Hard work is what will make you realize your dreams.
If your dream is to go back to Greece then make this your primary goal and work hard towards making this come through.
When I decided to move to Canada I did exactly what you describe above. I had to step out of my comfort zone and do something "crazy". Then one thing led to the other, I put my life in order, met my wife, found a good job etc. and things went well for me.
I've taken many chances in my life, not all of them worked out ok, but I strongly believe that people need to take chances. This is what makes life interesting and worth living.
In my case, if I really wanted to go back to Greece I guess the "excuses" I've come up with (kids being comfortable here, good job, good life in Canada) wouldn't stop me. I guess in reality I may not really want to go back (yet!).
Who knows, one day the idea may mature in my head and make my move.
I agree with you that hard work is the best way to realise your dreams.
I think you are thinking of it maturely and thats why you are not unsettled and not willing to go to Greece. I believe the "ecxuses" you mentioned above are very good reasons for basing your decision. Why would you risk all that for a move to Greece? And as far as your kids are concerned it is best not to unsettle them either. My parents were going back and forth Greece-Australia and that really affected both me and my sister.
I remember I first got to AU when I was 8yo. My life in Greece was amazing, playing with the kids in the gitonia day and night etc. When we got to AU we were misserable becaue it was such a big change for us ... we didn't even know the language. I remember I used to write letters to my friends in Greece and give them to my mother to send them. At 15yo we went back to Greece. Once again it was very difficult to adjust but I did eventually and adopted the lifestyle of a Greek again. It was very hard in terms of education, language etc. At 19yo we got back to AU. Ante pali apo tin arhi. Once again it took a while to adjust. Eventually I did, made good fiends, completed Uni etc. But because I lived my best years in Greece, and adopted the Greek mentality (in a sense) I was always unsettled here.
Theo, if you really feel "unsettled" in Australia then this is probably a good indication that you're ready to take your chances and go back to Greece.
I hope the toppic is not closed,or "useless",or something else.... I,live in Greece,and i can "feel" all the other Greeks(arround the world). The only thing i do not "get" is how is it possible for many people to remain in their country(though the economic problems)(or the domestic economic problems that may occur...)having NOT any wills of migration..... I don't mean to be rude to anyone,but in my opinion,if economic issues appear that doesn't mean you move without a second chance.(third,fourth maybe....?)otherwise,Greece wouldn't exist anymore,or would not be consisted of original Greeks(no,i am not "Ellinaras",if you supossed so for me to be from the ones i write).Besides,if you can success abroad,why can't you just do it here?I admit my generation(i am almost 30)is a "lazy" one,but it's the one that will drive the country out of the crisis finally(so i don't think that someone can call me lazy)(i work more than all the other europeans,for less:insurance,money,no vacation,no "extras",less chances to live finally) AND THAT'S BECAUSE THERE'S NO S P A R E TIME,so i can do it....... Sorry to everyone if you got dissapointed,but that is the truth actually,MANY MILES away from the millionaire "ELITE",who drive expensive cars,has villas or palaces somewhere in Glyfada or Kolonaki in Athens,and spend their money to any garbage-at the same time other people may suffer,for euros..... and please,stop telling me that i created all this....cause from the day i was born,i listen to the same bullshit !(excuse me for the expression) thanks for reading.....what i wrote is completely real(at least about my conditions of living,and for another two hundred people i know) welcome to Greece!
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let me throw the question back at you, musicenergy
do YOU have "any wills for migration"....considering you have been suffering as you put it
(and i mean that in a tongue in chek kind of way)
and where did you get the idea that we greeks of the diaspora think that all greek are lazy?
you are being very harsh on us and by the same token unfair
yes we often criticize the fact that "apergies" and marches is a national sport in greece......but at the same token, when those greek back home get offended by this characterization......oh how conveniently they forget who put them in that position.....yourselves
we didn't and still don't have the vote
alla perimene
10 ekatomiria stin ellada.... alla deka ekso
otan i ellada ipologisei tous ellines sto eksoteriko SAN ellines....tote...... tha deis polla
akoma kai tin epsitrofi pollon, me OLA ta epakoloutha
in the mean time we put up with the scorn we often get with labels as "amerikanakia", "Afstralezakia" "afrikanakia" ....kai ola ta alla "-akia".....but we all know, those in the diaspora.....those back home NEED us.....JUST as much as we need them
We are ONE.....and when BOTH "sides" realize this and accept this ..... "fovou ton Ellina!!!!!"
