALTHOUGH, IT'S QUITE UNCOMFORTABLE FOR ME BECAUSE OF THE ''SPARTAN WARRIOR''
..NOT TO MENTION THE OTHERS.


you make it uncomfortable on yourself with this subject
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jen
March 21, 2007, 4:35pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from makedonec, posted March 20, 2007, 5:08pm at here


Hmm.........YOU ARE A LITTLE LATE WITH THE POST. ABOUT A YEAR !!!  
HOWEVER, FORUM IS A FORUM, GREEK OR NOT. ALSO WHERE SHOULD WE ASK FOR AN ATTENTION, AS YOU SAY, ON A CHINESE FORUM ???  




try a macedonian forum  
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makedonec
March 21, 2007, 5:07pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from jen, posted March 21, 2007, 4:34pm at here


you make it uncomfortable on yourself with this subject


NAH... I'LL WON'T BE HERE THEN...
IT IS ALWAYS A CHALLENGE TO PLAY ON THE OPPONENT'S FIELD.  
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makedonec
March 21, 2007, 5:11pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from jen, posted March 21, 2007, 4:35pm at here




try a macedonian forum  


WELL THANK YOU FOR PREFFERING MY COUNTRY'S FORUM(S), BUT IT'S MORE INTERESTING HERE, AS I'VE MENTIONED BEFORE.  
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admin
March 21, 2007, 7:03pm Report to Moderator

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I'm glad that you like Greek people

You're more than welcome to write your opinion in this forum. As you can see we didn't censor any of your writings. Everyoneone is allowed to have an opinion, however wrong this opinion may be


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makedonec
March 23, 2007, 6:23am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from admin, posted March 21, 2007, 7:03pm at here
I'm glad that you like Greek people

As you can see we didn't censor any of your writings. Everyoneone is allowed to have an opinion


EVERYTHING IS COOL, REALLY, ONLY THIS GIRL IRRITATES ME BECAUSE OF PLAYING ''SMART ASS''.
SHE HAS MUCH TO TELL AND NOTHING TO SAY.  
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admin
March 23, 2007, 12:49pm Report to Moderator

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Did you really have to make this last comment?  

If she has nothing to say, what did you really say with your last post? How did this contribute to the conversaton?

Please refrain from insulting other users. Consider this a warning.  


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makedonec
March 23, 2007, 5:20pm Report to Moderator
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WARNING ACCEPTED.
(LAST THING I WOULD LIKE TO DO IS TO INSULT SOMEONE, BELIEVE ME)
NEVER MIND, I WON'T BOTHER ANYMORE, AFTER ALL,  IT'S A FORUM ABOUT
''BRINGING GREEKS TOGETHER''.
SALUT
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admin
March 26, 2007, 10:07am Report to Moderator

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Great.
Please feel free to participate in the forum. Different opinions give birth to interesting discussions.


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Spartan Queen
March 26, 2007, 4:23pm Report to Moderator
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its sad really...after reading through some of the crap posted in here , you'd think with all the ways to inform ones self these days,  people wouldn't be so ignorant.

Admin...you know your history man,  very impressive.


Makedonut isn't to blame...what he has learned was from fellow makies..like his father or from Makie sites.  


shame really.
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kozani
March 27, 2007, 8:44am Report to Moderator
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Ok...you make no sense, and frankly I, and may speak for others in here, dont care what you think, 'cause you're wrong, and you know it but cannot admit.  Your made up culture and background came after the fall of Yugoslavia.  So answer me this, if you're macedonian as you claim, why haven't your people been making a fuss for more than...gee I dunno no more than 10 years?  All of a sudden, you guys are countryless, and so agreed to steal a name nearby..oh and if I am Greek and marry an American, or live in America, that doesnt make me American idiot!@!!  I hate when people think that.  OK, SO IF YOU LIVE IN AMERICA (I DONT KNOW) THEN YOURE NOT A SLAV (OR MACEDONIAN FOR YOUR SAKE) YOU'RE AN AMERICAN!!!
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kozani
March 27, 2007, 8:45am Report to Moderator
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WRONG FORUM SORRY
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makedonec
March 28, 2007, 4:04am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from kozani, posted March 27, 2007, 8:44am at here

1. Your made up culture and background came after the fall of Yugoslavia.  So answer me this, if you're macedonian as you claim, why haven't your people been making a fuss for more than...gee I dunno no more than 10 years?

2. oh and if I am Greek and marry an American, or live in America, that doesnt make me American idiot!@!!

3. OK, SO IF YOU LIVE IN AMERICA (I DONT KNOW) THEN YOURE NOT A SLAV (OR MACEDONIAN FOR YOUR SAKE) YOU'RE AN AMERICAN!!!


First - we are independent since 8th September 1991, but our history is much much older. What should I say about ''Greece Under Turkish Tyranny (1453 - 1831)''. DOES YOUR CULTURE AND BACKGROUND, AS YOU SAY, CAME AFTER 1831?

