When someone emigrates to (Canada, the U.S., Australia) they seemingly have a whole world of opportunities available to them. They can start a business, raise a family, and even become Canadian/American/Australian Citizens…This making us Greek Canadian, Greek American or Greek Australian. Since these countries are not based on any one culture or genetic ancestry, it is easy to just “be” Canadian/American/Australian, if you want to be.
Yet Greece has recently become a country that has taken in a large number of immigrants, especially from African and Middle Eastern countries, but the cultural identity hasn’t changed. You are what you are in Greece, and even second and third generation children of immigrants don’t seem to be able to call themselves Greek in the same way they’d be able to be Canadian/American/Australian.
This is a question to all the Greek Immigrants - So what does being Greek mean to you?
Well, Greece is a country that was not based in immigration as was Canada, US and Australia. So the ethnic feeling of being Greek is still strong.
I believe that over the years, if immigration continues at the same pace, then third or fourth generation Chinese people born in Greece will consider themselves Greeks, and Greeks will see them as Greeks as well.
The "do you feel Greek" question is very hard to answer, even for people born in Greece like myself. Do I feel Greek right now as I'm sitting in my office, somehwere in Canada, in front of my computer screen? I sure do...but when I visit Greece people can tell that I'm "xenos" even though I speak Greek fluently (and correctly..., I know more than most people about Greek history, mythology and culture.
As years go passing by I, myself, start getting this feeling that I somehow don't belong anywhere anymore. I'm Greek, but I'm not the same as the Greeks living in Greece right now, and I'm Canadian, but I'm not the same as the Canadians living in Canada right now. I like seeing myself as a citizen of the world.
My travelling and living abroad for so many years have made me appreciate the diversity of our world.
What s this that makes us Greeks so special? Are we better than Italians, or Spanish, or Brazilians or Chinese etc.?
I do feel proud of my heritage, but I see us as a part of a beautiful mosaic of cultures. We're not any better or worse than any other culture. We're just who we are. Our ancestors were lucky to live in an area where they had the chance to prosper and create a unique culture. This culture evolved to become the basis of western civilization as we know it today. Of course this is a reason of great pride for all of us today, but then we have to move forward.
As Greeks in the new millenium what can we offer to the rest of the world? What can we do to make this world a better place? And what do we have to offer to ourselves, to our kids, and to our own culture?
Quoted from admin, posted October 11th, 2007, 9:47am at here
As years go passing by I, myself, start getting this feeling that I somehow don't belong anywhere anymore. I'm Greek, but I'm not the same as the Greeks living in Greece right now, and I'm Canadian, but I'm not the same as the Canadians living in Canada right now.
That was the point I wanted to get to...If we feel like we dont belong anywhere anymore, how will this affect our children? iF we (the people born in Greece) feel like xenoi, it scares me to think of our childrens future... How do we hold on to what is rightfully ours? Is dual citizenship the answer?
Dual citizenship is a way to keep a false hope that one day you may return to your ancestral lands. I am a dual citizen only for the hope that one day I may excercise my right to live in Greece again.
My kids also have dual citizenships. Will they ever want to move back and live in Greece? Very unlikely, and I'd probably advise them against it!
Being Greek though means much more than living in Greece, or hanging out with other Greeks.
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Quoted from admin, posted October 12th, 2007, 8:31am at here
Were you born in Greece as well???
Dual citizenship is a way to keep a false hope that one day you may return to your ancestral lands. I am a dual citizen only for the hope that one day I may excercise my right to live in Greece again.
My kids also have dual citizenships. Will they ever want to move back and live in Greece? Very unlikely, and I'd probably advise them against it!
Being Greek though means much more than living in Greece, or hanging out with other Greeks.
And why not may I ask? I mean why would you advise against it. (not that I suggest you should do the opposite either).
There is this wonderful story/fact, that I came across, though the details are fuzzy, but the moral is there.
There is this highly respected Greek surgeon from the States, who decided to go back to Greece to make a difference. He went to Athens to a respective hospital or other and applied for a job. Now the law of that particular institution was that all the faculties of the mdial profession represented there MUST approve of him. Eeverybody said yes. Everybody, that is, except the fott doctors, as the story goes, (read aftoi oi xenoi tha mas poune ti tha kanoume??. The man was, to say the least very disappointed. But did he say "F Greece, I'm off" ? Well, yeah to the first part. He went to thessaloniki, joint the university hospital there, and changed it around to such an extent, that it is now held in very high esteem.
The moral here is ....well.... F those that look at you as a xeno. I'm greek too and I will make a difference, you like it or not. And if you don't well F off
You see, it is those who wish or want not only to retain their heritage, but act on it too. It is people like that surgeon that makes a difference. This however is not a criticism on those who choose to wait and see, as in dual citizenship. Far from the truth. But rather a ....damn, what would be the right word for it.....maybe a gloriication of those who act on their convictions. And lets face it. They are very few and far between
The fact that we chose to leave Greece and live abroad shows that at some point in our lives we decided that Greece has nothing to offer us anymore, or we felt dissapointed that things don't "work" very well in Greece.