Quoted from eyoismos, posted July 30th, 2010, 6:11pm at here
let me throw the question back at you, musicenergy
do YOU have "any wills for migration"....considering you have been suffering as you put it
(and i mean that in a tongue in chek kind of way)
and where did you get the idea that we greeks of the diaspora think that all greek are lazy?
you are being very harsh on us and by the same token unfair
yes we often criticize the fact that "apergies" and marches is a national sport in greece......but at the same token, when those greek back home get offended by this characterization......oh how conveniently they forget who put them in that position.....yourselves
we didn't and still don't have the vote
alla perimene
10 ekatomiria stin ellada.... alla deka ekso
otan i ellada ipologisei tous ellines sto eksoteriko SAN ellines....tote...... tha deis polla
akoma kai tin epsitrofi pollon, me OLA ta epakoloutha
in the mean time we put up with the scorn we often get with labels as "amerikanakia", "Afstralezakia" "afrikanakia" ....kai ola ta alla "-akia".....but we all know, those in the diaspora.....those back home NEED us.....JUST as much as we need them
We are ONE.....and when BOTH "sides" realize this and accept this ..... "fovou ton Ellina!!!!!"
my FRIEND,believe me(because the followings are part of the REAL truth): i never faced anyone who comes to visit my country as "afstralaki","amerikanaki",or something like "aki"(it doesn't matter where he/she/ is from,POSO MALLON TOYS ELLINES TOY EKSOTERIKOY!!!)-MY presence in this forum can prove what i say. i don't think that the society faced anyone of you as a "xeno",when you come to Greece for holidays!(isa isa,i personally have a special feeling for all of you,abroad because i know VERY WELL that you can also be a "stranger" in your own f...country-and that's how i feel nowadays,having all these "governers" commit HUGE crimes on my back!) i am not responsible on how a government faces you(i ain't the government at all,if you can understand this!!!) about the strikes,BE 100% SURE,that it is impossible to "suffer"(as you understood that i wrote)and participate to a strike the same time(because the boss will fire you,without a second thought!) (sorry,didn't mean to put it that way-that "i suffer"-,cause i have a small piece of "filotimo" inside,and i don't like to "cry" myself,or look poor.if that was the picture you got though from my words above,i am terribly sorry,but it is TRUE!) the people who make the strikes,probably have reasons to do it. half of them,are going to loose earlier priviledges,the other half want just to make a comfussion for the country,and ONLY a small part want REALLY to protest against the typhoon of price rising and REAL social problems. On the other hand,put now the majority who want to work,produce,live..... i am terribly sorry if the media abroad show another "view" of the greek reality,but i never drove a mercedes,i have not million of euros in the bank,and i never participated on a strike myself. have a really good day,and don't be furius to judge.look a bit behind the vitrine,ask a few people you trust and they live here,and may be then you can have a better image of the currents.thank u.
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oh i am very well aware of reality, unlike some who have not turned up their noses to where they came from (and believe me, there are a few - fortunately nowhere near the majority)
like i would automatically believe the garbage of thr "Anglo" controlled international media
seems you have grasped the wrong end of the stick of what we abroad percieve about the goings on back home but you quite adequately put it into perspective of what most of us away from home fully well know, and that is
Quoted Text
On the other hand,put now the majority who want to work,produce,live.....