Second - AND VERY IMPORTANT:

===ABOUT THAT ''IDIOT''. THAT IS SO LOW...===

Third - But you CAN, I REAPEAT JUST FOR YOU... YOU CAN... BECOME AN AMERICAN... I DID NOT SAY THAT AUTOMATICALLY YOU WILL BECAME AN AMERICAN!!!
When the Slavs came on the Balkans, when they (those who...) mixed up with the Macedonians, accepted to becOme Macedonians too. IT IS SO, SO CLEAR. And that's the reason why we say that Alexander is our (NOT JUST OUR...) ancestor.
IT SEEMS THAT YOU'RE THE ONE THAT DOESN'T WANT TO ACCEPT THAT FACT...
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makedonec
March 28, 2007, 4:18am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Spartan Queen, posted March 26, 2007, 4:23pm at here


Admin...you know your history man,  very impressive.

Makedonut isn't to blame...what he has learned was from fellow makies..like his father or from Makie sites.  


Yes, Admin talks about history, you talk about what???

I DON'T BLAME NEITHER OF YOU TOO, BECAUSE... WHERE DID YOU LEARNED YOUR HISTORY??? HOW CAN YOU KNOW THAT MY FATHER AND FELLOWS ARE IN CONFUSION ABOUT THE HISTORY, AND YOUR'S AREN'T ???
ALTHOUGH, EVERYTHING I'VE WROTE (WHICH YOU CALL CRAP) CAN BE FOUND ON THE NET. I'M SURE OF IT.
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jen
March 28, 2007, 5:09am Report to Moderator

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History plays a big part in shaping our future, so lets learn from it and live in peace  

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admin
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History sometimes is subjective.
It's mainly politicians who "manipulate" history the way it suits them so that they can achieve their goals.

There are some hard facts though that even politicians cannot change, however hard they try.

The Macedonians were a Greek tribe. Period. It's recorded in the contemporary history of their time. They spoke Greek, they believed in the same gods, they wore the same or similar clothes, they had the same customs. What other proof do you need to believe that they were Greeks?

If it's easy for you to call Dorians, Achaians or Ionians Greeks, then what stops you to call Macedonians Greeks as well? They all shared the same culture, language and gods. They all considered themselves Greeks.

According to Herotodus' history Alexander of Macedon (Alexander the Great's grandfather) went to the Athenian camp just before the Persians arrive at Plataea (battle of Plataea 479BC) and said the following:

"Men of Athens... In truth I would not tell it to you if I did not care so much for all Hellas; I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery.

I tell you, then, that Mardonius and his army cannot get omens to his liking from the sacrifices. Otherwise you would have fought long before this. Now, however, it is his purpose to pay no heed to the sacrifices, and to attack at the first glimmer of dawn, for he fears, as I surmise, that your numbers will become still greater. Therefore, I urge you to prepare, and if (as may be) Mardonius should delay and not attack, wait patiently where you are; for he has but a few days' provisions left.

If, however, this war ends as you wish, then must you take thought how to save me too from slavery, who have done so desperate a deed as this for the sake of Hellas in my desire to declare to you Mardonius' intent so that the barbarians may not attack you suddenly before you yet expect them. I who speak am Alexander the Macedonian. "

Not surprisingly, Slavs were not around at the time...


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Spartan Queen
March 29, 2007, 6:30am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from makedonec, posted March 28, 2007, 4:18am at here


Yes, Admin talks about history, you talk about what???

I DON'T BLAME NEITHER OF YOU TOO, BECAUSE... WHERE DID YOU LEARNED YOUR HISTORY??? HOW CAN YOU KNOW THAT MY FATHER AND FELLOWS ARE IN CONFUSION ABOUT THE HISTORY, AND YOUR'S AREN'T ???
ALTHOUGH, EVERYTHING I'VE WROTE (WHICH YOU CALL CRAP) CAN BE FOUND ON THE NET. I'M SURE OF IT.





I talk about how foolish ignorant SLAVS..come on a GREECE site and type crap that he read from a cracker jack box.

let me ask you the  same question you asked me..where and who taught you yours LMAO

as for the net..Im sure If I log on to some slavic site ...then yes, I would be reading the same crap you post.