The story of the doctor you mention is admirable, but there are really very few "succesful" Greeks who would return to Greece to make a living for several reasons. From the "standard of living" argument (for most of us), to the limited research funding argument (for researchers and scientists) etc.
Unfortunately, other than plenty of sun and nice weather Greece has very little else to offer. For us, first generation Greeks, Greece is a place we idealized after we left. It's like the "promised land" of the Jews. Only when we go back we discover that the "promised land" is really a desert that has little to offer.
Quoted from admin, posted October 12th, 2007, 8:31am at here
Were you born in Greece as well???
Yes, i was born in Greece, spend the first few years of my life there, (my father had family here in Australia, thats why we returned here for this so called "better way of life"
My concern is for the children i will have, i dont want them to be seen as Australian, thats my biggest fear ( however im considering flying over and giving birth there lol)
will dual citizenship ever be denied to second and third generaion Greeks?
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Quoted from admin, posted October 12th, 2007, 11:32am at here
The fact that we chose to leave Greece and live abroad shows that at some point in our lives we decided that Greece has nothing to offer us anymore, or we felt dissapointed that things don't "work" very well in Greece.
The story of the doctor you mention is admirable, but there are really very few "succesful" Greeks who would return to Greece to make a living for several reasons. From the "standard of living" argument (for most of us), to the limited research funding argument (for researchers and scientists) etc.
Unfortunately, other than plenty of sun and nice weather Greece has very little else to offer. For us, first generation Greeks, Greece is a place we idealized after we left. It's like the "promised land" of the Jews. Only when we go back we discover that the "promised land" is really a desert that has little to offer.
In some ways I agree with you, and in some ways I don't, but you left one question unanswered, ie you said "My kids also have dual citizenships. Will they ever want to move back and live in Greece? Very unlikely, and I'd probably advise them against it!" Why would you advise against it? Surely it would be appropriate for them to decide and you aught to give them the pro's and cons to guide them? Your response seems to imply (to your kids) in a predetermined way, it is not cool to be Greek, though we all very well know that you as a person is very pro Greek. (a question of mixed messages perhaps).Just so their is no misunderstanding, I'm questioning the "impression" you might be giving to your kids - not necessarily directed at you, but an open question to all those immigrant greeks out there, myself included.
And as for your comments about the greek doctor, yes its truly admirable, but I raise a question, concerning your perception or definition of "successful greek". I feel there are various levels of success, and, yes, in financial terms, maybe, [u]maybe{/u], you are right, but then..... well its an open question for debate
I said " I will adivise against it", as in giving them the pros and cons and showing them that the cons far outweigh the pros at this point.
You have to remeber that these kids were born and raised in Canada. Their lifestyle is already much much different than the lifestyle of most kids in Greece. Living permanently in Greece would be a cultural shock for them at this point. I was born and raised in Greece, yet I find it almost impossible to live there today after living abroad for a little bit over 10 years! There is no comparisson in the standard of living, opportunities etc.
Money is not everything, but for young people who want to have a chance to a career, Greece is a place with limited opportunities (except if your last name is Papandreou or Karamanlis and such...).
I would definitely consider to retire in Greece, and I always go back for vacations. Greece is, and will always be, my homeland. However, if you take the "sentimental factor" out of the equation one must be stupid to return to Greece permanently! (and yes, I know of many "stupid" people who did and either returned back to Canada since, or they're still in Greece crying about their choice...).
Saying all this...Most of us Greeks dream of eventually going back home, and I can't be any different. I would consider a move back home if I could be guaranteed a job that would offer a financial safe future for me and my family. However, since I know that this is an impossible dream I don't even want to entertain the thought of moving back and live my life like most Greeks abroad, dreaming for a day that will never come.
Quoted from jen, posted October 12th, 2007, 4:27pm at here
will dual citizenship ever be denied to second and third generaion Greeks?
As long as one of the parents is a Greek citizen (or dual Greek-Australian) then the kids can have dual citizenship as well. Ask your local embassy or consulate to make sure!
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Well answered admin.
But allow me to throw a spanner in the woodpile.
firstly, the culture shock argument. You are born and bred Greek. Right? You went to Canada. Don't tell me that wasn't a bit of a culture shock as well. But you adapted. So will you kids, IF the decide to go back to Greece for a career or for whatever other reasons.