as for the "-akia" reference....deep down in side.... you KNOW how many every day people look upon those greeks from abroad. hell.... i have experienced it myself, so i talk with the experience that "fate" has thrown at me, not once or twice, either
we wont go into "governments" and all that.....we ALL have experienced all their wrong doing, one way or another......but the fact is, those back home.......while we away......(fill in the gaps accordingly)
AGAIN....i would like to point out
10 million back home and another 10 "outside"
and when WE think in terms of "WE".......etc
THAT is one hell of a hurdle to overcome......from both ends of the spectrum
oh,be sure there are not any(black and white answers) (if i got your point well). i still cannot believe that many people behave the way you wrote to all of you. and yes i didn't answer your previews question straight(as i should)! so,the question was "if i have any wills of migration"(?) i thought of leaving this land when i was 25-26 years old,but not now.... why not (now)? because i know very well that THIS IS THE PLAN ! many years ago,a big politician in England(i think his name was Churchil-not sure if i spell the name well) said something like:"Greek nation is arrogant enough (because of our great past)for someone who will try to lead it"...."so what shall we do if we want to control them?,we should hit them on their history,religion,and EDUCATION of course so we can easily bit them". as you can see,half of his dream is already true....... they managed to "win" and they finally control us(specially the economic part-->see "troika").(but economy is just the beggining,right?).well done to everyone of us,we managed to get somewhere,where only a Greek could approach! i am not sure of how much i took part on the decision(not me,but all of us)when euro entered the Greek economy.i can't either remember if somebody asked me,if i want or not, at all!) anyway,i can't just give it away(not before i fight for it,like my grandparents did--their own way of course,cause now the "war" is in an "advanced" level). and that's how i see it.....it is like a video game,but the difference is that it's true,and don't like to live with ilussions.besides,if i go abroad,i don't think the comunity will give me a "hug",so "xenos" in my country,and "xenos" abroad....what's the difference? better money/conditions of life/better benefits?.... but that's always me,and i don't refer to anyone of you(never meant to be rude from the beggining*)(not a single second). i will repeat once again: i disagree with all the people who -may be- face the Greeks abroad like the way you described,but i don't think this is the majority. a whole nation who accepts many strangers already,is impossible to react like this,specially to Greeks(no matter where you currently live & act) i don't know where in the world you live my firend,but in case you want further contact,please feel free to send a pm,with your e-mail attached so we can keep in contact.and always if you need info or help,feel also free to do the same. have a good day all of you out there!
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lets us at least start with some accuracy in what we say
Churchill NEVER said anything like that
but i would like to bring to the fore one of the many things he DID day
Quoted Text
"The farther backward you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see." - W.S. Churchill September 9, 1941
so.....pertaining to British politicians, .....looking back ..... they always said certain things that made us greeks feel good....but always stabbed us in the back, somehow. British politicians throughout history have proved to be ...... the greek word would be "ipouloi"
unlike most British citizens, at least the more educated ones..... byron comes to mind
coming back to the speech you where referring to....
Quoted Text
As reported in the popular Greek magazine, Oikonomikos Tachydromos on 14 Aug. l997, Henry Kissinger, while addressing a group of Washington, D.C. businessmen in Sept.1974, said:
The Greek people are anarchic and difficult to tame. For this reason we must strike deep into their cultural roots: Perhaps then we can force them to conform. I mean, of course, to strike at their language, their religion, their cultural and historical reserves, so that we can neutralize their ability to develop, to distinguish themselves, or to prevail; thereby removing them as an obstacle to our strategically vital plans in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East.
which brings us back to the quote by Churchill, that i stated above
do we blame the Americans now?
if we are narrow minded and react blindly, then it is easy to do so
but if you take heed of what churchill said, and seriously think about it......