IT MUST BURN YOU THAT WE "THE GREEKS" ARE RIGHT AHAHAHAHAHA

Greek history is everywhere...go pick up a real book and READ.  yes even the bible!
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kozani
March 29, 2007, 8:44am Report to Moderator
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Location: Philly!!
Let alone GREEK history, World history will prove your fible WRONG!!  Yes, you guys did gain independence at your date stated above, SO WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE COUNTRY?  duh!!!  And yes the Greeks were enslaved by the Ottoman Empire (not Turkey yet)  for 400 years (368 to be exact)  so when GReece gained independence, did we take Ottoman?  Or Turkey?  You know what you're aggravating me like all these other Yugoslavs making up theories that dont stand.  
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makedonec
March 30, 2007, 4:25pm Report to Moderator
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You think as you wish to, I think as I wish to, I proove one thing, you deny other. Whatever. I was just attracted by the discussion in first place. As I've said above I'll leave this forum, because it's about Bringing Greeks Together. I don't want to ruin the primary reason for which this forum is created. Really.
...NOT THAT WE'VE CHANGED SOMETHING IN OUR POSITIONS AND OPINIONS ABOUT THE NAME MACEDONIA
THIS DISCUSSION IS REALLY WORTHLESS. WE CAN PRESENT AS MUCH ''FACTS'' AS WE WANT, BUT AS YOU'VE SEEN BEFORE, IT DOESN'T LEAD US ANYWHERE. I'M BORED KEEP TELLING THE SAME THINGS ALL OVER AGAIN. YOU WOULD SAY: ''SO DO WE''.
AFTER ALL, THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE PAID TO DO WHAT WE ARE DOING IT NOW.
NOT THAT I SURRENDER THE ''1 AGAINST MANY'' DISCUSSION, BUT IT BECAME REALLY BORING TO SAY IT ALL OVER AGAIN AND AGAIN.
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makedonec
March 31, 2007, 8:21am Report to Moderator
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I REALLY RECCOMEND YOU TO READ THIS FAQ/SITE, IT'S QUITE INTERESTING, YOU'LL SEE.
http://faq.macedonia.org/history/ancient.macedonia/ethnicity.html
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makedonec
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admin
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Which Makedonia is this?
Because Alexander's Macedonia extended all the way to Persia (present day Iran).

Of course Alexander's Macedonia had nothing to do with today's slavic FYROM.

So what is this map you are showing us here about?
Do you want to say that FYROM claims Greek lands as their own? Are your people trying to provoke a war?

Not a very smart move if you ask me...


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natavivi
April 2, 2007, 8:31am Report to Moderator
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Spaga u are very imature
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makedonec
April 2, 2007, 4:51pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from admin, posted April 2, 2007, 7:49am at here

So what is this map you are showing us here about?
Do you want to say that FYROM claims Greek lands as their own? Are your people trying to provoke a war?

Not a very smart move if you ask me...


YOU CAN FIND THIS MAP IN MANY MANY WORLD'S HISTORY BOOKS. IT IS A PROOVEN TRUTH. PERIOD. IT IS A BASIC EVIDENCE (AT LEAST TERRITORIAL) OF THE CONNECTION BETWEEN R. of MACEDONIA AND ANCIENT MACEDONIA. THE GREEKS WERE AROUND, YES, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT MACEDONIA WAS YOURS.
SOMEWHERE BELOW THE Mt: PIERIA, VOURINOS, VOIO .etc. REPRESENTED GREECE, NOTHING FURTHER NORTH !!!
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April 2, 2007, 9:17pm Report to Moderator

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admin
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Quoted from makedonec, posted April 2, 2007, 4:51pm at here


YOU CAN FIND THIS MAP IN MANY MANY WORLD'S HISTORY BOOKS. IT IS A PROOVEN TRUTH. PERIOD. IT IS A BASIC EVIDENCE (AT LEAST TERRITORIAL) OF THE CONNECTION BETWEEN R. of MACEDONIA AND ANCIENT MACEDONIA. THE GREEKS WERE AROUND, YES, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT MACEDONIA WAS YOURS.
SOMEWHERE BELOW THE Mt: PIERIA, VOURINOS, VOIO .etc. REPRESENTED GREECE, NOTHING FURTHER NORTH !!!


Maybe you can find the map in your kind of books. There is no such map in any other history books anywhere in the world.
I've lived in Greece, England, and Canada. I've read extensively about history in the Balkans but I've never come across a map like this one.

This map is the creation of fanatics who try to create trouble in the area. I will not allow any more propaganda in this topic. That's enough...



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makedonec
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==IT IS REALLY DISAPPOINTING THAT YOU BROKE THE RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH BY ERASING MY MOST RECENT POST==

WHY WAS MY MOST RECENT POST A PROPAGANDA???
BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FIT WITH YOUR VIEW OF THE HISTORY???
BY THE WAY, THE ARCHIVES IN ENGLAND CONTAIN THE TRUTH ABOUT THAT MAP, NOT SOME COMMERCIALIZED HISTORY BOOK, THAT CERTAINLY WON'T CONTAIN THE SAME DATA BECAUSE OF YOUR GREEK LOBBY THERE. WE ALL KNOW THAT.

ALTHOUGH, THE BULGARIAN ARCHIVE HAS A BIG COLLECTION ABOUT THE PAST OF MY COUNTRY, DOCUMENTS, WHICH SOMEHOW, ''VAPORIZE'' ONE BY ONE...
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admin
April 3, 2007, 9:57am Report to Moderator

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I erased your recent post because it was too long and it was obviously a "copy and paste". This a forum where we encourage people to post their opinions, and not copy and paste the opinions ofother.

And please, don't write again in capital letters. These posts will be deleted as well.