Secondly, What I find strange, and I bring forward "facts" according to my uncle who is in the shipping business in Greece, besides all the Albanians, Bularians, Roumanians, and the rest of the "-anians", there are many Germans, Frech Anglos, etc coming into the top jobs of the corporations/conglomerates. And my argument is HOW COME? Personally, i think maybe all the competent Greeks have booked out and there is nobody left
But seriously, there are plenty of opportunities everywhere. It all depends on what you are looking for. And what you are prepared to do for it. Yes Greece has its problems, and "business" is.....lets say different. I remember a scathing article I read in one of the Greek newspapers via internet, (I think it was ÂÞìá or Íåá) about the ridiculous difficulties of registering an new company - they had an example of an architect trying to start his own business, and 6 months later, many visits to the bureaucratic institutes, this license and that license, etc. He finally managed to open office. Royal pain in the a** how the civil service tries to justify their jobs (Eve seen or read Asterix - don't remåmber the episode but he had a wonderful dig at roman bureaucracy how appropriate: åìáéåó ïé Ñùìéïß). The point is he succeeded, despite the difficulties.
And then their is my uncle, now engulfed deeply into the corporate world. A Simle man straight out of the village, Did his dues on the high sees, travelled the world, reached to the point of commandeering huge tankers, and now delving with the hootie tootie. From where? ÐåéñáéÜ.
The point is again. Opportunities are everywhere. even Greece. Again. I emphasize. Its what "you" want and what are you prepared to sacrifice.
Each person has that choice. Some succeed some not. some make further choices. eg. A cousin, who grew up part of his life in Africa, left Canada, an immigrated to Australia. Why? A Job offer. Now shackled and has a bundle of joy. And here is when the differences comes in. Once the little ones come in, a self imposed restriction comes into play. The roulette of life falls by the side, mostly for the benefit of the new team, the family unit, and self imposed restrictions come into play. Restrictions that allow us to "justify" our decisions. And that, i Think is why people, like you and me, find it difficult to "go back home".
On the other hand, we have to take te next generation into consideration. How often I see Greek parents, or at least the Greek parent in mixed marriages, not speaking to their kids in Greek, and hoping that Greek school will do the trick. (Big fat Greek wedding emphasized this element of the foreign Greek culture). What I'm saying is: saying that was is proudly greek, and living it and "passing on" that feeling....well... to say the least, is damn difficult. Some give up and integrate, others are stubborn arrogant mules, but most are somewhere in between
You can count me as one of the stubborn arrogant mules
My eldest son (he's 5 and a half) speaks Greek fluently, the other one (he's 2 and a half) doesn't talk much yet, but he's already started with many Greek words.
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Now why do these words ring so true to my ears? Maybe they know something back home they don't want to share? he he he
but seriously. let me tell you a little story, that i personally witnessed.
Both parents second generation greeks. two sisters, pre-teens Sibling rivalry in full swing. Mother trying to keep her sanity, while controlling the situation. (all this in english by the way). At one point one child blurts out in anger, "she's got the devil in her", mother is horrified, and smacks the little one. "how dare you talk like that about your sister. Who taught you that? your friends ....yakka yakka.."
And I packed up laughing.
The mother got angry with me. THIS IS NOT A LAUGHING MATTER!!!!
Ok I said. When her papou said to you about your daughter "Å÷åé ôï äéáïëï ìÝóá ôçò", (as in very active, bright, coming up with intriguing questions well above her age, .... or variations thereof, as we in Greece might use that expression), does that change your perspective of whats going on here?
She was stunned.
"Now start talking and being Greek a little more, and I walked off.
Appropriate? I don't know. But I think there is a lesson in this incident somehow.
Quoted from jen, posted October 16th, 2007, 6:05pm at here
as the saying goes --> we (outside Greece) live to work, Greeks in Greece work to live
This is not entirely true.
Most of my friends back home struggle to make a living (granted that most of them do not have an education other than high school).
Some of them have to work long hours, make very little money, spend very little - if any - time with their kids and wife, and their nights out with friends have become very limited. Whenever I go back home and visit them they're all asking me jokingly if I can take them with me to "America".
Sure, from where we are it seems that most people in Greece have a great life (the idealized Greece that I was talking about in a previous post...), but unfortunately the truth is very far from this in most cases.
I remeber when I was a kid that things were quite a bit different. I grew up in a blue collar neighborhood in Pirea. We were not poor by any means, and there was always plenty of food on the table, but we did not have much money to spare on "luxuries" either. However we did enjoy life and my parents made sure that every summer we would spend a month together vacationing in some island or seaside village somewhere in Greece. They would make sure to put aside enough money every year so this one month (or 2-3 weeks) would be a good experience for all of us, where we could have ice-cream everyday, eat out, and enjoy our summer vacation.
Very few people can do this in Greece today, only those who are well off. Life in Greece has changed to the worse for the average Greek. I know people in their late 30s who still live with their parents because they can't afford to live on their own! And things are getting worse as the years go by. When our parents generation (that still supports their kids financially!) goes then we'll see big troubles in Greek society.
I can see troubles coming in the next 15-20 years...
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Greek Immigrants - So what does being Greek mean? 
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, I know more than most people about Greek history, mythology and culture.
. The man was, to say the least very disappointed. But did he say "F Greece, I'm off" ? Well, yeah to the first part. He went to thessaloniki, joint the university hospital there, and changed it around to such an extent, that it is now held in very high esteem.
I just looooove fishing!!! Its all in the bait