right through our history, or certainly after we became a nations, we greeks ourselves have a very nasty habit.....we blame everybody but ourselves for the woes that fall upon us. we blame our so called allies, be they west or east, but never ourselves
for example many blame the west for our civil war after "the big one", and interfering in our internal affairs, yet WE had the civil war, not them
we blame our allies for failing us in the Smirni camaign, yet WE decided to go for Ankyra, (instead of listening to our generals and rather go for Constantinople instead), and WE decided to change governments at the time, which only pissed of our allies in the first place
we blame the Americans for the Junta, but ultimately WE are the ones that imposed it on ourselves
the list goes on
which brings us back to the speech by kissinger. First of all he always denied it categorically, second it has never been proven, though most of us are very willing to believe it as true,,,,especially considering the recent developments in all the afore mentioned fronts
What i say is....it is irrelevant if he said it or not, BUT if he was to make a controversial speech, he should have just said...."we dont need to do anything....we can leave it up to the greek to f*ch things up all by themselves, All we have to do is never encourage them to become united.....for then we will all endure what the Persians did"
and that is the point
right throughout history, to this day, we all STILL live with the city-state mentality......be it sparta vs Athens..... or PASOK vs ND
but ignore the big picture.....HELLAS
and sad to say.....we STILL perpetuate history
so i repeat for all of us to remember....and SERIOUSLY think about it
Quoted Text
"The farther backward you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see." - W.S. Churchill September 9, 1941
correct in most of the things you wrote,but i disagree that we can look "further backward"...unless if i don't get the exact meaning of it.i am not a politician you know,so "translation" of a wooden political speech is not my "best part"(besides who cares about it if the game is always between pasok and nd,as you also correctly refered too!)and yes...it was Kissinger,as you correctly mentioned above.and no...i don't blame anyone but our governers(and maybe their support team-americans,germans and whoever else is helping or had helped them throughout the years) (................please inform me if i am wrong in this part*). but it seems i am not the only one who finally understands what is going on) (hopefully...). i still don't know how the comunity abroad(and i'd like to have an answer on this if you can please)behaves to Greeks who decide to leave the country.... but i'd like to have a REAL answer and not just an answer that would be "politically correct"(or one that should fit the "ocassion") have a good day from Greece!
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I don't think i have quite understood your question
are you asking what we greek abroad think about greeks leaving home base, and "joining" us?
if so, at least from my experience, we tend to welcome them, and in a way understand why they left home, and generally help in one way or another, some a little, some a lot more.
but i will tell you this
we often, unfortunately, have the same sickness as those back home
ie. those "below" us, financially or otherwise, try and help to "bring up",,, but woe behold anybody who actually "dares" to surpass us, ....our ego kicks in, and we want to......"gremisei" them
a very sad affair
for we all, instead of pulling each other up, constantly want everybody else "below" us, all the while, when other REALLY surpass us, we get all proud and show off about "we the greeks...." and and all that.......in the mean time....between ourselves, its all "kous kous kous....kai xereis ti ekane afto kai afto)
diladi
ton ellina mporeis na ton vgaleis apo tin ellada.....alla tin ellada den mporeis na ton vgaleis apo ton ellina
hahahahha
ap' tin alli omos, kai pio sovari plevra,.....epeidi pragamato o ellinas den fovatai tin douleia, kai peftei me ta moutra tou gia na epitei......genika einai perizititos, pou leei o logos, kai tis perisoteres fores ehei megales epitihies
i diafora einai oti sto exoteriko.....o xenos kosmos ton "entharinei", popu leei o logos, alla distihos stin ellada, oi diafores kiveniseis....tou kovei ta podia tou kathenos me tin terasteia grafeiokratia, ta sihna anagaiafakelakia, kai oles oi alles m@lakies
pou me fernei stin kouventa gia ti mporoume na prosferoume atin ellada
prepei na katalavoume ena pragam oloi mas
alles oi anagkes tou xenitemenou kai alles tou "ntopiou". kai me aftin tin skepsi epanalamvano kano pou polloi antidrane askefta....den eimaste i lisi (etsi to akoune merikoi anoitoi" ....eimaste ena meros tis liseis
ti einai afto pou mas tin fernei sta akra me ta ntaraveria me tin ellada? to eipa pio pano san paradeigma....tin akraia grafeiokrateia
kirie....thelo na epistrepso stin ellada, kai na ependiso....i aplos thelo kati aplo pou dikaioume apolita, tin elliniki ithageia
kai mas stelnoun apo grafeio se grafeio, se allo grafeio, mas ta prizoun me anousies dikaiologies.....p.h. to grapto leei Helen, alla esi les eleni....dikastirio na bgei apofasi.....ase PARA polla para pola paradeigmata mporo na sou po, mono kai mono apo tis dikes mou empeiries......opote sto telos.....mas ktipa sto kefali kai leme polloi......"asihtir apo do here" kai ta paratame sto telos
kai ti thelo na po....dose mas tin psifo....kai ....theleis na mas diefkolineis......den xeroume kai den ehoume mathei me faklakia......an nai...oriste i psifos mas....an ohi.....de pate na gamitheite....vgazoume diko mas komma pou tha mas kanei tin diefkolinsi
tora tha mou peis .....ligo anoita ta les....ehouem pio polla sovara zitimata edo
kai ego apanto....eisai sigouros? kala....den ehei aganaktisei o idios o ellinas stin ellada me tetoia pou ehei rimaxei ton kosmo?