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makedonec
April 3, 2007, 10:04am Report to Moderator
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I always forgot about the Caps Lock....
... I thought it would be more effective to present the original, than to write samples of the text as it if were mine... Never mind...
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smyrni
August 22, 2007, 5:05pm Report to Moderator
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Dont forget ASIA MINOR AND  its beatiful city SMYRNI !!!
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eyoismos
August 25, 2007, 2:52pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from admin, posted March 19, 2007, 11:28am at here

......
Saying that you lay claim in ancient Macedonia's lands because some of your ancestors got married to Greeks is really lame. According to your logic then since I'm Greek and married to a Canadian Greeks can claim Ontario as a Greek province!
....


You know what? I kinda like that concept. Ontario is a Greek province.

All we need is a couple of wack "historians", twist and distort  the language, recruit some idiot politicians quotations and we are there. Hell some much of the french and english language is already based on greek, and then there is such an abundance of stupid politicians, and lets face it plenty of moronic ignorant citizens (which are in abundance anywhere in every part of the world, anyway) and with the right kind of motivation we could do it).

Lets start this thing

ONTARIO IS A GREEK PROVINCE!!!

Hey people. Get with it. Everybody wants a piece of us

eg http://www.antibaro.gr/society/xatzakhs_tourkikabiblia.php

or maybe

http://ermionh.blogspot.com/2006_12_01_archive.html

To fisne oloi kai den krionei


I just looooove fishing!!! Its all in the bait
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stavrakas90
September 15, 2007, 11:46pm Report to Moderator

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Ki ustera sou lene giati ginesai ratsistis!! Me auta pou akous apo tous tritokosmikous metanastes, einai dunaton na min trelenesai!!?? Se ena teuxos tin efimeridas "Xrush Augh" egrafe oti oi Albanoi isxurizontan oti o Megas Aleksandros itan Albanos!!! Ymarton!!!! Ti allo tha akousoume? O Megas Aleksandros einai Ellinas oso kai na lene to antitheto!  Oso gia tou allous tous bromotourkous pante autoktoniste oso einai kairos. Den ksero pote alla tha paixtei trelo skiniko me tous Tourkous! Ligo oi mlkies me ta Imia
ligo to ena ligo to allo, ton blepo ton polemo na erxetai!

60.000.000 Τούρκοι περιμένουν στην πόρτα, λέμε: ΟΧΙ !!! Η Τουρκία δεν ανήκει στην Ευρώπη!!
Πρωτοβουλία Ευρώπη ενάντια στην Τουρκία


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eyoismos
September 17, 2007, 12:37pm Report to Moderator
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Stavro

Ta Greklish sou ta katalava
alla meta ta 60.000.000 vlepo arloupmes pou mono i KIP tha katlavei. kati egine kai den bgainoune sosta

Dokimasa na grapso sta ellinika kai i istoselida den epitrepei ellinika gia kapoio logo
(dokimase se ala meroi kai doulevei kanonika)

milise sta afentika na to diorthosoun se parakalo


I just looooove fishing!!! Its all in the bait
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eyoismos
September 17, 2007, 1:01pm Report to Moderator
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maybe not hellenism's fault

all 3 of my browsers - IE, firefox and opera wont let me write in greek. something has screwed with my system, so apologies (although it works fine with apps like word, etc)

but your second part did come arloumpes. what are others seeing?


I just looooove fishing!!! Its all in the bait
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eyoismos
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Γαμ..... μιλάμε για γυναίκες οδηγούς κάπου αλλού ..... Η γυναικα η δικιά μου έχει αλλάξει τα πάντα στον υπολογιστή μου .... και έχει την αναίδεια να επιμένει οτι δεν έχει κάνει τίποτα

Οχι μονο οι γυναίκες μακριά απο αυτοκίνητα.... μακριά και απο τους υπολογιστές



Συγγνώμη παιδιά


I just looooove fishing!!! Its all in the bait
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stavrakas90
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Hmm tora pou to paratiro oute kiego mporo na do auta pou egrapsa eno ta dika sou ta diabazo kanonika!


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admin
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Mallon xrisimopoieis kapoio diaforetiko encoding type.

Τα δικά μου Ελληνικά δουλεύουν κανονικά


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jen
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Quoted from stavrakas90, posted September 15, 2007, 11:46pm at here
Ki ustera sou lene giati ginesai ratsistis!! Me auta pou akous apo tous tritokosmikous metanastes, einai dunaton na min trelenesai!!?? Se ena teuxos tin efimeridas "Xrush Augh" egrafe oti oi Albanoi isxurizontan oti o Megas Aleksandros itan Albanos!!! Ymarton!!!! Ti allo tha akousoume? O Megas Aleksandros einai Ellinas oso kai na lene to antitheto!  Oso gia tou allous tous bromotourkous pante autoktoniste oso einai kairos. Den ksero pote alla tha paixtei trelo skiniko me tous Tourkous! Ligo oi mlkies me ta Imia
ligo to ena ligo to allo, ton blepo ton polemo na erxetai!

60.000.000 Τούρκοι περιμένουν στην πόρτα, λέμε: ΟΧΙ !!! Η Τουρκία δεν ανήκει στην Ευρώπη!!
Πρωτοβουλία Ευρώπη ενάντια στην Τουρκία




i see numbers, is this greek male code or something? lol
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jen
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Quoted from eyoismos, posted September 17, 2007, 1:33pm at here
Γαμ..... μιλάμε για γυναίκες οδηγούς κάπου αλλού ..... Η γυναικα η δικιά μου έχει αλλάξει τα πάντα στον υπολογιστή μου .... και έχει την αναίδεια να επιμένει οτι δεν έχει κάνει τίποτα

Οχι μονο οι γυναίκες μακριά απο αυτοκίνητα.... μακριά και απο τους υπολογιστές



Συγγνώμη παιδιά


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stavrakas90
September 19, 2007, 3:42am Report to Moderator

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Oso gia ta grammata den mporo na katalabo ti paizei!!










Auto tha to deiksei?
Στου κουφού την πόρτα κράτα και μικρό καλάθι!!!


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admin
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Ναι αυτό δουλεύει.


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J.J.Guytanos
November 24, 2007, 5:32am Report to Moderator
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Demosthenes certainly didn't consider the Macedonians greek.  He did indeed call them barbarians in his Philippics.  

The macedonians before Philip the Great were a joke to the greeks.  A very weak and poor nation that had tried for decades to earn acceptance as a greek state, with little success.  Macedon even sided with Persia against greece at one point during this period. Clearly, the ancient greeks held macedonians in great contempt and did not at all consider them to be greek.  This, however, applies to the common macedonians.  The aristocracy of macedon WAS mostly greek.  Alexander and the royal family were indeed greek.  Alexander's mother, of course, was from Epirus.  So while the common people of Macedon were not fully "greek", they were certainly ruled by greeks.  

It was Philip who turned Macedon from a backwards joke of a nation into a world powerhouse.  It was the army that Philip had trained which Alexander took to the far ends of the world.  Philip may truly be the most underrated general and leader in world history simply because he has been overshadowed by his titanic son.
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J.J.Guytanos
November 24, 2007, 5:37am Report to Moderator
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There is a famous quote by Alexander that enraged his common troops.  In a slight to his macedonian fellows, he said of them "Don't you think that greeks go among macedonians as gods among beasts?"

This is a telling comment.  Alexander certainly considered himself (and other greeks) to be above the macedonian common people, who he clearly did not consider greek either from this statement.
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eyoismos
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Your arguments only just remind me of those Greeks, during the exchange of populations with turkey, where referred to as Turks by the other greeks. so many couldn't even speak Greek, but thought of themselves as greek.

Then the slaves of Sparta, were they not Greek?. Your analogy of the "people" of Macedonia seems to imply they they too should not be Greeks. Its called motivational speaking. How often did the Athenians look down on the Spartans, with similar speaches, and vice versa? Its a Dorian/Ionian/Aeolian/etc thing

and as for "siding with Persia"......man! how many Greeks didn't? How many of those ostracized didn't ho to the courts of Persia for example?

Arguments and counter arguments. I'm sick of them. And I am often enfuriated by them.

Fact remains, he forged the whole of the east Hellenistic  NOT "Macedonian". (read as in Athens conquering the traditional Greek states at one point in history, they were NOT "Athiniazed" if there is such a word)


The rest is just, and to say it politely, irrelevant (except to those who think they are trying to find an identity)


I just looooove fishing!!! Its all in the bait
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J.J.Guytanos
November 24, 2007, 5:39pm Report to Moderator
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I'm not talking about modern macedonians.  Ethnically speaking, they have mixed with slavs and thracians and illyrians over the years so much that considering them either greek OR Macedonian by ancient standards is a mistake.  I'm merely saying that the ancient greeks clearly did not consider the ancient macedonians to be greek.  This is really not in dispute.  I am not macedonian.  I am an american greek (my father was from mainland greece) and am looking at this with detachment and clarity
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eyoismos
November 24, 2007, 7:50pm Report to Moderator
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With a name like Guytanos, i didn't think you might be FYROMian or any other name they may decide on in the future (just a correction to remember - which I assume is what you were referring to).

Again, I remind you of the exchange of masses and how they Greeks from Turkey were referred to by the Greeks themselves. Yes the traditional ancient Greeks did not consider the ancient Macedonians to be be Greek. I agree. this is not disputed. What is disputed if they actually were. Today the butt of all jokes are about the Pontians who ...well are not exactly embraced, and yet, they consider themselves as greek and rightfully so, are offended by the mainlanders. A similar feeling is with Greeks and Cypriots, and only remember reality when they need each other.

Furthermore, as far as i remember, there was at least one winner on the podium of the ancient Greek Olympic games, participation to which was forbidden to the "barbarians", as in non-greeks

Besides, and i might be wrong, when was royalty in antiquity from one region different to the conquered nation, AND was not incorporated in the conquerer's "government". And I say this, because it is debated by soem, that the royalty of Macedonia were Greek, but the subjects were not. If this is so, it would be bloody unique in world history. But I don't know if I could ever accept this - it doesn't gel. The royalty....yes, they were educated, but show me something viable that the subjects were "different". There is none, at least any conclusive proof

No. I cannot believe that ancient Macedonia was not Greek. It doesn't make sense otherwise


I just looooove fishing!!! Its all in the bait
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admin
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Instead of arguing about this I'll just list what the ancient Greeks and Macedonians thought about the subject.