diavaze prin arketo kairo, gia kapoion arhitektona, pou ithele na arhisei mia dika tou mikri eteraiolula, etsi na vgalei to psomi tou, (prin merika hronia...sto vima an den kano lathos) kai tou vgalane to xidi....kai meta apo 6 mines akoma den mporese na arhisei o kakomoiris (den xreo ti egine sto telos....alla nomizo katalaves pou to pao)
na min ta plilogo (ase pou tosi ora mono logodiareia eho) opos eipa.....eimaste meros tis lisis.....eipame....10 ekatomiria eimaste kai emeis stin xeniteia......kai epeidi oi politikoi stin ellada den xreoun pos na mas damasoune EPEDEI den eimaste ekei......tous pianei fovos....den xeroun pos na mas antimetopisoune, gia na mas toupmaroune...EPEIDI telos panton ehoume megalosei kai ehoume ektethei se diaforetika dedomena tis "ellinikis pragmatikotitas"......kai hezontai na mas dosoune tin psifo.....dioti XEROUNE.....i doulevoune gia tin ELLADA.....i .... tha thaftoune apo ena kataklismo allo toson ellinon pou tha prosthetoun me aftous pou "doulevoune" tosa hronia
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mia stigmi....giati leo signomi?
esi ta zitises.....esi ta elaves......hahahahhahaha
omos sta sovara....prepei kai na katalaveis tin pikra pollon pou toso epithimoun na epistrepsoun i akoma kai na dosoun to tlanto tous gia tin ellada.....kai mono sfalares ehoume faei me ton kairo
alla toso peismatarides eimaste gia to ti eimaste.....pou AKOMA lahtaroume kai latrvoume tin ellada, kai to kalo tis, to kalon ton ellinon ekei, kai to kalo ton ellinon edo
ean ekprosopis tin foni ton ellinon sto eksoteriko,ena eho na po.mporo kai vlepo mia megali psihi poy distihos "lipi" apo ti hora!(distihos!) gia tin grafeiokratia:min nomizeis oti emeis edo ta ehoyme ola sto heri mas(opos eipes me to paradeigma me ton arhitektona pio pano,poy ithele na ksekinisi tin eteria toy)eides loipon?! i idia antimetopisi einai kai gia oloys emas edo,min nomizeis oti eimaste kai poli diaforetika.... soy eipa kai pio prin: ksenos stin patrida moy,kai stin ellada ksenos (opos leei kai to tragoydi)....ego eite stin ellada zo,eite ekso na zoysa to idio pisteyo oti tha me antimetopizan oi governers.alloste,den iparhoyn pleon governers alla "stars". every country has it's own: in italy it is berluskoni,in france it is nicola sarkozi(feat carla bruney)(opos leme beyonce feat jenifer lopez....?). in Greece we have karamanlis feat papandreoy(it hasn't change for years.)it is always the same grey duet.but.......there's an end to everything...i hope. let's see...no,why don't we just f...ourselves/lifes working and seeing(i think that's a good option,because WE,"the blessed nation" should be bored of ourselves otherwise... about your answer on how the community abroad faces a greek who decides to leave Greece: i was sure that you would give this answer from the begining(and that's the reason i have asked*)o ellinas einai ellinas loipon,alla mesa stin psihi toy,ektos apo zilia kai fthono gia ton diplano toy poy paei forward apo ayton,iparhi kai i kali psihi.ayto einai i oysia,kai ohi na katigoroyme toys edo oti den sas theloyn. eho tin oikogeneia moy kai toys filoys moy edo,kai den me anagkazei kanenas na mpaino sto hellenism.to kano epeidi to thelo.kai kathe allos poy einai koinonika eyaisthitopoiimenos,to idio tha ekane pisteyo. prosopika me odigise edo i aporia moy sto pos zite kai skefteste eseis ekei ekso.ma den vlepo kammia megali diafora so far..... esto....den pirazei.kalimera apo tin patrida!
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I just looooove fishing!!! Its all in the bait