"For I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Greece change her freedom for slavery." (Herod. IX, 45, 2) - Alexander I, grandfather of Alexander the Great.

The country by the sea which is now called Macedonia... Alexander, the father of Perdiccas, and his forefathers, who were originally Temenidae from Argos"
(Thucydides 99,3)

"Men of Athens...
Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have come to tell you; but I am myself Hellene by descent, and I would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slavery....
If you prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the Hellenic cause, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians.
I am Alexander of Macedon."
(Herodotus, The Histories, 9.45)  - From the speech of Alexander I, when he was admitted to the Olympic games (NOTE: only Greeks were allowed to participate in the Olympic games).

Now, as for what the Athenians thought, you have to remember that ancient Athenians saw themselves as the "cream of the cream" amongst Greeks. In their minds their society was by far superior than that of the Spartans or Macedonians or any other Greek city state. So the "less educated" Macedonian people arguably looked like "barbarians" in the eyes of Athenians who as a society were a million miles ahead of ancient Macedonians at the time.

To make a parallel in today's terms, it's like comparing an educated Athenian to some goat herder from some remote village of Greece. Sure, both of them are Greek, but in the eyes of the educated Athenian the villager looks like a barbarian.

The FACT that ancient Macedonians spoke Greek, believed in the same gods as all other Greeks, they shared the same culture, and most importantly they spread this language, religion and culture to all the places they conquered shows beyond any doubt what the ancient Macedonians thought about themselves. They clearly saw themselves as Greeks. Exactly like the Athenians or the Spartans etc. saw themselves as Greeks.

At their time they all referred to themselves as Athenians, Spartans, Macedonians, Thebans etc. However, they clearly also understood that they were of the same stock and they were quite different than the Persians, the Assyrians, the Egyptians etc.

There's no point to talk about the slavs at this point since they migrated to the area much much later and they have NOTHING to do with the ancient Macedonians. They just happen to live today in an area that used to be part of ancient Macedonia. If they can claim to be Macedonians then so can people from Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Egypt. Even India!

In a matter of fact, ethnically it's possible that there are more people of Macedonian decent in all these countries than there are in the area that is "euphemistically" called "Macedonia" today.


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J.J.Guytanos
November 24, 2007, 8:12pm Report to Moderator
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"Besides, and i might be wrong, when was royalty in antiquity from one region different to the conquered nation"

There were the Ptolemy's of Egypt, greeks who ruled over the people of Egypt.  The Selucid's of course were greeks who ruled over persians.  My understanding of history is that Alexander and his ancestors were greek who ruled over the Macedonians, and the macedonians were genetically more similar to thracians than greeks.  
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This is far from true. Ancient Macedonians considered themselves Greeks exactly like ancient Athenians, ancient Spartans (and ancient Thracians...) considered themselves Greeks.

Remember that there was no such thing as Greece as we understand it today at that time. The term Greeks and Greece was used much looser and it was used by all those people who shared the same language and same culture.

All archaeological excavations in ancient Macedonia to this day clearly show that the people of the area spoke Greek, worshiped the same gods, and shared the same culture as all other Greek city states. What other proof do you need?


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Admin you said it all. The only difference is that I was to lazy to search the net for references, or I couldn't be bothered to regurgitate the same things over and over again


Quoted from J.J.Guytanos, posted November 24, 2007, 8:12pm at here
"Besides, and i might be wrong, when was royalty in antiquity from one region different to the conquered nation"

There were the Ptolemy's of Egypt, greeks who ruled over the people of Egypt.  The Selucid's of course were greeks who ruled over persians.  My understanding of history is that Alexander and his ancestors were greek who ruled over the Macedonians, and the macedonians were genetically more similar to thracians than greeks.  



Ah Yes, but initially? All part of the empire of Alexander. His generals decided to split things up. (now imagine if they didn't, and maybe created a committee, a council if you will, to govern the empire..... imagine the possibilities). Now as far as your counter argument it concerned, was there such a case as far as Ancient Macedonia was concerned?

And as for Thrace, are you saying it wasn't Greek as well. Poor Orpheus would turn in his grave!


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Thrace was part of greece after alexander conquered it, but the people of thrace were an ethnic group apart from greeks.  

There is no way to answer this question at the moment, but you raise another interesting point.  What if the greeks had united instead of splitting up?  Would a united greece have been conquered by the Romans?  I should think not.  The weakness of the greeks has always been our failure to unite.
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November 26, 2007, 9:03am Report to Moderator
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Thrace was Greek even before Alexander was a twinkle in his father's eye

Orpheus alone was...... well ....look it up


Even one of the 12 Olympic Gods, Dionysus, is said to have come from Thrace (ok Zeus as usual did his thing, but that's another story)

JJ don't you thing you should read a little more on these things


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J.J.Guytanos
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Is it your contention that the thracians were greeks?  There were, of course, greek settlements in the region we call thrace, but to call the region of thrace a greek region is a stretch.  
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The ancient greeks were the most adventurous men of their age by far.  They had settlements as far west as gaul and as far east as india.  
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Ok I'll give you that. Greeks have sowed the seed everywhere

But when Orpheus and Dionysus alone are examples of Thrace being Greek ..... What cause re you trying to champion?

I mean, even Homer mentions Thrace? Fair enough, they where mentioned as allies of Troy,  (why wouldn't they be - they were a stone throw away from Troy) but then on the other hand, he also mentioned they were descendants of the Greek god Ares

How far do you want to go? The so called -Indo-European descent?

From what I remember from history actually, the Thracian would have been defined by the like of the refined Athens, barbaric, but then, like Admin suggested, a villager would be seen as low class. Are we suggesting ancient greece was only comprised of only the "high class" thats very naive an outlook. (I'm not suggesting that that you are looking at things like that - only the way you seem to portray them seems to imply that)

Maybe we should look at things on a different level. Ancient Thrace, by some, extended up to the Danube.  To me that's pushing it, no matter which way one might see it. Next the some others could easily say that the whole Balkans were greek, which again would be absurd.


Where is the border? Too many areas could easily be seen as "boundaries"

Here is another angle. If Thrace was not greek, they definitely did a hell-of-an-influence on ancient greece, with all their tribes/city-states, and yet, they left very little behind, so  if the where a seperate identity, and did such a number (as in big influence) on the ancient greeks, one would think they would have left some evidence behind - but so little was left behind.

No, more likely they were part and parcel of the greek tribes, who just "developed" separately.

And then there is the acid test. There is even mentioned there are Thracian winners on the podium in the Ancient Olympic games




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Democritos was also born in Thrace, in the Athenian colony of Abdera.

I think we've discussed this in a different subject: it's very hard to define the background of all people that lived in the Balkans and most specifically in the area that we today call mainland Greece.

Obviously ancient Thracians, ancient Macedonians, ancient Athenians, Spartans, Thebans etc. etc. were all "related" since they all came from the same ancestry, the same tribes. I'm talking about the Ionian, the Aeolian, the Dorian and the Achaean tribes.

The Spartans were of Dorians descent, as were the Macedonians and probably the Thracians as well. The Athenians were of Ionian descent, as were the Greeks of Asia Minor.

Again, after so much intermixing in the area since ancient times it would be almost impossibe to pin point the exact lineage of the people of a specific area in the Greek mainland.

We know for certain that in historical times the Thracians fought under Alexander the Great to spread the "Hellenic" civilization to the rest of the world, therefore they must have thought of themselves as "Hellenes" as did the Macedonians, the Athenians, the Spartans etc.


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Overall I agree

BUT

Quoted from admin, posted November 27, 2007, 11:06am at here


We know for certain that in historical times the Thracians fought under Alexander the Great to spread the "Hellenic" civilization to the rest of the world, therefore they must have thought of themselves as "Hellenes" as did the Macedonians, the Athenians, the Spartans etc.


that argument sucks. Why? because one could just as well say that they sided with the Persians (before Macedonia was even an entity) therefore they must have though of themselves as Persians

or

They fought along the side of Troy, therefore......

that argument does not go down at all with me


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That's true. It is possible that they were forced to fight for Alexander.


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I agree there were greeks living in thrace.  I'm saying that the "Thracian" people as we know them today were not related to the greeks.   They were closer in relation to the persians than the hellenes
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from wikipedia:

"Modern historiography linguistically classifies Thracians as an Indo-European people of the Eastern (satem) subgroup, which links them to Iranians, Slavs and Balts. Similarities with the ancient Iranian peoples (Scythians, Cimmerians, Sarmatians) are further confirmed by historical and archaeological evidence of early Thracian material culture, way of life, crafts, works of art and burial practices."
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Slavs?????
Oi oi...

I can easily log in wikipedia and change this article to say that the ancient Thracians were 100% Greeks. Wikipedia is not the best resource to learn about the subject.


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Quoted from J.J.Guytanos, posted November 27, 2007, 2:58pm at here
I agree there were greeks living in thrace.  I'm saying that the "Thracian" people as we know them today were not related to the greeks.   They were closer in relation to the persians than the hellenes


Why Persian? why not bulgarian, or Turkish?

You did say "Thracian" people as we know them today

If anything, the probably/easily/realistically have origins from the four corners of their little universe called thrace.

The real question is what do thracians today view of themselves.

A loaded question

Greek, Turkish, Bulgarian, depending on........etc etc etc. But Persian, never. not this century


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November 27, 2007, 3:12pm Report to Moderator
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just went through the posts, and I suspect they is a slight shift in your position.

Or is it more of I haven't quite caught onto your "mindset" of your views?


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I understand greece is trying to reverse migration of Greeks from the United States.  I've often considered moving back to greece, but my greek is very poor and I can't read it at all.  i'd be concerned about the job situation.  I know greece uses the euro, does it still use old greek currency at all?  How many Euro's is a decent apt. in Athens?
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Thracians of today would have very little in common genetically with the ancient thracians of Alexander's day.  It's a mistake to confuse shared cultural aspects with being of the same ethnic group.  The Romans basically used the same gods as greece, just with different names.  The greeks would identify their gods with the gods of other nations.  For instance, Alexander equated Amun with Zeus.  Since the greeks had such a powerful culture, it's only natural that it would spread and be adopted by less poweful cultures.  
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You know, I had never heard that bit about the thracians being descended from Ares, that's interesting though.  Hey I could be wrong.  Perhaps your sources are better than mine.
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Quoted Text
I understand greece is trying to reverse migration of Greeks from the United States.  I've often considered moving back to greece, but my greek is very poor and I can't read it at all.  i'd be concerned about the job situation.  I know greece uses the euro, does it still use old greek currency at all?  How many Euro's is a decent apt. in Athens?


Aha! the crux of the matter. A greek trying to refind his Greekness.

Makes a little more sense now


And before you might jump to conclusions, I mean no disrespect, or irony, or any other negative connotation.

Just an observation

But I have to ask you this, How many generations back are you?

In a way, it fulfills my little pet theory,...no matter how far you take a greek away from his roots, no matter how much you re-mold him in "foreign ways", something in his/her heart says "i don't belong here" and has this inexplicable urge to return home to his "Ithaki"


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my father was pure greek.  He was a musician, very rowdy and rough sort.  As he was the only member of his family to move to America, and he died when I was young, I really have very little information about him, other than what my mother knows, which is that his family was from mainland greece.   My mother is english.  
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Honestly, i'm a very unemotional person, but the first time I saw a picture of Athens when I was 16 it brought tears to my eyes with how beautiful it was.  I've always felt a strong connection with my greek roots.  When I was a child here in America, one of the things we went over in gradeschool was the Odyssey, and that was the first thing that really fired my imagination.  I used to sit and draw pictures from the odyssey for hours.  I've never really connected with English culture, to be honest, and I find the land in america to be very dull and ugly.  
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Well, for a start I would suggest that you learn more about your father's background and maybe find some of your relatives in Greece.

Then visit for a vacation to see the place he came from, and to meet your relatives in person. Who knows, maybe you'll fall in love with Greece and end up staying there for good.

You're not going to be the first, and you're definitely not going to be the last to do so.


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November 28, 2007, 3:18am Report to Moderator
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good advice that

But I suspect you are pretty much wanting to do that, considering your first post here at hellenism.net


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Honestly, it's difficult because of how little information I have, and because I suspect those assholes at ellis island changed my father's last name somewhat to make it sound more american.
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Your real Greek names is probably Gaitanos (where G use a Greek "gama", so when pronounced you have to use a soft "y" sound).

It's a pretty common last name in Greece, so if you don't know the exact location your dad came from it's going to be hard to find any relatives.

Ask your mother about your dad's passport or any birth certificates. His place of birth should be mentioned there.


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eyoismos
November 29, 2007, 11:39am Report to Moderator
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How's your greek JJ

I was listening to my greek music, and one of them was sung by a Petros Gaitanos, Πέτρος Γαϊτάνος, and I thought.....mmm? maybe a case of apple under the apple tree

Just an idea. family tends to follow family trends perhaps, so if your father was a musician, maybe his background has something to do with that

I feel for you dude. Its gonna be a long hard slog. Best of luck.

I think, though, the best idea is what Admin suggested. Take a holiday to Greece. Just a holiday, and see how it goes


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thanks for the help
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Quoted from Spaga, posted February 11, 2006, 2:47pm at here
Macedonia was the winner and 'll be. ALEXANDER III MACEDONIAN THE GREAT is the greatest macedonian warrior. tou was kissing the FILIP's foots. you was nothing and you never be better than us - MACEDONIA.


Alexander the Great considered himself as a Greek! He fought for GREECE NOT MACEDONIA! He spread Hellenism, he called it spreading GREEK CULTURE!
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Hi Macedonec! Greatings from Russia!
Sorry but you are wrong.
The truth is - you are bulgarian but your ancestors mixed up with Illyrians, thracian and macedonian. The people from non greek Macedonia have 30% slavian genes and 70% genes of the autochon or nativ people from the Balkans. But your culture and your language is not greek. This means you may have (eventualy) same genes with the Macedonians but culturaly you are Bulgarian.
But Alexandros was Greek - he spoke greek, he thought greek, he folowed greek traditions.
I don't understand you guys. In Russia people respect greek history and are proud of russian history, but if I see how you guys act, it looks to me like you are jelaous at greek history. Be proud on your own history


How glorious fall the valiant, sword in hand, in front of battle for their native land! TYRTAEUS (Sparta, 7th century BC)
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I think I know what is the problem of the nongreek-macedonians:
In their own country the albanian ultra-nationalists are overtaking.
And instead to clarify the problems in your country ( or too look for joint solutions together with Serbia and Greece, because they have the same problems), you make your self bigger as you are.


How glorious fall the valiant, sword in hand, in front of battle for their native land! TYRTAEUS (Sparta, 7th century BC)
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